Kawhi Leonard Signed a Secret $28M Deal. Steve Ballmer Funded a Fraud. We Followed the Money. | PTFO

[Me Like Lakers]

I feel this is/was pretty common league wide (maybe not as intense), but Cuban's done it hard by the way he defends someone that he really doesn't need to

[Hello Brooklyn]

The more proof we get, the more it seems impossible to prove that Balmer was involved.

I think worst case Balmer gets fined for negligence. But I won't be surprised if they get no punishment.

Think Joe smith saga wasn't nearly as damning as this . His signed a deals to get bird rights. Didn't break the rules directly but broke the spirit of the rules .

I think having an unannounced endorsement is punishable enough for the player. Late payment story also questionable. The business didn't have to pay Kawhi at all. Could have just sent him to bankruptcy court.

As I've said previously the Joe Smith saga had direct evidence implicating Glen Taylor. There is nothing close to that in this case.

[Hello Brooklyn]

The more proof we get, the more it seems impossible to prove that Balmer was involved.

I think worst case Balmer gets fined for negligence. But I won't be surprised if they get no punishment.

Wonder how much of a revolt there would be from other teams and fans if Silver tried to sweep it under a rug.

If there aren't serious penalties, what's to keep other teams from setting up dummy corporations or funnel money through parties willing to be money launderers (for a commission of course) to route money to NBA stars?

If they set a precedent, basically give light or no punishment for this kind of cap circumvention, then in a few years, EVERY team can get way under the cap as you see all these "discount" contracts signed by franchise players who should be getting the max or super max.

Only everyone knows they're getting side money in addition to their official NBA team contract.

Most fans are going to not care about this. I doubt most owners will care.

A lot of teams do stuff like this and just don't get caught. Its been alleged that Joe Tsai gave KD/Kyrie a ton of perks too.

Balmer didn't set up a dummy corporation. He invested in a business that also gave an endorsement to Kawhi. This type of stuff happens all the time.

The only difference is that Kawhi was stupid enough to not actually do anything to earn the endorsement. If he even did one event or made one Tweet there would be really no case against what he did.

Circumvention requires actual proof. And there is still no proof at all that Balmer knew about it.

I imagine that the league may pass reforms on the types of player endorsements players can take. But players union would probably be strongly opposed to it.

Bottom line: It won't set a precedent because this has always been happening. Teams will just be more careful.

[Hello Brooklyn]

It's probably time for me to stop following this until a sentence comes down. Hopefully it doesn't take TOO long but it probably will.

I understand why Clippers fans may choose to minimize what's already been revealed, but there really is no valid explanation for the contract with zero requirements.

I expect this to eventually lead to CBA agreements where players are required to report the specifics of all endorsements, gifts, income from outside of the team. There obviously needs to be more transparency on that end. If Ballmer did what it looks like he did, he violated existing rules.

I expect the loss of three future picks but I'm not sure what the punishment for Kawhi will be as it will depend on when the penalty comes down.

Clippers don't need an explanation because it wasn't their deal.

The players union will never agree to scrutinizing their endorsements so good luck changing that.

[MAMBAEMD]

The more proof we get, the more it seems impossible to prove that Balmer was involved.

I think worst case Balmer gets fined for negligence. But I won't be surprised if they get no punishment.

Wonder how much of a revolt there would be from other teams and fans if Silver tried to sweep it under a rug.

If there aren't serious penalties, what's to keep other teams from setting up dummy corporations or funnel money through parties willing to be money launderers (for a commission of course) to route money to NBA stars?

If they set a precedent, basically give light or no punishment for this kind of cap circumvention, then in a few years, EVERY team can get way under the cap as you see all these "discount" contracts signed by franchise players who should be getting the max or super max.

Only everyone knows they're getting side money in addition to their official NBA team contract.

Most fans are going to not care about this. I doubt most owners will care.

