Does 2025 Giannis have a case over 2025 Wemby?

[bonita_the_frog]

Will Wembanyama keep attempting 8.8 threes per game?

Because if he relies on 3s, he's no different to all the vastly shorter players who can go cold at anytime and shoot their team out of a game...
Whereas a player who relies on interior scoring, and does it better than anyone else, is more reliable.

Wembanyama and Giannis are polar opposites, Giannis is the most consistent scorer in the NBA, while Wembanyama is at the mercy of whether his 3-pointer is falling ...

And because Giannis attacks the paint frequently, he's averaging 6.5 assists per game for the last 2 years.

Again, these threes provide spacing value. This is really good for Wembanyama due to him drawing out the rim protector out (who mainly stands at the rim), to the perimeter. I could see him being in the Dirk level at spacing (which is a good reason why he's so good offensively).

Along with Wembanyama absolutely wiping Giannis at spacing, he also does this off-ball, and is WAYYY more portable. More efficient almost everywhere too. But, oh, doesn't matter, Giannis is better because he's a horrible shooter. I should've expected this from Giannis FC.

And on the other end.... we don't need a conversation. Rookie Wemby is comparable to 2019 and 2020 Giannis at defense, maybe even better. Let alone this season Wemby.

Does it though? In the games I watched, teams generally didn't guard Wembanyama with their rim protector. They let that player hang back and defended him with a rangy forward (or even a strong guard at times), largely because they saw he'd likely be content on the perimeter and didn't worry as much about him getting downhill (and often the smaller player made it harder for him to dribble).

Yes I've noticed Wembanyama is an awkward dribbler. Despite Wembanyama's reputation as a playmaker of sorts (really only praised for that because he's well-coordinated and skillful FOR HIS HEIGHT), Giannis is a lot more confident and secure beating defenders off the dribble.

[Clav]

OP, it is a bit confusing to use only one year in your phrasing, as seasons span two calendar years, so a modification to 25-26 would be more accurate.

24-25 still includes "2025", but isn't part of your focus, if I'm reading this correctly. Also, I locked your thread about 'eurofraud' Giannis last week, so this is a clever way around that, but not too clever if it devolves into that territory. Thank you!

I never said anything about Giannis being a eurofraud. So you're confusing me with someone else.

Also I meant 2024-25 (you should've gotten that, everyone else does). And no one has been able to give me a good argument for Giannis, so I assume this is all just Giannis FC coming out.

My apologies. As you were!

[Tracymcgoaty]

in 2025 does Wemby come close to Giannis you mean?

Giannis has a case for the best player in the game.

[Top10alltime]

OP, it is a bit confusing to use only one year in your phrasing, as seasons span two calendar years, so a modification to 25-26 would be more accurate.

24-25 still includes "2025", but isn't part of your focus, if I'm reading this correctly. Also, I locked your thread about 'eurofraud' Giannis last week, so this is a clever way around that, but not too clever if it devolves into that territory. Thank you!

I never said anything about Giannis being a eurofraud. So you're confusing me with someone else.

Also I meant 2024-25 (you should've gotten that, everyone else does). And no one has been able to give me a good argument for Giannis, so I assume this is all just Giannis FC coming out.

My apologies. As you were!

It's ok, I was taught to forgive others by my Father. Forgiven

[Top10alltime]

Will Wembanyama keep attempting 8.8 threes per game?

Because if he relies on 3s, he's no different to all the vastly shorter players who can go cold at anytime and shoot their team out of a game...
Whereas a player who relies on interior scoring, and does it better than anyone else, is more reliable.

Wembanyama and Giannis are polar opposites, Giannis is the most consistent scorer in the NBA, while Wembanyama is at the mercy of whether his 3-pointer is falling ...

And because Giannis attacks the paint frequently, he's averaging 6.5 assists per game for the last 2 years.

Again, these threes provide spacing value. This is really good for Wembanyama due to him drawing out the rim protector out (who mainly stands at the rim), to the perimeter. I could see him being in the Dirk level at spacing (which is a good reason why he's so good offensively).

