Magic and Bird Plus Minus Numbers

[Djoker]

^Great stuff Draymond!

I updated the Bird numbers for the 1986 Finals.

1986 Finals vs. Rockets

Bird ON: 112.9 ORtg, 103.0 DRtg, +10.0 Net
Bird OFF: 96.7 ORtg, 141.1 DRtg, -44.4 Net
Bird ON-OFF: +16.2 ORtg, -38.1 DRtg, +54.3 Net

Having watched a few games from this series a while back, I definitely came away with the impression that Bird was the best player on the court. So your breakdown of what happened seems accurate to me. In terms of Bird's defense, I think his positioning was amazing. As you said, he lacked in verticality which is a valid concern but his very presence often deterred drives, drew charges, led to confusion/turnovers... And he's one of those guys who would usually be in the right place at the right time.

I also await your Hakeem plus minus data. From the very limited samples I've seen (pretty much just Finals games), Hakeem's plus minus doesn't look too inspiring but that's just a very small sample. Also if there are any games you can't get a hold of, let me know and I may be able to help.

[homecourtloss]

1986 Celtics vs Hawks ECSF Game 1

1st quarter: Bird plays the entire first, 30-23 Celtics

2nd quarter: Bird sits the first 2:44 of second, Celtics outscored 2-4, lead 32-27
Celtics lead 52-46 at the half; 50-42 with bird, 2-4 without

3rd: bird plays all of the 3rd, Celtics lead 86-63; 84-59 without Wade bird, 2-4 without

4th: Bird sits to begin the 4th. Never comes back in. Celtics lead 97-74 at the 6:53 mark and then brining in the deep bench. Hawks go on a 17-6 run to close.

Bird in: 33 minutes 16 seconds played: 84-59
Bird out: 17 minutes and 44 seconds: 19-32

[homecourtloss]

1986 ECSF Celtics vs Hawks Game 1

Spoiler:

1st quarter: Bird plays the entire first, 30-23 Celtics

2nd quarter: Bird sits the first 2:44 of second, Celtics outscored 2-4, lead 32-27
Celtics lead 52-46 at the half; 50-42 with bird, 2-4 without

3rd: bird plays all of the 3rd, Celtics lead 86-63; 84-59 without Wade bird, 2-4 without

4th: Bird sits to begin the 4th. Never comes back in. Celtics lead 97-74 at the 6:53 mark and then brining in the deep bench. Hawks go on a 17-6 run to close.

Bird in: 33 minutes 16 seconds played: 84-59
Bird out: 17 minutes and 44 seconds: 19-32

1986 ECSF Celtics vs. Hawks Game 2

Spoiler:

First quarter: bird plays the entire first quarter, 36-31 Celtics

Second quarter: bird begins the quarter on the floor. Sits at about the 9:40 mark up 42-37

6-4 Celtics with Bird off, 48-41

65-51 Celtics at the half

Third quarter: bird plays the entire third quarter: 94-82 Celtics

Fourth quarter: bird starts the quarter on the bench.

2-2
4-2
4-4
6-4
6-6
8-6
8-8
10-8
10-10 [All 10 points by Robert Parrish; eight of the Atlanta 10 points created by spud Webb. Boston could not contain at all, even after made baskets.]

Bird comes back in.

Hawks eventually cut the lead to 0ne, 109-108, Celtics. Bird makes some tough shots.