A lot of teams do stuff like this and just don't get caught. Its been alleged that Joe Tsai gave KD/Kyrie a ton of perks too.

Balmer didn't set up a dummy corporation. He invested in a business that also gave an endorsement to Kawhi. This type of stuff happens all the time.

The only difference is that Kawhi was stupid enough to not actually do anything to earn the endorsement. If he even did one event or made one Tweet there would be really no case against what he did.

Circumvention requires actual proof. And there is still no proof at all that Balmer knew about it.

I imagine that the league may pass reforms on the types of player endorsements players can take. But players union would probably be strongly opposed to it.

Bottom line: It won't set a precedent because this has always been happening. Teams will just be more careful.

Interesting.

So what would you say about the close proximity of the payments from the Clipps or from part-owners of the Clipps to Aspiration, and the payments from Aspiration to Mr. Leonard?

Seem pretty damning to me.

[og15]

The more proof we get, the more it seems impossible to prove that Balmer was involved.

I think worst case Balmer gets fined for negligence. But I won't be surprised if they get no punishment.

Wonder how much of a revolt there would be from other teams and fans if Silver tried to sweep it under a rug.

If there aren't serious penalties, what's to keep other teams from setting up dummy corporations or funnel money through parties willing to be money launderers (for a commission of course) to route money to NBA stars?

If they set a precedent, basically give light or no punishment for this kind of cap circumvention, then in a few years, EVERY team can get way under the cap as you see all these "discount" contracts signed by franchise players who should be getting the max or super max.

Only everyone knows they're getting side money in addition to their official NBA team contract.

Most fans are going to not care about this. I doubt most owners will care.

A lot of teams do stuff like this and just don't get caught. Its been alleged that Joe Tsai gave KD/Kyrie a ton of perks too.

Balmer didn't set up a dummy corporation. He invested in a business that also gave an endorsement to Kawhi. This type of stuff happens all the time.

The only difference is that Kawhi was stupid enough to not actually do anything to earn the endorsement. If he even did one event or made one Tweet there would be really no case against what he did.

Circumvention requires actual proof. And there is still no proof at all that Balmer knew about it.

I imagine that the league may pass reforms on the types of player endorsements players can take. But players union would probably be strongly opposed to it.

Bottom line: It won't set a precedent because this has always been happening. Teams will just be more careful.

Silver mentioned in one of his interviews that while the NBA doesn't have all encompassing rules, they have some guidelines for endorsements, such as percentage of company owned. He essentially said that since there's a lot of big money in the situations now, that the NBA will have to look into adjusting it's rules in relation to this stuff.

So that's one area we will likely see some sort of changes made.

Disagree that owners don't care, they aren't all Ballmer rich.

[manlisten]

I feel this is/was pretty common league wide (maybe not as intense), but Cuban's done it hard by the way he defends someone that he really doesn't need to

Cuban has been in the roles of both the Clippers and Aspiration in his time as an NBA owner. There's a trail of blood under each footstep he takes.

[Michael Lucky]

Talk about doing things to make yourself the most disliked player in the NBA in the last couple decades. Lebron and kobe have a ton of hate but huge fan bases. Who ven roots for kawhi anymore?

Well except if you are an okc fan. Might as well build a statue of him outside their arena.

[Slim Charlez]

Kawhi may never have his jersey retired by a single NBA team at this point. That's wild to think about. Spurs and Clippers definitely won't. Raptors really shouldn't considering he only played there one season and then told them to kick rocks despite them begging him to stay, but they might do it anyways. Time will tell.

Raptors definitely will

[Slim Charlez]

I remember when the Spurs were vilified by the media and NBA fans alike for being frustrated with Kawhi and is constant unavailability. Good times.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

B-b-but Tony Parker was a big meanie and hurt his feelings remember? THAT'S why he left, not because it was his plan all along

Spurs made him play hurt as well remember, and they misdiagnosed him even though it turns out the Spurs medical staff was right all along.