Along with Wembanyama absolutely wiping Giannis at spacing, he also does this off-ball, and is WAYYY more portable. More efficient almost everywhere too. But, oh, doesn't matter, Giannis is better because he's a horrible shooter. I should've expected this from Giannis FC.

And on the other end.... we don't need a conversation. Rookie Wemby is comparable to 2019 and 2020 Giannis at defense, maybe even better. Let alone this season Wemby.

Will Wembanyama's spacing, shooting and defense ever make him as good or better than Giannis? If so, when would you expect this to happen?

It happened last year, and will again every year of Giannis' career unless an unfortunate injury happens

[brutalitops]

Is this a joke?

[JayMKE]

Giannis is a multiple time MVP, ASG MVP, DPOTY, Finals MVP, most physically dominant player in the game since Shaq. Wemby hasn’t made the playoffs yet and moves way more like a big while chucking 3 pointers. Giannis can genuinely can play PG at 7 feet tall, no one in the league can check Giannis 1 on 1. It takes a ton of team defense, I’ve never seen a player defended like Giannis before. He scores efficiently while being guard 3 on 1 or even more.

Watch on YouTube

Let’s see Wemby do this in the NBA finals after nearly inverting his knee the week before.

Can’t hold Giannis’s jock and the poll shows who is correct.

[benultimate]

Personally, I don't see the case for Giannis > Wemby. The gap will widen next season and pretty soon we're about to have yet another player wiping Giannis for peak, prime, and career. Could you help me out because I don't see why Wemby isn't already ahead of Giannis, and not top 5 player in the league.

Bruh change your username to Bottom10alltime coz your takes in here been straight trash

[CobraCommander]

It's not goofy. Wemby clears off-ball and as a spacer (that rim protector is going to have to go out in the perimeter, that's valuable), more efficient across the floor, and on the same tier as Giannis in transition (where Giannis hugely dips in the offs at), and as a finisher.

So they're pretty close offensively. Now on the other end of the floor, Wemby gaps Giannis, especially when he has such mid defense in 2025. Wemby's rim protection alone (although Giannis is still elite at that), gaps anything Giannis has to bring on the floor defensively.

Giannis at best is not even top 5 player last year, in 2024-25.

Ok I’ll bite who were the top 5 players last year

1. Do you have a reply to anything I said placing Wemby over Giannis?

2. The top 5 players last year were (in order)...

Shai
Jokic
Tatum
Luka
Wemby

The top 2 are locks, then Tatum, Luka, Wemby is interchangeable. That's my top 5.

You don’t have Giannis in your top 5 when he is better than everyone in your top 5 in one area or the other… got it- really weird to see a troll of your level on RealGM and not reddit

[Top10alltime]

Ok I’ll bite who were the top 5 players last year

1. Do you have a reply to anything I said placing Wemby over Giannis?

2. The top 5 players last year were (in order)...

Shai
Jokic
Tatum
Luka
Wemby

The top 2 are locks, then Tatum, Luka, Wemby is interchangeable. That's my top 5.

You don’t have Giannis in your top 5 when he is better than everyone in your top 5 in one area or the other… got it- really weird to see a troll of your level on RealGM and not reddit

Unfortunately no one has given me an explanation and just says I'm trolling.I'm allowed to have a different opinion, I am persecuted for it, but Giannis FC doesn't have good enough arguments to defend him, why?

Because Giannis is the most overrated of all-time. Not top 5 player in the league for the last 3 years unfortunately (his defense dropped off after 2022). The fact Giannis FC just spews insults and no facts, says a lot about Giannis, doesn't it

[JayMKE]

1. Do you have a reply to anything I said placing Wemby over Giannis?

2. The top 5 players last year were (in order)...

Shai
Jokic
Tatum
Luka
Wemby

The top 2 are locks, then Tatum, Luka, Wemby is interchangeable. That's my top 5.

