Kuminga to SAC, is there a middle ground?

[xdrta+]

You're confusing options and partial/non guarantees i think. They are separate entities

?? Of course they're separate entities, but they can be combined. TJD's contract for 26-27 is club option/non-guarantee. You could look it up.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/84443/trayce-jackson-davis

Player option and nonguaranteed is an oxymoron/makes no sense though. Its not a player option if team can get out of it

Not an oxymoron at all. The player can opt out of a non-guaranteed contract.

[Golabki]

Looks like the issue is Kuminga's agent. Because if he wants to play for the Kings, the Kings want him to play for them, and the Warriors don't really want him to play for them, they just hope to recoup something from a high draft pick that didn't pan out--well it seems like something an agent could help to broker. But his agent has no high profile clients so he can't help resolve this.

This board likes to hate on Klutch or other powerful agencies, but there are reasons players sign with them. They would have resolved this in a manner suitable to their client by now.

I don't know how having other high profile clients would be helping in making a deal.

The biggest holdup is that there's an extra cost to making a deal. BYC and the warriors need to avoid a 1st apron hard cap impose an extra cost on any JK to Sacramento (or other team) S&T deal. If the Kings are sending out a neutral or mildly positive trade package (Monk and a 1st protected so that it's almost certainly a Wemby Spurs 1st for instance), then the net return for the Warriors is a negative value deal due to the price they'll have to pay to make it work overall due to CBA issues. In order to make a deal be even a net neutral return (much less the slight positive return GS would expect/prefer) then Sacramento (or other team) needs to send out a significant positive value trade package in return. At which point they say no so no deal happens.

Golden State and Kuminga need each other and they're going to have to figure out a way to make it work.

There's always the (unspoken) threat that an agent would steer clients away from a team with a reputation for being uncooperative/not good for players.

For example, let's say Kuminga and Giannis had the same agent. You think the Warriors would be trying to nickel and dime their way through this, or would they be bending over backwards to show Giannis' agent how player-friendly their org is?

I think the issue is more that the agent hasn’t set expectations. Bottom line: no team has offered meaningful positive value for a sign-and-trade. The only credible proposal is Monk plus a protected first, which is basically neutral, and then they’d still need to dump Hield or Moody — both solid players on good contracts that GSW actually likes. So net-net, that’s not attractive. He wants significantly more than $20M per year, and most teams view that as a bad contract. At least one (Sac) would take him at that price, but they’re not willing to give up a strong package to do it. And that’s simply because he hasn’t proven he’s worth it.

[the_process]

Different try at this.

CHA gets Hield
GSW gets Monk and 26 SAC 1st top 7 protected
MIA gets DDR, NSJ, and Jeffries
SAC gets Rozier, Kuminga (S&T 3-66), and 29 MIA 1st lotto protected

[Scoot McGroot]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing why GS would truly feel that having Monk at $18.8m on the books forces them to trade Buddy or Moody, while having Kuminga on the books at $22m(?) for multiple years doesn't? The money doesn't make sense. The positional flexibility of playing Podz/Buddy/Moody at 2/3 and the lack of other guys at the 1/2 behind Curry doesn't seem to prove that concept?

[gswhoops]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing why GS would truly feel that having Monk at $18.8m on the books forces them to trade Buddy or Moody, while having Kuminga on the books at $22m(?) for multiple years doesn't? The money doesn't make sense. The positional flexibility of playing Podz/Buddy/Moody at 2/3 and the lack of other guys at the 1/2 behind Curry doesn't seem to prove that concept?

It’s a BYC/apron issue

[Scoot McGroot]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing why GS would truly feel that having Monk at $18.8m on the books forces them to trade Buddy or Moody, while having Kuminga on the books at $22m(?) for multiple years doesn't? The money doesn't make sense. The positional flexibility of playing Podz/Buddy/Moody at 2/3 and the lack of other guys at the 1/2 behind Curry doesn't seem to prove that concept?

It’s a BYC/apron issue

That would make more sense, but most reports are hinting that it's a roster construction issue rather than a cap issue? Which is the weird part to me. Salary matching and hard caps, sure.

[NW]

Different try at this.

CHA gets Hield
GSW gets Monk and 26 SAC 1st top 7 protected
MIA gets DDR, NSJ, and Jeffries
SAC gets Rozier, Kuminga (S&T 3-66), 29 MIA 1st lotto protected

The point is the Warriors don’t want to trade Hield in a Monk deal. They really don’t want Monk in a deal at all imo

[the_process]

Fanspo really needs to update all rosters.

[babyjax13]

Different try at this.

CHA gets Hield
GSW gets Monk and 26 SAC 1st top 7 protected
MIA gets DDR, NSJ, and Jeffries
SAC gets Rozier, Kuminga (S&T 3-66), 29 MIA 1st lotto protected

The point is the Warriors don’t want to trade Hield in a Monk deal. They really don’t want Monk in a deal at all imo

I wonder if there is a way to loop Boston in? They could cut down Simons salary this year and reduce (slightly) their redundancy of players who primarily play the 1.

