Varsho/Moreno/Kirk Discussion Thread

[Randle McMurphy]

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Incredible.

Does that mean we should get him injured again so he comes back even better?

Well the evidence suggests he's effectively like a Saiyan warrior. As I recall, Vegeta purposely had Krillin injure him in order to get strong enough to fight Frieza during the Namek Saga.

Is Varsho doing something similar? We may never know.

[PushDaRock]

Read on Twitter

Incredible.

Does that mean we should get him injured again so he comes back even better?

Well the evidence suggests he's effectively like a Saiyan warrior. As I recall, Vegeta purposely had Krillin injure him in order to get strong enough to fight Frieza during the Namek Saga.

Is Varsho doing something similar? We may never know.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!!!

[Randle McMurphy]

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The real MVP.

[brwnman]

Fairly routine plays for any good defensive CF. But it’ll be hard to win GG when you’re giving up 5 runs per week because of your arm in the OF.

[Harry Palmer]

Anyone think Varsho should bunt for a hit more often? I mean when the circumstances are right.

[Randle McMurphy]

Anyone think Varsho should bunt for a hit note often? I mean when the circumstances are right.

Against lefties without runners on? Makes a lot of sense in that scenario like yesterday.

I want him swinging with runners on though.

[Harry Palmer]

Anyone think Varsho should bunt for a hit note often? I mean when the circumstances are right.

Against lefties without runners on? Makes a lot of sense in that scenario like yesterday.

I want him swinging with runners on though.

Agreed generally, maybe some exceptions where a sac bunt might otherwise be a consideration.

[Vampirate]

Looking back this is easily one of the best moves the FO has made.

Would you rather have a Varsho Center + Kirk Catcher

Or would you have a Moreno + Kirk catcher duo+ Lourdes Gurriel Jr? (one of the catchers would have to be traded eventually.

WAR for all Diamondbacks this year = Moreno 1.6, + Gurriel Jr 0.2, = 1.8 WAR

Varsho alone = 2.7 WAR (60 games, 7.29 WAR Pace, though he'd probably end up at a 5-6 WAR realistically)

[brwnman]

Looking back this is easily one of the best moves the FO has made.

Would you rather have a Varsho Center + Kirk Catcher

Or would you have a Moreno + Kirk catcher duo+ Lourdes Gurriel Jr? (one of the catchers would have to be traded eventually.

WAR for all Diamondbacks this year = Moreno 1.6, + Gurriel Jr 0.2, = 1.8 WAR

Varsho alone = 2.7 WAR (60 games, 7.29 WAR Pace, though he'd probably end up at a 5-6 WAR realistically)

‘Easily.’

2.7 fWAR for Moreno this year. 2.2fWAR for Varsho this year. Not taking into account years of control or salary.

Delusion/Copium is real.

[Vampirate]

Looking back this is easily one of the best moves the FO has made.

Would you rather have a Varsho Center + Kirk Catcher

Or would you have a Moreno + Kirk catcher duo+ Lourdes Gurriel Jr? (one of the catchers would have to be traded eventually.

WAR for all Diamondbacks this year = Moreno 1.6, + Gurriel Jr 0.2, = 1.8 WAR

Varsho alone = 2.7 WAR (60 games, 7.29 WAR Pace, though he'd probably end up at a 5-6 WAR realistically)

‘Easily.’

2.7 fWAR for Moreno this year. 2.2fWAR for Varsho this year. Not taking into account years of control or salary.

Delusion/Copium is real.

I should have looked into games played, Moreno has only played 71 games thus far. adjusting for a 162 game schedule Varsho was on a 5.94 fWAR pace, Moreno was on a 6.08 fWAR pace

The issue is, Moreno wouldn't be getting playing time unless we're trading Kirk who's only a year older. Kirk himself is on a 5.67 fWAR pace...wow we sure did nail the catcher position in the draft.

I'd still say the trade is easily a win because let's face it either Kirk or Moreno would be having a great year elsewhere (we'd have to choose between the 2 at similar age and position), and we got a 5 WAR player back regardless in a premium position (though Varsho is a terrible hitter, i'm not buying that .871 OPS what soever).

This is one of those trades where both teams can't really complain imo.

Also WAR is an odd stat, it changes depending on what type of WAR is being used.

[Randle McMurphy]

Looking back this is easily one of the best moves the FO has made.

Would you rather have a Varsho Center + Kirk Catcher

Or would you have a Moreno + Kirk catcher duo+ Lourdes Gurriel Jr? (one of the catchers would have to be traded eventually.

WAR for all Diamondbacks this year = Moreno 1.6, + Gurriel Jr 0.2, = 1.8 WAR

Varsho alone = 2.7 WAR (60 games, 7.29 WAR Pace, though he'd probably end up at a 5-6 WAR realistically)

I would go so far as to say that it is one of the best trades in franchise history right now given how those two and the team are performing this year.