You don’t have Giannis in your top 5 when he is better than everyone in your top 5 in one area or the other… got it- really weird to see a troll of your level on RealGM and not reddit

Unfortunately no one has given me an explanation and just says I'm trolling.I'm allowed to have a different opinion, I am persecuted for it, but Giannis FC doesn't have good enough arguments to defend him, why?

Because Giannis is the most overrated of all-time. Not top 5 player in the league for the last 3 years unfortunately (his defense dropped off after 2022). The fact Giannis FC just spews insults and no facts, says a lot about Giannis, doesn't it

You’re definitely not the smartest one in the room, how old are you? Obviously you know very little about basketball.

[bonita_the_frog]

GIannis 2024-25 = 30.4 points, 11.9 rebounds, 6.5 assists, .601 fielding
Giannis 2023-24 = 30.4 points, 11.5 rebounds, 6.5 assists, .611 fielding
And Giannis averaged less turnovers than Wembanyama, both years.
He is the standard by which basketball excellemce is measured.

[QingJames]

Giannis will always be good enough to defend Wembanyama, whereas I don't see any way for Wembanyama to defend Giannis.

Lmao it’s the other way around. Giannis has already declined greatly as a defender and will have a hard time guarding Wemby. Wemby is already a better defender than Giannis ever has been. Giannis might be better on offense right now, but probably won’t be by the end of the year.

[GiannisAnte34]

Giannis will always be good enough to defend Wembanyama, whereas I don't see any way for Wembanyama to defend Giannis.

Lmao it’s the other way around. Giannis has already declined greatly as a defender and will have a hard time guarding Wemby. Wemby is already a better defender than Giannis ever has been. Giannis might be better on offense right now, but probably won’t be by the end of the year.

What’s the measurement on better offense? If the measurement is better 3 pt shooter, yea Wemby will be better most likely

If the measurement is TS then it’s a long shot that Wemby is better at any point they both play the upcoming season

[MarcusBrody]

1. Do you have a reply to anything I said placing Wemby over Giannis?

2. The top 5 players last year were (in order)...

Shai
Jokic
Tatum
Luka
Wemby

The top 2 are locks, then Tatum, Luka, Wemby is interchangeable. That's my top 5.

You don’t have Giannis in your top 5 when he is better than everyone in your top 5 in one area or the other… got it- really weird to see a troll of your level on RealGM and not reddit

Unfortunately no one has given me an explanation and just says I'm trolling.I'm allowed to have a different opinion, I am persecuted for it, but Giannis FC doesn't have good enough arguments to defend him, why?

Because Giannis is the most overrated of all-time. Not top 5 player in the league for the last 3 years unfortunately (his defense dropped off after 2022). The fact Giannis FC just spews insults and no facts, says a lot about Giannis, doesn't it

I think that you are ignoring a very strong explanation that multiple people have presented: Everything points to Giannis still being a much better offensive player.

Giannis scores more efficiently at substantially higher volume. Giannis was 2nd in the league in scoring, Wemby was 20th-25th (depending where you cut off the inclusion). The difference in scoring output between Giannis and Wemby was the same as the difference between Wemby and Bam Adebayo and Michael Porter Jr., all while Wemby only had one less FGA than Giannis per game.

You showed a chart where Wemby had higher percentages from most zones on the floor (NBA.com has slightly different numbers, but it's not really material). But they both really varied across the zones - with some being more efficient than others - and Giannis managed to take many more of his shots from the efficient zones than Wemby did, so overall he was much more efficient (and he got to the line more).

Giannis also dished out a lot more assists. He's not an amazing passer but he's become a reasonably good one, and his rim pressure gives him lots of drive and kick opportunities to generate good looks for his teammates and the stats reflect that.

I actually agree that Giannis's defense hasn't been as good as it once was the last few years and I rank Wemby substantially higher than him on the defensive end of the floor at this point. And maybe Giannis drops off offensively this coming year and Wemby continues to improve his game greatly. We can't definitively know that.