119-108

Bird in: 42 minutes: 103-94 Celtics
Bird out: 6 minutes: 16-14 Celtics

1986 ECSF Celtics vs. Hawks Game 3

Spoiler:

1st quarter: Bird plays the entire 1st: 34-31 Celtics

2nd quarter: Bird comes out at around the 9 minute mark (this is the Celtics’ broadcast team and they never show the time). 40-38 Celtics

7-0 Celtics, 47-38 Celtics with 8:22 left in the half
7-2 Celtics
9-2, 49-40 Celtics
9-4, 49-42 Celtics
9-6, 49-44 Celtics, 7:05 left in half
9-8, 49-46 Celtics
11-8, 51-46 Celtics
11-10, 51-48 Celtics
13-10, 53-48 Celtics

Bird Checks back in

Bird plays the rest of the half
64-60 Celtics

3rd quarter Bird plays all of 3rd quarter, 88-87 Celtics
4th quarter: Bird plays all of the 4th quarter, 111-107 Celtics

Bird in: 45 minutes, 98-97 Celtics
Bird out: 3 minutes, 13-10 Celtics

1986 ECSF Celtics vs Hawks Game 4

Spoiler:

1st quarter: Bird plays the entire 1st: 24-29 hawks

2nd quarter: Bird plays first 2:24: 30-32 hawks, 9:36; Bird sits
Celtics outscore Hawks 7-6 in the 2:47 Bird sits, 6:49 left in 2nd, 37-38 Hawks
Bird plays the rest of the Quarter, 51-50 Celtics

3rd quarter: Bird plays entire 3rd quarter; 74-79 Hawks

4th quarter: Bird begins the quarter and then sits at about the 10:50 mark. Hard to say for sure since they don’t show the clock until the 9:20 mark in the 4th.

2-2 in this time bird sits, 76-81 Hawks

Bird back at 9:20

Bird sits at :46 seconds left, 94-104 hawks, hawks outscore the Celtics 0-2, 94-106 final

Bird in: 42 minutes and 57 seconds: 85-96 Hawks
Bird out: 5 minutes and 3 seconds: 9-10 Hawks

Note: the official box score has Bird playing 42 minutes because of how they rounded the minites. The 2:47 he sat in the 2nd became 3:00, the 1 30 he sat in the fourth became 2:00, and the last :46 he sat in the court at the end of the game became 1:00.

1986 ECSF Game 5 Celtics vs Hawks

Spoiler:

1st quarter: Bird plays the entire quarter, 32-27 Celtics

2nd quarter: Bird begins the quarter in the floor

Bird comes out at around the 10:00 mark (no time shown), 36-30 Celtics

1-0 Celtics, 37-30, Celtics
1-3 Celtics, 37-33 Celtics
3-3, 39-33 Celtics (beautiful baseline spin move by Walton)
3-5, 39-35 Celtics

Bird comes back in

Celtics 66-55 at the half

3rd quarter: Bird plays the entire quarter, 102-61 Celtics, the famous 36-6 quarter—Celtics score the final 24 points of the quarter.

4th quarter: Bird begins the quarter on the floor. 9-12 Hawks

21-26 Hawks the rest of the quarter

Bird in: 39 minutes: 108-68 Celtics
Bird out 9 minutes 24-31 Hawks

We only need the ECSF vs. Hawks tracked at this point to complete 1986 Bird! I would appreciate if someone else volunteers to track that series. I'm busy with the Showtime Lakers and I don't want to stop! I can share the game footage if it's not on YT already.

1986 ECR1 vs. Bulls

Bird ON: 126.2 ORtg, 106.0 DRtg, +20.3 Net
Bird OFF: 84.7 ORtg, 125.7 DRtg, -41.0 Net
Bird ON-OFF: +41.5 ORtg, -19.7 DRtg, +61.2 Net

1986 ECF vs. Bucks

Bird ON: 116.3 ORtg, 101.2 DRtg, +15.1 Net
Bird OFF: 120.6 ORtg, 107.0 DRtg, +13.6 Net
Bird ON-OFF: -4.3 ORtg, -5.8 DRtg, +1.5 Net

1986 Finals vs. Rockets

Bird ON: 112.9 ORtg, 103.0 DRtg, +10.0 Net
Bird OFF: 96.7 ORtg, 141.1 DRtg, -44.4 Net
Bird ON-OFF: +16.2 ORtg, -38.1 DRtg, +54.3 Net

@Djoker All of Bird's 1986 playoffs are now complete.

