Free Agent/Trade/Waiver Thread, 2025-26, part 2

[GoCeltics123]

Is Simons in the Celtics' long term plans? That starts with the question of whether or not Simons is willing to take a steep discount from what he is making this year.

If he's not in the team's long term plans, what's the point of giving him minutes when there are so many other players you are trying to develop?

He’s not going to be here part this year regardless of what happens imo. He’s not Brad’s type of player

What's that supposed to mean?

Brad traded a 1st round pick + 5 players (including Nesmith) for Brogdon. Simons is kind of like Brogdon except better, younger and less injury prone.

Brad also signed Dennis Schroeder. Simons is younger and better.

Brad drafted Scheierman. Simons is better, more proven at the NBA level..

Brad extended Pritchard. Simons is less of a grinder but overall more talented, more athletic, better driver..

Brad brought in Lonnie Walker to training camp and probably would have signed him to a standard contract if we were in a better financial position..

Is there a good chance that Simons gets traded by the deadline? Yeah.

But is it wise to make such definitive statements like the one you just made? I don't think so. None of us have a crystal ball. None of us know with 100% certainty what will happen. All we can do is make educated guesses on what *might* happen or we can say what we would do if we were the Celtics GM.

There's several posters on here who said that Simons would definitely be gone by now. And guess what? He's still here. Those people look silly now. And there's a chance that people will look silly if they say things like "he won't make it past this yr"..

I'm sure there was plenty of people who thought Mazzulla would be gone by now. He's still here. There's probably plenty of people who thought Pritchard would be gone by now too..

Brogdon is a much different player than Simons, and that 2022-23 team was trying to win a title. This team's goal is trying to get under the tax and play young guys, they got Simons for Jrue because Simons is an expiring and Jrue has 3 years left, not really because of what Simons is as a player. They've been actively trying to trade him from the minute they got him, but they don't want to trade him for negative value (which is smart), so that's the only reason he's still here.

Guys like Simons, Sexton, Cam Thomas, Malik Monk, etc. they just don't have any value anymore. I don't even necessarily agree with the reasoning, because I think most of those guys can help teams, but teams look at them like they're chuckers who don't add to winning. Simons' value to the Celtics is that he's an expiring, basically. And we're hoping a team like the Bucks or Heat wants him for that reason.

Also Dennis and Lonnie were signed because the contract value at the time we got them was absolutely absurd, we basically had to do it. I don't think Brad would've wanted to pay either of those guys $10-15 mil on a multi-year deal, and he'd have to do that with Simons, so he's going to be gone at some point.

[Fierce1]

Yeah, Simons could be gone at some point, but not Sep. 7 or Sep. 9 or Sep. 10 or Sep. 15.

Going under the repeater is a strong possibility.

But not before Simons plays for the Cs.

[Curmudgeon]

Yeah, Simons could be gone at some point, but not Sep. 7 or Sep. 9 or Sep. 10 or Sep. 15.

Going under the repeater is a strong possibility.

But not before Simons plays for the Cs.

Unfortunate, but true.

[cl2117]

Simmons is a bigger version of Cam Thomas. Empty stats and no impact on winning, the anti-Derrick White. Might be best to let his contract expire and free up all that cap space instead of taking on salary and shelling out 2nd round picks unless you can get a guy that helps in the front court.

Chances are, you're only saying that because he happened to get drafted by Portland. He's been on a bad team with bad coaching for 7 years.

Let's imagine for a moment, he was drafted by Denver and Jamal Murray was drafted by Portland. What would you say then? I'd say there's a pretty good chance that Simons would have a ring right now and be making $40mil a year or more.

Or if he was drafted by Cleveland and Garland was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Detroit. And Cade was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Dallas (then later signed with the Knicks) and Jalen Brunson was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Utah, while Donovan Mitchell was drafted by Portland?

Is Paolo empty stats? What about De'Aaron Fox? Lamelo? Ja? Some might say that the only difference between all of these guys I mentioned and Simons is they had better teammates and better coaches than Simons.

There's a few differences between Simons and Cam Thomas:

-Simons has averaged 17+ PPG while playing in 45+ games in each of the last 4 seasons. Thomas has only done that once..and it was not last season
-Thomas only played in 25 games last season, due to injury. Simons has no injury concerns
-Simons has been over league average TS% while playing in 45+ games in 3 seasons. Thomas has done it 0 times.
-Simons has had a TS% of 56+ while playing in 45+ games 4 times. Only once for Thomas
-Career assist % Simons at 19. Thomas at only 14.
-Simons has had an assist % of 20+ while playing in 45+ games 3 times. Thomas has done it 0 times
-Simons has had an assist % of 15+ while playing in 45+ games 4 times. Thomas has done it 1 time
-Simons had started 25+ games in each of the past 4 seasons. Thomas has only started 25+ games in 1 season
-Eye test tells me that Simons is more clutch, is better at driving the ball to the basket, a better shooter, is a better passer, a better defender than Thomas
-Simons has a higher career BPM and higher career VORP

The only difference between Simons and the guys you mentioned is better coaching and teammates?