[gswhoops]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing why GS would truly feel that having Monk at $18.8m on the books forces them to trade Buddy or Moody, while having Kuminga on the books at $22m(?) for multiple years doesn't? The money doesn't make sense. The positional flexibility of playing Podz/Buddy/Moody at 2/3 and the lack of other guys at the 1/2 behind Curry doesn't seem to prove that concept?

It’s a BYC/apron issue

That would make more sense, but most reports are hinting that it's a roster construction issue rather than a cap issue? Which is the weird part to me. Salary matching and hard caps, sure.

I think those reports are just wrong honestly. Moody is a 2/3 who occasionally plays smallball 4 - I don't think his role and Monk's would overlap much. Buddy and Monk overlap somewhat in that they're both small guards who struggle on D and so you can't really put them on the floor together (especially if Steph is also out there), but Buddy is a pure shooter and Monk is an on-ball microwave scorer. I think you'd mostly play Buddy with Steph and Monk when Steph sits.

The BYC/apron problem is a clear math issue - we can't trade JK for Monk and stay under the first apron without including either Hield or Moody.

[babyjax13]

Worth noting that the Nets waiving Johnson means that they can take back two players before they have to get down to the regular season roster limit. Just another spin on the broad Kings - Warriors - Nets framework:

Kings trade: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
in: Kuminga
Kings get their guy. Not sure he should be their guy, but they get him.

Warriors trade: Kuminga
in: 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), Terance Mann
Warriors get a pick and a rotation player for a guy that has not been a fit.

Nets trade: Terance Mann
in: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
Monk is probably easier to move than Mann and the Nets get a shot on a recent lottery pick and a possible first round pick.

[NW]

Worth noting that the Nets waiving Johnson means that they can take back two players before they have to get down to the regular season roster limit. Just another spin on the broad Kings - Warriors - Nets framework:

Kings trade: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
in: Kuminga
Kings get their guy. Not sure he should be their guy, but they get him.

Warriors trade: Kuminga
in: 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), Terance Mann
Warriors get a pick and a rotation player for a guy that has not been a fit.

Nets trade: Terance Mann
in: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
Monk is probably easier to move than Mann and the Nets get a shot on a recent lottery pick and a possible first round pick.

Is this a January trade? I don’t think it works financially for GS with Kuminga’s BYC

[Scoot McGroot]

Worth noting that the Nets waiving Johnson means that they can take back two players before they have to get down to the regular season roster limit. Just another spin on the broad Kings - Warriors - Nets framework:

Kings trade: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
in: Kuminga
Kings get their guy. Not sure he should be their guy, but they get him.

Warriors trade: Kuminga
in: 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), Terance Mann
Warriors get a pick and a rotation player for a guy that has not been a fit.

Nets trade: Terance Mann
in: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
Monk is probably easier to move than Mann and the Nets get a shot on a recent lottery pick and a possible first round pick.

The small issue for the Nets isn't the 21 in the offseason, as much as it's eventually getting down to 15. Let's assume Monk takes Mann's spot, and Saric is waived. Well, then what do you do with Carter? Their roster is already filled with their own 1st round picks, 1st round pick players they've taken on like Bufkin, guys they just resigned, and the few vets they want to keep, and there's not an easy waiver?

[babyjax13]

Worth noting that the Nets waiving Johnson means that they can take back two players before they have to get down to the regular season roster limit. Just another spin on the broad Kings - Warriors - Nets framework:

Kings trade: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
in: Kuminga
Kings get their guy. Not sure he should be their guy, but they get him.

Warriors trade: Kuminga
in: 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), Terance Mann
Warriors get a pick and a rotation player for a guy that has not been a fit.

Nets trade: Terance Mann
in: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
Monk is probably easier to move than Mann and the Nets get a shot on a recent lottery pick and a possible first round pick.

Is this a January trade? I don’t think it works financially for GS with Kuminga’s BYC

It should be really close based on the reported salary. Mann makes 15.5, not sure how high they can start Kuminga, but a declining deal might be preferred, anyway.

[Nate the Great]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing why GS would truly feel that having Monk at $18.8m on the books forces them to trade Buddy or Moody, while having Kuminga on the books at $22m(?) for multiple years doesn't? The money doesn't make sense. The positional flexibility of playing Podz/Buddy/Moody at 2/3 and the lack of other guys at the 1/2 behind Curry doesn't seem to prove that concept?

It’s a BYC/apron issue

That would make more sense, but most reports are hinting that it's a roster construction issue rather than a cap issue? Which is the weird part to me. Salary matching and hard caps, sure.

I’m not sure what reports you’re referring to, but that doesn’t match anything I’ve heard.

In a Kuminga deal with the Kings, the Warriors could only take back half Kuminga’s salary, but they would have to send out more salary than just Kuminga’s to make it work. The BYC rules for S&Ts get complicated these days. What it means is that the Warriors would have to send either Hield or Moody to a third team for nothing.