BUT saying that "no one has given me an explanation" when multiple people have laid out pretty conclusive cases that Giannis was a much better offensive player last year is why people aren't certain of whether you're engaging in good faith.

[Top10alltime]

You don’t have Giannis in your top 5 when he is better than everyone in your top 5 in one area or the other… got it- really weird to see a troll of your level on RealGM and not reddit

Unfortunately no one has given me an explanation and just says I'm trolling.I'm allowed to have a different opinion, I am persecuted for it, but Giannis FC doesn't have good enough arguments to defend him, why?

Because Giannis is the most overrated of all-time. Not top 5 player in the league for the last 3 years unfortunately (his defense dropped off after 2022). The fact Giannis FC just spews insults and no facts, says a lot about Giannis, doesn't it

I think that you are ignoring a very strong explanation that multiple people have presented: Everything points to Giannis still being a much better offensive player.

Giannis scores more efficiently at substantially higher volume. Giannis was 2nd in the league in scoring, Wemby was 20th-25th (depending where you cut off the inclusion). The difference in scoring output between Giannis and Wemby was the same as the difference between Wemby and Bam Adebayo and Michael Porter Jr., all while Wemby only had one less FGA than Giannis per game.

You showed a chart where Wemby had higher percentages from most zones on the floor (NBA.com has slightly different numbers, but it's not really material). But they both really varied across the zones - with some being more efficient than others - and Giannis managed to take many more of his shots from the efficient zones than Wemby did, so overall he was much more efficient (and he got to the line more).

Giannis also dished out a lot more assists. He's not an amazing passer but he's become a reasonably good one, and his rim pressure gives him lots of drive and kick opportunities to generate good looks for his teammates and the stats reflect that.

I actually agree that Giannis's defense hasn't been as good as it once was the last few years and I rank Wemby substantially higher than him on the defensive end of the floor at this point. And maybe Giannis drops off offensively this coming year and Wemby continues to improve his game greatly. We can't definitively know that.

BUT saying that "no one has given me an explanation" when multiple people have laid out pretty conclusive cases that Giannis was a much better offensive player last year is why people aren't certain of whether you're engaging in good faith.

First good explanation I've seen so far, good job to you

Here we go....

1. So does that mean Duncan > KG as scorers, Duncan scores more volume and more efficient, but KG has a better scoring skillset. Keep in mind Giannis' only options at scoring is finishing (neutralized against elite rim protectors) and transition (bombs in a playoff setting). You can't just take the easier shots and call yourself a better scorer . Wemby is already good at finishing and transition. I'm not saying Giannis is worse as a scorer, but it's closer than people think.

2. Don't place the assists like they mean something. Is John Stockton a better playmaker than Steve Nash? No. It's about how unschemable you are at it and how many counters you have, basically a playmaking skillset. You listed Giannis' only option at playmaking, drive and kick (he's schemable as a driver). Wembanyama is better at every other option in playmaking (Pnr, connecting, DHOs, etc).

3. Wembanyama at this point in his career is genuinely a better defender than Giannis has ever been in his life. Giannis is clearly not top 3. The only things he's good at on defense are roaming and rim protection (which are fringe elite or sub-elite). Wembanyama is better at both of this, BTW. Giannis has shown he's outside the top 50 offensively, and an extremely overrated player on both ends.

4. No one but you, just now have given me a good explanation. This is what I hate about people (I don't hate anyone, I'm not saying I do), they just dismiss new takes that they can't even attack. Ridiculous, in my opinion, but hey, I can't force people to be better.

God bless, and hope you live a blessed life.

[Ancalagon]

This isn’t really a question yet. The better question is would you trade Giannis today for Wemby given future projection?

Who is better now is clearly Giannis.

[Rdude22]

These mobile 7fters are like watching a young giraffe learn to stand/walk with a notable uncertainty.

Some will walk away strong and durable like D. Robinson, Shaq and Giannis… many others will be like Walton, Yao, Bynum, Embiid, etc.