All the guys you listed are way better than Simons. You've got #1 picks, top 5 picks, Brunson who is one of the biggest underdog 2nd round overachievers ever, Donovan Mitchell who led mediocre Jazz and Cleveland squads to the playoffs. Simons and Thomas are really the only comparable players in your whole post.

Your posts are always so long and detailed and well researched and yet you always twist yourself into such pretzels to make specious arguments that undermine whatever point you're trying to make. It must be exhausting.

[Hal14]

Simmons is a bigger version of Cam Thomas. Empty stats and no impact on winning, the anti-Derrick White. Might be best to let his contract expire and free up all that cap space instead of taking on salary and shelling out 2nd round picks unless you can get a guy that helps in the front court.

Chances are, you're only saying that because he happened to get drafted by Portland. He's been on a bad team with bad coaching for 7 years.

Let's imagine for a moment, he was drafted by Denver and Jamal Murray was drafted by Portland. What would you say then? I'd say there's a pretty good chance that Simons would have a ring right now and be making $40mil a year or more.

Or if he was drafted by Cleveland and Garland was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Detroit. And Cade was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Dallas (then later signed with the Knicks) and Jalen Brunson was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Utah, while Donovan Mitchell was drafted by Portland?

Is Paolo empty stats? What about De'Aaron Fox? Lamelo? Ja? Some might say that the only difference between all of these guys I mentioned and Simons is they had better teammates and better coaches than Simons.

There's a few differences between Simons and Cam Thomas:

-Simons has averaged 17+ PPG while playing in 45+ games in each of the last 4 seasons. Thomas has only done that once..and it was not last season
-Thomas only played in 25 games last season, due to injury. Simons has no injury concerns
-Simons has been over league average TS% while playing in 45+ games in 3 seasons. Thomas has done it 0 times.
-Simons has had a TS% of 56+ while playing in 45+ games 4 times. Only once for Thomas
-Career assist % Simons at 19. Thomas at only 14.
-Simons has had an assist % of 20+ while playing in 45+ games 3 times. Thomas has done it 0 times
-Simons has had an assist % of 15+ while playing in 45+ games 4 times. Thomas has done it 1 time
-Simons had started 25+ games in each of the past 4 seasons. Thomas has only started 25+ games in 1 season
-Eye test tells me that Simons is more clutch, is better at driving the ball to the basket, a better shooter, is a better passer, a better defender than Thomas
-Simons has a higher career BPM and higher career VORP

The only difference between Simons and the guys you mentioned is better coaching and teammates?

All the guys you listed are way better than Simons. You've got #1 picks, top 5 picks, Brunson who is one of the biggest underdog 2nd round overachievers ever, Donovan Mitchell who led mediocre Jazz and Cleveland squads to the playoffs. Simons and Thomas are really the only comparable players in your whole post.

The keywords in my post were "some might say". Some as in some people which doesn't necessarily mean I am one of those people. Meaning don't take the post too literally which apparently you did. It's like saying kind of, sort of, maybe, perhaps, etc. Stuff people say so that people don't take their post too literally and people don't think they are trying to make some really bold, definitive claim..

What does the pick number have to do with anything? Simons was drafted higher than Jokic, higher than Siakam, higher than Derrick White, Desmond Bane, Draymond, Green, Brunson, etc. The point I was responding to was someone saying Simons is "empty stats". What does how high he went in the draft have to do with him being empty stats as a 7 year NBA vet?

Cade, Lamelo, paolo, Trae, Lillard, Garland, Ja, Fox and Scottie Barnes aren't empty stats because they were top 5 picks...huh? How does that make any sense? Brunson isn't an empty stats because he was a 2nd round pick? Again, that makes no sense.

Simons didn't play college ball. That's why he went much lower in the draft. He was ranked 7th in his class coming out of HS..in that same class, Garland was ranked 15th:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/recruit_rankings_2018.html

Maxey was drafted 21st and Simons was drafted 24th..basically the same thing. I could have used Maxey as well. He's considered a superstar by many people, but if he was drafted by Portland and Simons was drafted by Philly, the perception of both would likely be much different.

Herro was not a top 10 pick. Fairly similar player to Simons..same thing..if Simons was drafted by Miami and if Herro was drafted by POR, the perception of both would likely be much different. Are Herro and Maxey empty stats? I don't think so.