[xb3at band1tx]

Pablo dropped stealth dropped a new episode

https://shows.acast.com/pablo-torre-finds-out/episodes/steve-ballmer-the-other-cuban-and-the-118-million-infusion-k

[jbk1234]

The more proof we get, the more it seems impossible to prove that Balmer was involved.

I think worst case Balmer gets fined for negligence. But I won't be surprised if they get no punishment.

Wonder how much of a revolt there would be from other teams and fans if Silver tried to sweep it under a rug.

If there aren't serious penalties, what's to keep other teams from setting up dummy corporations or funnel money through parties willing to be money launderers (for a commission of course) to route money to NBA stars?

If they set a precedent, basically give light or no punishment for this kind of cap circumvention, then in a few years, EVERY team can get way under the cap as you see all these "discount" contracts signed by franchise players who should be getting the max or super max.

Only everyone knows they're getting side money in addition to their official NBA team contract.

Most fans are going to not care about this. I doubt most owners will care.

A lot of teams do stuff like this and just don't get caught. Its been alleged that Joe Tsai gave KD/Kyrie a ton of perks too.

Balmer didn't set up a dummy corporation. He invested in a business that also gave an endorsement to Kawhi. This type of stuff happens all the time.

The only difference is that Kawhi was stupid enough to not actually do anything to earn the endorsement. If he even did one event or made one Tweet there would be really no case against what he did.

Circumvention requires actual proof. And there is still no proof at all that Balmer knew about it.

I imagine that the league may pass reforms on the types of player endorsements players can take. But players union would probably be strongly opposed to it.

Bottom line: It won't set a precedent because this has always been happening. Teams will just be more careful.

People keep saying this without being able to cite examples of this always happening. The ONLY example is the report that the Nets paid for apartments for Kyrie and Durants girlfriends, and that's a miniscule amount of money compared to this. If I had to make an educated guess, there are less than 5 owners that are okay with this, and in a league with 30 teams, that's going to be a problem for Silver if he attempts slap wrists and walk away.

The league need not pass reforms as there are existing CBA rules that were broken.

[inonba]

Most fans are going to not care about this. I doubt most owners will care.

A lot of teams do stuff like this and just don't get caught. Its been alleged that Joe Tsai gave KD/Kyrie a ton of perks too.

Balmer didn't set up a dummy corporation. He invested in a business that also gave an endorsement to Kawhi. This type of stuff happens all the time.

The only difference is that Kawhi was stupid enough to not actually do anything to earn the endorsement. If he even did one event or made one Tweet there would be really no case against what he did.

Circumvention requires actual proof. And there is still no proof at all that Balmer knew about it.

I imagine that the league may pass reforms on the types of player endorsements players can take. But players union would probably be strongly opposed to it.

Bottom line: It won't set a precedent because this has always been happening. Teams will just be more careful.

Good to know that after 89 pages of content, there's still someone looking for that signed confession.

Implication for Salary Cap Circumvention:
Disproportionate size of Kawhi's contract
No deliverables
Timing with Contract Events
Prioritized disbursement
Timing of Dennis Wong investment

I haven't encountered anyone even come close to providing a reasonable explanation for the above list without implicating a larger crime, not to mention the mountain of evidence surrounding it.

If anyone wants to try, be my guest, but in both criminal and civil investigations, the law often infers intent from behavior and timing, especially when: “No other plausible explanation fits the facts.”

For example, in regards to the Dennis Wong investment: If the league were to try to prove cap circumvention or similar wrongdoing, the alignment (due payment date → missed payment → owner infusion → payment made) is exactly the sort of “temporal correlation + financial flow” evidence they’d want. It doesn’t prove definitively that the infusion was solely for that payment, or that intent to circumvent was admitted, but it's strong circumstantial evidence that it's exactly what happened.

[SNPA]

Most fans are going to not care about this. I doubt most owners will care.

A lot of teams do stuff like this and just don't get caught. Its been alleged that Joe Tsai gave KD/Kyrie a ton of perks too.