[Djoker]

Alright here are all the playoff numbers for 1985 and 1986 Bird. Updated the spreadsheet.



ORtg (rORtg) with Bird ON

1985 CLE: 107.0 (-1.7)
1985 DET: 118.5 (+11.3)
1985 PHI: 106.8 (-0.5)
1985 LAL: 108.6 (+1.6)
1986 CHI: 126.2 (+13.8)
1986 ATL: 116.6 (+11.0)
1986 MIL: 116.3 (+13.6)
1986 HOU: 112.9 (+5.3)

1985 Playoffs: 110.8 (+3.2)
1986 Playoffs: 116.6 (+9.5)

[DraymondGold]

Alright here are all the playoff numbers for 1985 and 1986 Bird. Updated the spreadsheet.



ORtg (rORtg) with Bird ON

1985 CLE: 107.0 (-1.7)
1985 DET: 118.5 (+11.3)
1985 PHI: 106.8 (-0.5)
1985 LAL: 108.6 (+1.6)
1986 CHI: 126.2 (+13.8)
1986 ATL: 116.6 (+11.0)
1986 MIL: 116.3 (+13.6)
1986 HOU: 112.9 (+5.3)

1985 Playoffs: 110.8 (+3.2)
1986 Playoffs: 116.6 (+9.5)

Wow, fantastic stuff! Thanks to both of you for helping do the tracking

By the way Djoker, can you remind me what the column labels are for the table? Looks like some of them got cropped out.

[Djoker]

Alright here are all the playoff numbers for 1985 and 1986 Bird. Updated the spreadsheet.



ORtg (rORtg) with Bird ON

1985 CLE: 107.0 (-1.7)
1985 DET: 118.5 (+11.3)
1985 PHI: 106.8 (-0.5)
1985 LAL: 108.6 (+1.6)
1986 CHI: 126.2 (+13.8)
1986 ATL: 116.6 (+11.0)
1986 MIL: 116.3 (+13.6)
1986 HOU: 112.9 (+5.3)

1985 Playoffs: 110.8 (+3.2)
1986 Playoffs: 116.6 (+9.5)

Wow, fantastic stuff! Thanks to both of you for helping do the tracking

By the way Djoker, can you remind me what the column labels are for the table? Looks like some of them got cropped out.

The image is fixed. The column headings are there now!

[homecourtloss]

Alright here are all the playoff numbers for 1985 and 1986 Bird. Updated the spreadsheet.



ORtg (rORtg) with Bird ON

1985 CLE: 107.0 (-1.7)
1985 DET: 118.5 (+11.3)
1985 PHI: 106.8 (-0.5)
1985 LAL: 108.6 (+1.6)
1986 CHI: 126.2 (+13.8)
1986 ATL: 116.6 (+11.0)
1986 MIL: 116.3 (+13.6)
1986 HOU: 112.9 (+5.3)

1985 Playoffs: 110.8 (+3.2)
1986 Playoffs: 116.6 (+9.5)

Wow, fantastic stuff! Thanks to both of you for helping do the tracking

By the way Djoker, can you remind me what the column labels are for the table? Looks like some of them got cropped out.

1986 Bird is an all-time run.

rNRtg On court ( rORtg - rDRtg)
(this list is not exhaustive – for magic, bird, and Jordan I used Djoker's numbers)