Mitchell never led mediocre teams to the playoffs. He had much better teammates and coaches than Simons has ever had. Utah had DPOY Gobert in his prime and a bunch of good vets like Conley, Ingles, etc. and a coach (Snyder) who was much better than any coach Simons had in POR.

If you think Cam Thomas is the closest one to Simons, that's your opinion. I listed plenty of differences between them, though..

Cam Thomas is a good player. And he's only 23 yrs old..who knows, he could end up being a star..considering he still has quite a bit of development ahead of him (as does Simons) since NBA players typically peak around age 28-31 and typically get better until then.

The closest player to Simons *might* be Poole. Is that so bad? Poole killed us in the NBA finals and that was when he was only 22. If we have Simons for his age 26-28 seasons, is it really that farfetched that he could help us win a title, playing a somewhat similar role to the one Poole played on the Warriors 2022 title team? Hell, Simons might even be better - players are usually better during age 26-28 seasons than they are at age 22.

[cl2117]

Chances are, you're only saying that because he happened to get drafted by Portland. He's been on a bad team with bad coaching for 7 years.

Let's imagine for a moment, he was drafted by Denver and Jamal Murray was drafted by Portland. What would you say then? I'd say there's a pretty good chance that Simons would have a ring right now and be making $40mil a year or more.

Or if he was drafted by Cleveland and Garland was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Detroit. And Cade was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Dallas (then later signed with the Knicks) and Jalen Brunson was drafted by Portland.

Or if he was drafted by Utah, while Donovan Mitchell was drafted by Portland?

Is Paolo empty stats? What about De'Aaron Fox? Lamelo? Ja? Some might say that the only difference between all of these guys I mentioned and Simons is they had better teammates and better coaches than Simons.

There's a few differences between Simons and Cam Thomas:

-Simons has averaged 17+ PPG while playing in 45+ games in each of the last 4 seasons. Thomas has only done that once..and it was not last season
-Thomas only played in 25 games last season, due to injury. Simons has no injury concerns
-Simons has been over league average TS% while playing in 45+ games in 3 seasons. Thomas has done it 0 times.
-Simons has had a TS% of 56+ while playing in 45+ games 4 times. Only once for Thomas
-Career assist % Simons at 19. Thomas at only 14.
-Simons has had an assist % of 20+ while playing in 45+ games 3 times. Thomas has done it 0 times
-Simons has had an assist % of 15+ while playing in 45+ games 4 times. Thomas has done it 1 time
-Simons had started 25+ games in each of the past 4 seasons. Thomas has only started 25+ games in 1 season
-Eye test tells me that Simons is more clutch, is better at driving the ball to the basket, a better shooter, is a better passer, a better defender than Thomas
-Simons has a higher career BPM and higher career VORP

The only difference between Simons and the guys you mentioned is better coaching and teammates?

All the guys you listed are way better than Simons. You've got #1 picks, top 5 picks, Brunson who is one of the biggest underdog 2nd round overachievers ever, Donovan Mitchell who led mediocre Jazz and Cleveland squads to the playoffs. Simons and Thomas are really the only comparable players in your whole post.

The keywords in my post were "some might say". Some as in some people which doesn't necessarily mean I am one of those people. Meaning don't take the post too literally which apparently you did.

What does the pick number have to do with anything? Simons was drafted higher than Jokic, higher than Siakam, higher than Derrick White, Desmond Bane, Draymond, Green, Brunson, etc. The point I was responding to was someone saying Simons is "empty stats". What does how high he went in the draft have to do with him being empty stats as a 7 year NBA vet?

Cade, Lamelo, paolo, Trae, Lillard, Garland, Ja, Fox and Scottie Barnes aren't empty stats because they were top 5 picks...huh? How does that make any sense? Brunson isn't an empty stats because he was a 2nd round pick? Again, that makes no sense.

Simons didn't play college ball. That's why he went much lower in the draft. He was ranked 7th in his class coming out of HS..in that same class, Garland was ranked 15th:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/recruit_rankings_2018.html

Maxey was drafted 21st and Simons was drafted 24th..basically the same thing. I could have used Maxey as well. He's considered a superstar by many people, but if he was drafted by Portland and Simons was drafted by Philly, the perception of both would likely be much different.

Herro was not a top 10 pick. Fairly similar player to Simons..same thing..if Simons was drafted by Miami and if Herro was drafted by POR, the perception of both would likely be much different. Are Herro and Maxey empty stats? I don't think so.

Mitchell never led mediocre teams to the playoffs. He had much better teammates and coaches than Simons has ever had. Utah had DPOY Gobert in his prime and a bunch of good vets like Conley, Ingles, etc. and a coach (Snyder) who was much better than any coach Simons had in POR.