Buddy is a glue guy for the Warriors. His teammates (especially Jimmy) are very fond of him. He’s relentlessly positive and a useful shooter. Moses is an ideal bench player; he doesn’t complain about his role, and he’s a very good defender. They both fit the Warriors’ system. So they don’t want to lose either player.

Monk would have value as a bench scorer who can help move the ball around, but he’s inefficient and a poor defender. Also, the Warriors’ offensive system doesn’t work with every player. The picks the Kings have offered have been either second rounders or far in the future, and therefore not very valuable. There is a risk that the trade, even disregarding the loss of Kuminga, would make the Warriors worse.

The only reason I can see the Warriors doing one of these trades is if Horford gives them an ultimatum to sign him soon, and I don’t think that will happen.

[longfellow44]

Worth noting that the Nets waiving Johnson means that they can take back two players before they have to get down to the regular season roster limit. Just another spin on the broad Kings - Warriors - Nets framework:

Kings trade: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
in: Kuminga
Kings get their guy. Not sure he should be their guy, but they get him.

Warriors trade: Kuminga
in: 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), Terance Mann
Warriors get a pick and a rotation player for a guy that has not been a fit.

Nets trade: Terance Mann
in: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
Monk is probably easier to move than Mann and the Nets get a shot on a recent lottery pick and a possible first round pick.

So far the kings have not been willing to give a single unprotected pick for Kuminga, and here you have them giving a potentially unprotected pick in 2027 and the spurs pick. I just don't see this as realistic at all.

If the kings were willing to give any level of an unprotected pick I think Kuminga would already be a king, regardless of Moody or Heild.


How about we use utah instead something like this

Monk, Isaac Jones and Carter, Kings 2nd to the Jazz
Anderson, and Cody Williams and a protected kings first to the warriors
Kuminga and Kevin Love to the kings.

The money should work here in order to allow the warriors to keep both moody and heild. Jazz get a talent upgrade and take a flyer on two young guys. Kings get Kuminga.

[xdrta+]

How about we use utah instead something like this

Monk, Isaac Jones and Carter, Kings 2nd to the Jazz
Anderson, and Cody Williams and a protected kings first to the warriors
Kuminga and Kevin Love to the kings.

The money should work here in order to allow the warriors to keep both moody and heild. Jazz get a talent upgrade and take a flyer on two young guys. Kings get Kuminga.

Once again the Warriors have to send out more salary. They can't afford to be hard-capped at the 1st Apron.

[SkyHook]

Worth noting that the Nets waiving Johnson means that they can take back two players before they have to get down to the regular season roster limit. Just another spin on the broad Kings - Warriors - Nets framework:

Kings trade: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
in: Kuminga
Kings get their guy. Not sure he should be their guy, but they get him.

Warriors trade: Kuminga
in: 2026 SAC 1st (1-8 protected, unprotected), Terance Mann
Warriors get a pick and a rotation player for a guy that has not been a fit.

Nets trade: Terance Mann
in: Monk, Saric, Carter, 2027 SAS 1st (if 1-16)
Monk is probably easier to move than Mann and the Nets get a shot on a recent lottery pick and a possible first round pick.

Last year's FRP + a lightly protected FRP next year + a little better than lottery protected FRP the following year for Kuminga?!? That would be a horrendous move for the Kings and my opinion of Vivek & co is already low enough.

[longfellow44]

How about we use utah instead something like this

Monk, Isaac Jones and Carter, Kings 2nd to the Jazz
Anderson, and Cody Williams and a protected kings first to the warriors
Kuminga and Kevin Love to the kings.

The money should work here in order to allow the warriors to keep both moody and heild. Jazz get a talent upgrade and take a flyer on two young guys. Kings get Kuminga.

Once again the Warriors have to send out more salary. They can't afford to be hard-capped at the 1st Apron.

How little money do they have to take back to not end up hard capped? This is only like 14 million going to the warriors. Honestly if they can't take back this small of an amount then I strongly doubt that they will be able trade him at all without losing one of those guys, there does not appear to be a scenario where they get to trade Kuminga now and not lose someone because nobody has capspace, and in order to create that space a team is going to want compensation like a pick and nobody is offering more than one pick for Kuminga. Seems like a catch 22 that could see the warriors lose Kuminga for nothing, if he takes the qualifying offer, especially since they don't want to give him a player option on any deal he is offered and he seems to want control more than money.

[SkyHook]

How about we use utah instead something like this

Monk, Isaac Jones and Carter, Kings 2nd to the Jazz
Anderson, and Cody Williams and a protected kings first to the warriors
Kuminga and Kevin Love to the kings.

The money should work here in order to allow the warriors to keep both moody and heild. Jazz get a talent upgrade and take a flyer on two young guys. Kings get Kuminga.

Once again the Warriors have to send out more salary. They can't afford to be hard-capped at the 1st Apron.

Utah isn't taking on Monk's future money (not without ample compensation) and even with as badly as his rookie year went, Williams isn't a throwaway.