2017 Curry: +17.9, -4.0, +21.9
2001 Kobe: +13.5, -8,1, +21.6
1999 DRob: +8.1, -13.3, +21.4
2014 Manu: +11.0, -10.0, +21.0
2017 Draymond: +11.1, -9.7, +20.8
1996 Jordan: +9.7, -10.6, +20.3
1985 Kareem: +20.1, +10.2, -9.8
2001 Shaq: +11.5, -8.2, +19.7
2017 Durant: +17.2, -2.1, +19.3
2016 LeBron: +13.4, -5.8, +19.2
1985 Magic: +8.5, -9.4, +17.9
1991 Jordan: +13.3, -4.2, +17.5
2018 Curry: +6.6, -10.9, +17.5
1986 Bird: +9.5, -7.5, +17.0
2018 Durant: +8.3, -8.6, +16.9
2015 Draymond: +5.2, -10.6, +15.8
1982 Magic: +9.1, -6.6, +15.7
2011 Dirk: +7.8, -6.8, +14.6
2009 Kobe: +8.4, -6.2, +14.6
2008 KG: +5.3, -8.4, +13.7
2003 Duncan: +3.4, -10.2, +13.5
2019 Kawhi: +5.3, -7.9, +13.2
2021 Giannis: -.4, -11.6, +11.2
2023 Jokic: +7.4, -3.0, +10.3

rNRtg ON - OFF
(not exhaustive)

+42.7, 1999 DRob: +21.4 ON, -21.3 OFF (-16.8 rORtg, +4.5 rDRtg)

+33.7, 1982 Magic: +15.8 ON, -17.9 OFF (-6.4 rORtg, +11.6 rDRtg)

+33.2, 1986 Bird: +17.0 ON, -15.9 OFF (-3.7 rORtg, +12.3 rDRtg)

+27.1, 2017 Curry: +22.0 ON, -5.1 OFF (-13.2 rORtg, -8.1 rDRtg)

+27.0, 2003 Duncan: +13.5 ON, -13.5 OFF (-14.2 rORtg, -.8 rDRtg)

+26.9, 2012 LeBron: +14.3 ON, -12.6 OFF (-10.4 rORtg, +2.2 rDRtg)

+25.5, 1997 Jordan: +15.6 ON, -9.9 OFF (-2.4 rORtg, + 7.5 rDRtg)

+23.2, 2011 Dirk: +14.6 ON, -9.2 OFF (-14.2 rORtg, -4.9 rDRtg)

+22.9, 2000 Shaq: +10.0 ON, -12.9 OFF (-5.1 rORtg, +7.8 rDRtg)

+22.5, 1985 Kareem: +20.1 ON, -2.4 OFF (-5.6 rORtg, -3.1 rDRtg)

+22.0, 1996 Jordan: +20.3 ON, -1.7 OFF (-3.0 rORtg, -1.3 rDRtg)

+21.8, 1985 Magic: +17.9 ON, -3.9 OFF (-5.7 rORtg, -3.9 rDRtg)

+21.0, 2008 Kevin Garnett: +13.7 ON, -7.3 OFF (-12.7 rORtg, -5.5 rDRtg)

+ 19.9, 2016 LeBron: +19.2 ON, -.7 OFF (-2.6 rORtg, -1.9 rDRtg)

+18.3, 2001 Kobe : +21.6 ON, +3.4 OFF (-4.4 rORtg , -7.7 rDRtg)

+15.7, 2020 LeBron: +12.7 ON, -3.0 OFF (-1.4 rORtg, +1.6 rDRtg)

+ 14.8 1993 Jordan: +13.5 ON, -1.3 OFF (-18.7 rORtg , -17.4 rDRtg)

+14.7, 1998 Jordan: +15.3 ON, +.6 OFF (-9.7 rORtg , -10.3 rDRtg)

+11.7, 1991 Jordan: +17.5 ON, +5.8 OFF (-1.6 rORtg , -7.4 rDRtg)

+1.5 2013 LeBron: +10.3 ON, +8.7 OFF (-3.5 rORtg, -12.3 rDRtg)

+1.3, 1992 Jordan: +10.2 ON, +8.9 OFF (+5.9 rORtg , -3.0 rDRtg)

+1.1, 2001 Shaq: +19.7 ON, +18.5 OFF (+13.7 rORtg , -4.8 rDRtg)

[homecourtloss]

.