We really don’t know which category Wemby will walk into, so just off that alone it’s unwise to place him over Giannis who (despite not being the healthiest player) has long since passed that test of availability

[bonita_the_frog]

Giannis will always be good enough to defend Wembanyama, whereas I don't see any way for Wembanyama to defend Giannis.

Lmao it’s the other way around. Giannis has already declined greatly as a defender and will have a hard time guarding Wemby. Wemby is already a better defender than Giannis ever has been. Giannis might be better on offense right now, but probably won’t be by the end of the year.

What’s the measurement on better offense? If the measurement is better 3 pt shooter, yea Wemby will be better most likely

If the measurement is TS then it’s a long shot that Wemby is better at any point they both play the upcoming season

Plus its rather humiliating being that tall and settling for 3s, which means Wembanyama will have VERY cold shooting nights like every other shrimpy shooter (and last season he only made 35%, so hasn't even reached the league average for 3pt%), whereas Giannis will always be a CONSISTENT and RELIABLE 30ppg scorer.

[CharityStripe34]

1. So does that mean Duncan > KG as scorers, Duncan scores more volume and more efficient, but KG has a better scoring skillset. Keep in mind Giannis' only options at scoring is finishing (neutralized against elite rim protectors) and transition (bombs in a playoff setting). You can't just take the easier shots and call yourself a better scorer . Wemby is already good at finishing and transition. I'm not saying Giannis is worse as a scorer, but it's closer than people think.

2. Don't place the assists like they mean something. Is John Stockton a better playmaker than Steve Nash? No. It's about how unschemable you are at it and how many counters you have, basically a playmaking skillset. You listed Giannis' only option at playmaking, drive and kick (he's schemable as a driver). Wembanyama is better at every other option in playmaking (Pnr, connecting, DHOs, etc).

4. No one but you, just now have given me a good explanation. This is what I hate about people (I don't hate anyone, I'm not saying I do), they just dismiss new takes that they can't even attack. Ridiculous, in my opinion, but hey, I can't force people to be better.

God bless, and hope you live a blessed life.

Most of this sounds like window dressing for the "He has no bag" stuff that many have parroted after the whole Giannis/Harden thing in 2019. Yeah, Durant (similar build player) is a lethal shooter at long distance but if Giannis is consistently getting into the paint and scoring from his spots at an elite and efficient clip (interior & mid-range), does it matter if he doesn't take 5-8 three pointers with a "hesi-tween-splash" or whatever? Moral of the story being that elite players can be dangerous and stylistically different, based on their unique skillsets. That goes for scorers, shooters, passers, etc.

Giannis in the last 2.5 seasons has become a reliable and actually elite mid-range shooter. And I think since he's realized he's not a threat from three he's considerably cut down on attempts, hence why he's become a more efficient offensive player and scorer. Others have pointed this out and have given examples. His passing isn't only drive and kick as well (though that's the main driver of his playmaking), he routinely pushes the ball ahead to shooters in transition and there have been plenty of 'hockey-assists.' He's also gotten a lot more patient at drawing double-teams from the post and the elbows and routinely making skip passes to the corners. And I've been watching virtually all their games. He's also elite as hell at running a high-screen as the lead guard, essentially, with inverted pick-and-rolls with perimeter players because he's one of the greatest handlers ever at his size. Wemby has not shown these traits or qualities with much consistency yet. It's quite possible he develops them as he's a special talent, to be sure.

In Milwaukee's playoff series against eventual Finalists, Indiana, Giannis was 33-15-7 with 65% TS and 70% FT. If that's "bombing in the playoffs" I guess no one's ever been resilient. I just used this series as it's the most recent we have in the NBA. I also think earlier in the thread you claimed that "Giannis sucked against Finland in the bronze medal game" (or possibly in another thread) when he went for 30 pts 17 rbs 6 asts 2 blks while going 9/11 FG and 12/16 FT. So, damn, I guess bring on the suck lol.

I don't really care if you think he's overrated or whatever either, that's your opinion. It doesn't bother me, FYI. But you're coming across to most people like you have an agenda against him.