Balmer didn't set up a dummy corporation. He invested in a business that also gave an endorsement to Kawhi. This type of stuff happens all the time.

The only difference is that Kawhi was stupid enough to not actually do anything to earn the endorsement. If he even did one event or made one Tweet there would be really no case against what he did.

Circumvention requires actual proof. And there is still no proof at all that Balmer knew about it.

I imagine that the league may pass reforms on the types of player endorsements players can take. But players union would probably be strongly opposed to it.

Bottom line: It won't set a precedent because this has always been happening. Teams will just be more careful.

Good to know that after 89 pages of content, there's still someone looking for that signed confession.

Implication for Salary Cap Circumvention:
Disproportionate size of Kawhi's contract
No deliverables
Timing with Contract Events
Prioritized disbursement
Timing of Dennis Wong investment

I haven't encountered anyone even come close to providing a reasonable explanation for the above list without implicating a larger crime, not to mention the mountain of evidence surrounding it.

If anyone wants to try, be my guest, but in both criminal and civil investigations, the law often infers intent from behavior and timing, especially when: “No other plausible explanation fits the facts.”

Add to it Ballmer paid more than others for the shares. He has to stay below 5% ownership but has to transfer enough money. This sure looks like a smoking gun to me. Why else is one of the richest men ever overpaying? Because he believes in trees? There’s zero explanation besides what’s obvious.

Silver’s problem is this scheme is now obvious. Anyone paying attention sees it. If he does nothing this is the new standard and the cap rules become a joke. Legit league or clown show….those are the options.

[inonba]

Most fans are going to not care about this. I doubt most owners will care.

A lot of teams do stuff like this and just don't get caught. Its been alleged that Joe Tsai gave KD/Kyrie a ton of perks too.

Balmer didn't set up a dummy corporation. He invested in a business that also gave an endorsement to Kawhi. This type of stuff happens all the time.

The only difference is that Kawhi was stupid enough to not actually do anything to earn the endorsement. If he even did one event or made one Tweet there would be really no case against what he did.

Circumvention requires actual proof. And there is still no proof at all that Balmer knew about it.

I imagine that the league may pass reforms on the types of player endorsements players can take. But players union would probably be strongly opposed to it.

Bottom line: It won't set a precedent because this has always been happening. Teams will just be more careful.

Good to know that after 89 pages of content, there's still someone looking for that signed confession.

Implication for Salary Cap Circumvention:
Disproportionate size of Kawhi's contract
No deliverables
Timing with Contract Events
Prioritized disbursement
Timing of Dennis Wong investment

I haven't encountered anyone even come close to providing a reasonable explanation for the above list without implicating a larger crime, not to mention the mountain of evidence surrounding it.

If anyone wants to try, be my guest, but in both criminal and civil investigations, the law often infers intent from behavior and timing, especially when: “No other plausible explanation fits the facts.”

Add to it Ballmer paid more than others for the shares. He has to stay below 5% ownership but has to transfer enough money. This sure looks like a smoking gun to me. Why else is one of the richest men ever overpaying? Because he believes in trees? There’s zero explanation besides what’s obvious.

Silver’s problem is this scheme is now obvious. Anyone paying attention sees it. If he does nothing this is the new standard and the cap rules become a joke. Legit league or clown show….those are the options.

I purposely left out the specifics that support the notion of salary cap circumvention and doesn't directly implicate it. Like I said, there's a mountain of supporting evidence that I might not be able to list everything in one instance. Right now, let's keep it simple. Giving a plausible explanation for the above is hard enough.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

The more proof we get, the more it seems impossible to prove that Balmer was involved.

I think worst case Balmer gets fined for negligence. But I won't be surprised if they get no punishment.

Think Joe smith saga wasn't nearly as damning as this . His signed a deals to get bird rights. Didn't break the rules directly but broke the spirit of the rules .