They chose the better catcher and got the best player in the deal by far. Massive win.

[Vampirate]

Looking back this is easily one of the best moves the FO has made.

Would you rather have a Varsho Center + Kirk Catcher

Or would you have a Moreno + Kirk catcher duo+ Lourdes Gurriel Jr? (one of the catchers would have to be traded eventually.

WAR for all Diamondbacks this year = Moreno 1.6, + Gurriel Jr 0.2, = 1.8 WAR

Varsho alone = 2.7 WAR (60 games, 7.29 WAR Pace, though he'd probably end up at a 5-6 WAR realistically)

I would go so far as to say that it is one of the best trades in franchise history right now given how those two and the team are performing this year.

They chose the better catcher and got the best player in the deal by far. Massive win.

The trade was good, but there's been way better in franchise history.

[PushDaRock]

Looking back this is easily one of the best moves the FO has made.

Would you rather have a Varsho Center + Kirk Catcher

Or would you have a Moreno + Kirk catcher duo+ Lourdes Gurriel Jr? (one of the catchers would have to be traded eventually.

WAR for all Diamondbacks this year = Moreno 1.6, + Gurriel Jr 0.2, = 1.8 WAR

Varsho alone = 2.7 WAR (60 games, 7.29 WAR Pace, though he'd probably end up at a 5-6 WAR realistically)

I would go so far as to say that it is one of the best trades in franchise history right now given how those two and the team are performing this year.

They chose the better catcher and got the best player in the deal by far. Massive win.

The Bautista and Donaldson trades are obviously way better

We literally got Bautista for Robinzon Diaz lol

[Randle McMurphy]

Looking back this is easily one of the best moves the FO has made.

Would you rather have a Varsho Center + Kirk Catcher

Or would you have a Moreno + Kirk catcher duo+ Lourdes Gurriel Jr? (one of the catchers would have to be traded eventually.

WAR for all Diamondbacks this year = Moreno 1.6, + Gurriel Jr 0.2, = 1.8 WAR

Varsho alone = 2.7 WAR (60 games, 7.29 WAR Pace, though he'd probably end up at a 5-6 WAR realistically)

I would go so far as to say that it is one of the best trades in franchise history right now given how those two and the team are performing this year.

They chose the better catcher and got the best player in the deal by far. Massive win.

The Bautista and Donaldson trades are obviously way better

We literally got Bautista for Robinzon Diaz lol

That’s fair enough, but what if Varsho and Kirk lead us to a WS?

[Vampirate]

I would go so far as to say that it is one of the best trades in franchise history right now given how those two and the team are performing this year.

They chose the better catcher and got the best player in the deal by far. Massive win.

The Bautista and Donaldson trades are obviously way better

We literally got Bautista for Robinzon Diaz lol

That’s fair enough, but what if Varsho and Kirk lead us to a WS?

That's conditional on a result, but player for player, there's been way better.

AA somehow unloading Vernon Wells contract, the Joey Bats trade tec.

[raptorforlife88]

There's really no reason to argue the trade in terms of quality. Both teams made out well here and got what they needed. A nice win win trade. Clearly both Moreno and Varsho are quality players.

Also yeah the Jays have way too many incredible trades for this one to rank very high. Bautista and Donaldson are immediately two that come to mind from just recent memory. The surplus value on those trades is insane, especially the Bautista one, but the Donaldson one is the reason we finally made it back to the playoffs.

Going back further obviously you have the Alomar/Carter for Fernandez/McGriff but the players we have up were also incredible.

The Devon White deal was a robbery as well.

[PushDaRock]

I would go so far as to say that it is one of the best trades in franchise history right now given how those two and the team are performing this year.

They chose the better catcher and got the best player in the deal by far. Massive win.

The Bautista and Donaldson trades are obviously way better

We literally got Bautista for Robinzon Diaz lol

That’s fair enough, but what if Varsho and Kirk lead us to a WS?

Would we have lost the trade if the Diamondbacks won the WS in 2023?

[Randle McMurphy]

The Bautista and Donaldson trades are obviously way better

We literally got Bautista for Robinzon Diaz lol

That’s fair enough, but what if Varsho and Kirk lead us to a WS?

Would we have lost the trade if the Diamondbacks won the WS in 2023?

That’s what many were saying in this thread, as I recall.

[PushDaRock]

That’s fair enough, but what if Varsho and Kirk lead us to a WS?

Would we have lost the trade if the Diamondbacks won the WS in 2023?

That’s what many were saying in this thread, as I recall.

Well, if that's the measuring stick then they're still winning the trade considering they made it to the WS while we haven't even won a Wild Card game.