Mirotic12 wrote:-Luke- wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:
Perhaps you're right, but I don't think you'll find any player as mediocre in the NBA making the Hall in the post-Cold War era.
That said, it would help if Germany won Olympic medals. Perfectly fine for international posters to prioritize World Cup & EuroBasket over the Olympics, but I doubt Naismith voters will.
Depends on what we define as cold war era. Dino Radja and Toni Kukoc were both in their early 20's when Croatia became independent and played in the NBA by their mid 20's. And yes, Kukoc was a better NBA player than Schröder, but not nearly enough to have a HOF case based on his NBA career. Radja played a bit more than 200 NBA games.
Agree that Franz has a better case going forward though. I think Detlef Schrempf would be in the HOF had he been on the 1993 German team that won the EuroBasket (they won without him which is probably not great for Det's HOF case) or if he had some other accolades with the national team. His NBA career was very good, but not enough for HOF. Franz on the other hand already is World and European Champion and not as a role player but as a star player. If he has a Detlef Schrempf type NBA career or more, which is certainly possible, he should be a HOF lock.
Maybe Peja is a good comparison for Franz. He had a Det-like NBA career if we look at the accolades and won World and Euro with Serbia, while being MVP of the EuroBasket. If Peja doesn't make the HOF, what are we doing? Get this guy in goddammit.
Edit:
Nick Galis is one example who made it in the HOF in recent times purely based on his international career. He was born in the US, played college ball in the US and was drafted into the NBA, although he never played. So cold war isn't an excuse for him.
All of these players were playing and in their primes, after the NBA players joined FIBA and wouldn't be in the hall of fame just from NBA play.
Nick Galis
Oscar Schmidt
Dino Radja
Drazen Petrovic
Sarunas Marciulionis
Vlade Divac
Toni Kukoc
Arvydas Sabonis
All of them are in the hall of fame.
Also, there are several international based players that have made the nominees finalists and were playing after NBA players joined FIBA. And that wouldn't be nominees only off NBA play.
Panagiotis Giannakis
Alphonso Ford
Andrei Kirilenko
Jorge Garbajosa
Juan Carlos Navarro
So, there is no cold war era or pre NBA players in FIBA era restriction at all for international players making the hall.
So I would say all of the guys who you list as in grew up in the Cold War. Every single one of them, part of why they're in is because they can be talked up as "the first to do X" or "first gen to do X", and that's a feather in their cap that more modern players just won't have.
Now, I'm not saying, say, Sabonis is only in for a factor like that - I consider him one of the great talents in history - but a player today who has the NBA career that Radja had, I'll be surprised if he gets in the Hall.
As for your second list, I don't see Ford on the Nominee list, but all the other guys you mention were nominees previously and thus failed to be Inducted. They're getting nominated by the International Committee, and then getting rejected by the Honors Committee. They might get rejected forever of course, but this isn't a situation where getting Nominated means you're likely to get in that year, or even any year.
As I say that, let's note that Kirilenko is very much a different candidate than the rest. Kirilenko was an NBA all-star who everyone acknowledges was a world class player, and while that doesn't mean he'll necessarily get in, I'll be surprised if any contemporaries of Kirilenko get in the Hall with a much worse NBA career.