I think having an unannounced endorsement is punishable enough for the player. Late payment story also questionable. The business didn't have to pay Kawhi at all. Could have just sent him to bankruptcy court.

Joe Smith and the Timberwolves did break the rules directly. You can't enter into an unauthorized agreement. There is a date set by the NBA when free agency start for that season. As you can see from recent years, many teams have been caught for the same violation.

If you argree Joe was direct you agree Clippers deserve punishment?

[kobe_vs_jordan]

The more proof we get, the more it seems impossible to prove that Balmer was involved.

I think worst case Balmer gets fined for negligence. But I won't be surprised if they get no punishment.

Think Joe smith saga wasn't nearly as damning as this . His signed a deals to get bird rights. Didn't break the rules directly but broke the spirit of the rules .

I think having an unannounced endorsement is punishable enough for the player. Late payment story also questionable. The business didn't have to pay Kawhi at all. Could have just sent him to bankruptcy court.

As I've said previously the Joe Smith saga had direct evidence implicating Glen Taylor. There is nothing close to that in this case.

Joe never got his money. Kawhi got partially paid. If Joe is considered direct evidence without getting paid surely the clippers money flowing to a company with an unannounced endorsement would be considered direct evidence.

[Hungry]

Most fans are going to not care about this. I doubt most owners will care.

A lot of teams do stuff like this and just don't get caught. Its been alleged that Joe Tsai gave KD/Kyrie a ton of perks too.

Balmer didn't set up a dummy corporation. He invested in a business that also gave an endorsement to Kawhi. This type of stuff happens all the time.

The only difference is that Kawhi was stupid enough to not actually do anything to earn the endorsement. If he even did one event or made one Tweet there would be really no case against what he did.

Circumvention requires actual proof. And there is still no proof at all that Balmer knew about it.

I imagine that the league may pass reforms on the types of player endorsements players can take. But players union would probably be strongly opposed to it.

Bottom line: It won't set a precedent because this has always been happening. Teams will just be more careful.

Good to know that after 89 pages of content, there's still someone looking for that signed confession.

Implication for Salary Cap Circumvention:
Disproportionate size of Kawhi's contract
No deliverables
Timing with Contract Events
Prioritized disbursement
Timing of Dennis Wong investment

I haven't encountered anyone even come close to providing a reasonable explanation for the above list without implicating a larger crime, not to mention the mountain of evidence surrounding it.

If anyone wants to try, be my guest, but in both criminal and civil investigations, the law often infers intent from behavior and timing, especially when: “No other plausible explanation fits the facts.”

Add to it Ballmer paid more than others for the shares. He has to stay below 5% ownership but has to transfer enough money. This sure looks like a smoking gun to me. Why else is one of the richest men ever overpaying? Because he believes in trees? There’s zero explanation besides what’s obvious.

Silver’s problem is this scheme is now obvious. Anyone paying attention sees it. If he does nothing this is the new standard and the cap rules become a joke. Legit league or clown show….those are the options.

I've seen this aspect mentioned a few times and perhaps I'm missing something. If Ballmer received roughly 3% ownership and paid a 10% premium for his shares he'd still be under the 5% ownership limit without the premium. You would be right around there when including the Kawhi shares but don't think they would matter for these purposes

[manlisten]

Question: is Kawhi's Aspiration contract itself not direct evidence of cap circumvention? For starters, it's obviously in writing. Then the CBA clearly states that no sponsorship deal can be substantially in excess of fair market value for any services to be rendered, which in this case there were none. I can't think of an arrangement that could be any more of an explicit violation of the rule as outlined in the CBA. It's not even circumstantial, it's a blatant example of what not to do. It's like ending your dribble and taking 5 steps then saying we still need more evidence that it's a traveling violation. All other circumstances are pretty much irrelevant.

[RookieStar]

I read on reddit that Pablo is gonna drop another banger in a few hours. Wonder if its still be gonna about Kawhi or sonething else