Do you know what accounts is for the discrepancy between your encore ratings and the ones BKREF has?



For example, here you have Jordan at +9.5 on court in 1997 and +10.3 and 1998 but BKREF has him at +8.8? obviously you're going to have some possession discrepancies but 8.8 and 10.3 are pretty far off.

[Djoker]

.

Do you know what accounts is for the discrepancy between your encore ratings and the ones BKREF has?



For example, here you have Jordan at +9.5 on court in 1997 and +10.3 and 1998 but BKREF has him at +8.8? obviously you're going to have some possession discrepancies but 8.8 and 10.3 are pretty far off.

I calculated the 1997 and 1998 ratings using raw numbers, minutes and pace just like I did for 1985-1996 numbers. For example, for 1997, +136 * 48/803 * 100/85.5 = +9.5 Net.

By the way, the 1997 and 1998 ratings on B-Ref do not fit. If you take a weighted average by possessions of the B-Ref Net Rating with Jordan ON and Jordan OFF, you'll get a much lower result than the overall Bulls Team Net Rating. The NBA.com data for Jordan ON is +9.0 Net for 1997 and +10.2 Net for 1998 for what it's worth. And unlike B-Ref, it actually fits their overall team data pretty well.

I've noticed in general that NBA.com and PBP Stats ON-OFF numbers are more reliable and more reproducible than B-Ref. And B-Ref also doesn't have the data broken down by individual series.

[Djoker]

Fantastic work, I hope to see 1983 playoffs numbers from Showtime duo at some point. Always felt that it was the turning point in their dynamics, so it would be interesting to see the data.

Ok so I finished logging the 1983 playoffs for Showtime and man oh man did Kareem kick some ass!

Magic was just +27 in 643 minutes while Kareem was +83 in 588 minutes. And honestly the eye test supports that. Kareem was just phenomenal in these playoffs. Unstoppable scoring, amazing passing while also providing serious rim deterrence. Even commentators keep talking about how opponents were suddenly free to attack the basket when Kareem sat and how he's a great passer. He found so many cutters like Wilkes and Coopers for layups. Monster!

1983 Postseason (15 games)

Magic ON Kareem ON: 113.5 ORtg, 106.8 DRtg, +6.7 Net (534.7 minutes)
Magic ON Kareem OFF: 94.5 ORtg, 115.6 DRtg, -21.1 Net (108.3 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem ON: 99.1 ORtg, 92.0 DRtg, +7.1 Net (53.3 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem OFF: 74.8 ORtg, 119.6 DRtg, -44.9 Net (28.7 minutes)

I also added the 1985 playoff run to the dataset so there is now 61 playoff games of Magic/Kareem data.

1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985 Postseasons (61 games)

Magic ON Kareem ON: 116.6 ORtg, 104.4 DRtg, +12.2 Net (1971.6 minutes)
Magic ON Kareem OFF: 100.9 ORtg, 104.1 DRtg, -3.2 Net (509.4 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem ON: 100.9 ORtg, 108.9 DRtg, -8.0 Net (268.5 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem OFF: 104.8 ORtg, 126.6 DRtg, -21.9 Net (231.5 minutes)

Spreadsheet is also updated up to 1983.

I plan to take a little break before resuming my tracking of 1984 and beyond. I have 20/21 games for the 1984 playoffs (Game 3 vs. Dallas is nowhere to be found) but a couple of my games are partials which is really annoying. I'll find upgraded versions of these games before I resume tracking.

[70sFan]

Fantastic work, I hope to see 1983 playoffs numbers from Showtime duo at some point. Always felt that it was the turning point in their dynamics, so it would be interesting to see the data.

Ok so I finished logging the 1983 playoffs for Showtime and man oh man did Kareem kick some ass!