If you think Cam Thomas is the closest one to Simons, that's your opinion. I listed plenty of differences between them, though..

"Some might say" sure, but here are two essays from you also saying the same things, so forgive the confusion.

It's not so much the draft position as it is the fact that you've listed out 10+ literal all-stars in comparison to a guy who most pundits don't think we could give away for free and frame their developmental arcs as some sort of sliding doors moment rather than acknowledging that they're just better players. Simons is not even close to being on the level of literally any of the guys you've highlighted apart from Cam Thomas and probably Tyler Herro.

I guess my point is you do yourself a disservice by going so heavy handed with your argument that it starts to lose all meaning. I'm pretty confident that someone who follows basketball as closely as you do can see the talent/value differential between all the guys you listed apart from Cam Thomas and Simons (as do clearly all other NBA GMs).

Could things have been different for Simons and those other guys if they were drafted into different situations? Absolutely. Could SImons have untapped potential? Absolutely. Is it ridiculous to try to compare Simons to Paolo and Lamelo and Cade etc. and frame the variance between them to be a product of their environments rather than the fact that those guys are just simply better? Yeah, yeah it is (especially when you consider half the teams these guys are on are also dumpster fires).

[bucknersrevenge]

Simons for 7 years has been a below average efficiency.

Incorrect. league average TS% is usually around 58. Last season it was 57.6.

Simons has had 3 seasons of over 58.0 TS.

Also, you're ignoring some important context:

a) Age. Brunson is 3 yrs older than Simons. Typically, the younger the player is, the less efficient they are. Typically, NBA players peak sometime around age 28-31. There's usually improvement until then. Simons just turned 26. His best basketball is likely still to come. Yet he's already been over league average TS% 3 times

Trae is about same age as Simons. TS% last year:
Trae 56.7
Simons 55.7

Trae is higher but not significantly higher. They're pretty close. Of course, Trae is better. But he also gets paid WAY more, is ATL's franchise player. Point is, guards of this age with high usage, typically aren't much higher than Simons is in terms of TS%..

b) Usage. The higher the usage, the harder it is to have really high efficiency. Look at guys like Maxey, Cade Cunningham and Lamelo Ball. Young guards with high usage. Last yr TS%..all of them were below league average:

Donovan Mitchell 57.5
Trae 56.7
Cade 56.5
Ja 56.3
Maxey 56.2
De'Aaron Fox 56.0
Simons 55.7
Lamelo 53.6

They're mostly around that 56 mark..

c) Teammates. The better the teammates are, the easier it is to have high efficiency. The worse the teammates are, the harder it is to have high efficiency. Lamelo's hornets team was dog poo last season..he's young, very high usage, hence the low TS% he had. Maxey's team was also very bad last season - otherwise his TS% would have been higher. Fox was on 2 teams last year..one of them was slightly better than Simons' blazers team, while the other was slightly worse (the spurs who Fox didn't play many games for) and he is slightly older than Simons. And he and Simons had nearly identical TS%.

Neither are very good defenders. Yet look at the contract Fox just got. 4 yrs, $229 mil. Sure, probably a bit of an overpay, but still. It shows that Simons is much better than some folks on here seem to think.

Garland had a TS% last year of around 60. However, if we take the cumulative TS% over the past 4 seasons of both Garland and Simons, they're pretty much the same. Yet Garland is on a 5 yr, $197 mil contract. Garland's TS% spiked up last year though because Cleveland was such a freakishly good team. His teammates were awesome, which meant less defensive pressure on him, and better ball movement - both of those factors together = easier shots for Garland = higher TS%.

Simply pulling numbers and posting them can be misleading. Gotta factor in the context.

Not to mention that if we look at the past 7 years and and rank the 30 NBA teams in terms of how good their coaching has been during that time, Portland might be dead last on that list.

Young guard with high usage, the no. 1 option on a bad team with bad coaching. That's a recipe for a low TS% if I've ever seen one. The fact that he's actually been over league average TS% 3 times given the circumstances is a damn near miracle..it shows how talented he is.

Can't imagine how good he would be in Boston with lower usage (which means higher efficiency), plus he'll be older and closer to his peak (means higher efficiency) and he'll have better teammates (means higher efficiency). Not to mention he'll have better coaching and be playing in the weaker conference.

Read on Twitter

[Fierce1]

This is a fresh start for Simons.

He's now on a winning team.

The only way to find out is after we see him actually play for the Cs this season.

[robdog_5]

This argument never seems to end. Let's wait and see how he does

[ConstableGeneva]

Who is Alperny Simmons? And why is he being constantly talked about?