Magic was just +27 in 643 minutes while Kareem was +83 in 588 minutes. And honestly the eye test supports that. Kareem was just phenomenal in these playoffs. Unstoppable scoring, amazing passing while also providing serious rim deterrence. Even commentators keep talking about how opponents were suddenly free to attack the basket when Kareem sat and how he's a great passer. He found so many cutters like Wilkes and Coopers for layups. Monster!

1983 Postseason (15 games)

Magic ON Kareem ON: 113.5 ORtg, 106.8 DRtg, +6.7 Net (534.7 minutes)
Magic ON Kareem OFF: 94.5 ORtg, 115.6 DRtg, -21.1 Net (108.3 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem ON: 99.1 ORtg, 92.0 DRtg, +7.1 Net (53.3 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem OFF: 74.8 ORtg, 119.6 DRtg, -44.9 Net (28.7 minutes)

I also added the 1985 playoff run to the dataset so there is now 61 playoff games of Magic/Kareem data.

1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985 Postseasons (61 games)

Magic ON Kareem ON: 116.6 ORtg, 104.4 DRtg, +12.2 Net (1971.6 minutes)
Magic ON Kareem OFF: 100.9 ORtg, 104.1 DRtg, -3.2 Net (509.4 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem ON: 100.9 ORtg, 108.9 DRtg, -8.0 Net (268.5 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem OFF: 104.8 ORtg, 126.6 DRtg, -21.9 Net (231.5 minutes)

Spreadsheet is also updated up to 1983.

I plan to take a little break before resuming my tracking of 1984 and beyond. I have 20/21 games for the 1984 playoffs (Game 3 vs. Dallas is nowhere to be found) but a couple of my games are partials which is really annoying. I'll find upgraded versions of these games before I resume tracking.

Fantastic, thank you! I am not surprised that Kareem looks this good, because I watched the 1983 run very closely. Your data also supports my take on Magic playing very subpar series in the finals.

May I ask you if your G1 of the 1983 WCF is a full game?

[Djoker]

Fantastic work, I hope to see 1983 playoffs numbers from Showtime duo at some point. Always felt that it was the turning point in their dynamics, so it would be interesting to see the data.

Ok so I finished logging the 1983 playoffs for Showtime and man oh man did Kareem kick some ass!

Magic was just +27 in 643 minutes while Kareem was +83 in 588 minutes. And honestly the eye test supports that. Kareem was just phenomenal in these playoffs. Unstoppable scoring, amazing passing while also providing serious rim deterrence. Even commentators keep talking about how opponents were suddenly free to attack the basket when Kareem sat and how he's a great passer. He found so many cutters like Wilkes and Coopers for layups. Monster!

1983 Postseason (15 games)

Magic ON Kareem ON: 113.5 ORtg, 106.8 DRtg, +6.7 Net (534.7 minutes)
Magic ON Kareem OFF: 94.5 ORtg, 115.6 DRtg, -21.1 Net (108.3 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem ON: 99.1 ORtg, 92.0 DRtg, +7.1 Net (53.3 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem OFF: 74.8 ORtg, 119.6 DRtg, -44.9 Net (28.7 minutes)

I also added the 1985 playoff run to the dataset so there is now 61 playoff games of Magic/Kareem data.

1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985 Postseasons (61 games)

Magic ON Kareem ON: 116.6 ORtg, 104.4 DRtg, +12.2 Net (1971.6 minutes)
Magic ON Kareem OFF: 100.9 ORtg, 104.1 DRtg, -3.2 Net (509.4 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem ON: 100.9 ORtg, 108.9 DRtg, -8.0 Net (268.5 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem OFF: 104.8 ORtg, 126.6 DRtg, -21.9 Net (231.5 minutes)

Spreadsheet is also updated up to 1983.

I plan to take a little break before resuming my tracking of 1984 and beyond. I have 20/21 games for the 1984 playoffs (Game 3 vs. Dallas is nowhere to be found) but a couple of my games are partials which is really annoying. I'll find upgraded versions of these games before I resume tracking.

Fantastic, thank you! I am not surprised that Kareem looks this good, because I watched the 1983 run very closely. Your data also supports my take on Magic playing very subpar series in the finals.

May I ask you if your G1 of the 1983 WCF is a full game?

Game 1 of the 1983 WCF starts with 3 mins left in the 1st Q but luckily neither Magic nor Kareem were subbed before then. So it's not a full game but it didn't affect the tracking!

I'm having trouble finding a remotely complete version of Game 3 of the 1984 Lakers vs. Kings series.

[70sFan]

Ok so I finished logging the 1983 playoffs for Showtime and man oh man did Kareem kick some ass!

Magic was just +27 in 643 minutes while Kareem was +83 in 588 minutes. And honestly the eye test supports that. Kareem was just phenomenal in these playoffs. Unstoppable scoring, amazing passing while also providing serious rim deterrence. Even commentators keep talking about how opponents were suddenly free to attack the basket when Kareem sat and how he's a great passer. He found so many cutters like Wilkes and Coopers for layups. Monster!

1983 Postseason (15 games)

Magic ON Kareem ON: 113.5 ORtg, 106.8 DRtg, +6.7 Net (534.7 minutes)
Magic ON Kareem OFF: 94.5 ORtg, 115.6 DRtg, -21.1 Net (108.3 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem ON: 99.1 ORtg, 92.0 DRtg, +7.1 Net (53.3 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem OFF: 74.8 ORtg, 119.6 DRtg, -44.9 Net (28.7 minutes)

I also added the 1985 playoff run to the dataset so there is now 61 playoff games of Magic/Kareem data.

1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985 Postseasons (61 games)

Magic ON Kareem ON: 116.6 ORtg, 104.4 DRtg, +12.2 Net (1971.6 minutes)
Magic ON Kareem OFF: 100.9 ORtg, 104.1 DRtg, -3.2 Net (509.4 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem ON: 100.9 ORtg, 108.9 DRtg, -8.0 Net (268.5 minutes)
Magic OFF Kareem OFF: 104.8 ORtg, 126.6 DRtg, -21.9 Net (231.5 minutes)

Spreadsheet is also updated up to 1983.

I plan to take a little break before resuming my tracking of 1984 and beyond. I have 20/21 games for the 1984 playoffs (Game 3 vs. Dallas is nowhere to be found) but a couple of my games are partials which is really annoying. I'll find upgraded versions of these games before I resume tracking.

Fantastic, thank you! I am not surprised that Kareem looks this good, because I watched the 1983 run very closely. Your data also supports my take on Magic playing very subpar series in the finals.

May I ask you if your G1 of the 1983 WCF is a full game?

Game 1 of the 1983 WCF starts with 3 mins left in the 1st Q but luckily neither Magic nor Kareem were subbed before then. So it's not a full game but it didn't affect the tracking!

I'm having trouble finding a remotely complete version of Game 3 of the 1984 Lakers vs. Kings series.

Yeah, I thought that you have the same incomplete version as mine.

Some of these full versions of old games just don't exist unfortunately. I don't even think the NBA has the full versions for these games.

[70sFan]

...

I have a short question - do you have the overall lineup data for 1983 WCF?

I'd like to see the data for Artis Gilmore, but I know that you tracked it for the Lakers duo.

[Djoker]

...

I have a short question - do you have the overall lineup data for 1983 WCF?

I'd like to see the data for Artis Gilmore, but I know that you tracked it for the Lakers duo.

I didn't track Gilmore unfortunately, only the Lakers duo.

However, for what it's worth, my impression watching the series is that Kareem definitely got the better of him. I recall Gilmore outplaying him in Game 2 but other than that, pretty much all Kareem. They both got each other in plenty of foul trouble but Kareem was more agile on both ends and that skyhook was just doing damage.

[Djoker]

Squared2020 just released the first snapshot of the 1980's RAPM!

Read on Twitter