2024-25 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V1.0

[God Squad]

Agbaji for Holmes would be a great deal for both sides. We'd slowly ladder that trade to be even better.

We are talking Daron Holmes yeah?

I sure as hell hope so. Every time I see Holmes on this board, I think Richaun.

[Morris_Shatford]

Agbaji for Holmes would be a great deal for both sides. We'd slowly ladder that trade to be even better.

We are talking Daron Holmes yeah?

I sure as hell hope so. Every time I see Holmes on this board, I think Richaun.

Richaun is too busy dominating the greek league.

[God Squad]

We are talking Daron Holmes yeah?

I sure as hell hope so. Every time I see Holmes on this board, I think Richaun.

Richaun is too busy dominating the greek league.

I know, just some PTSD over acquiring Holmes threads/talk over the years.

[LoveMyRaps]

I sure as hell hope so. Every time I see Holmes on this board, I think Richaun.

Richaun is too busy dominating the greek league.

I know, just some PTSD over acquiring Holmes threads/talk over the years.

Anthony Randolph
Richaun Holmes
Myles Turner

[CazOnReal]

We are talking Daron Holmes yeah?

The guy who doesn't project to be a shooter and is coming off of a tear before he's played a game in the NBA, correct

Typically stupid "mystery box" trade

[Thaddy]

We are talking Daron Holmes yeah?

The guy who doesn't project to be a shooter and is coming off of a tear before he's played a game in the NBA, correct

Typically stupid "mystery box" trade

He performed well in Summer League, better than Agbaji ever has. It's a gamble but a decent one that helps our cap situation.

[CazOnReal]

We are talking Daron Holmes yeah?

The guy who doesn't project to be a shooter and is coming off of a tear before he's played a game in the NBA, correct

Typically stupid "mystery box" trade

He performed well in Summer League, better than Agbaji ever has. It's a gamble but a decent one that helps our cap situation.

Summer League performance has zero correlation to NBA readiness or a player's ability at the NBA level. See: Trae Young had an infamously poor showing at Summer League but had a great rookie season & is having an overall great career.

I'm taking the known talent over the unknown 9 times out of 10.

[Thaddy]

The guy who doesn't project to be a shooter and is coming off of a tear before he's played a game in the NBA, correct

Typically stupid "mystery box" trade

He performed well in Summer League, better than Agbaji ever has. It's a gamble but a decent one that helps our cap situation.

Summer League performance has zero correlation to NBA readiness or a player's ability at the NBA level. See: Trae Young had an infamously poor showing at Summer League but had a great rookie season & is having an overall great career.

I'm taking the known talent over the unknown 9 times out of 10.

Agbaji is older and has a bench player ceiling. There's no known talent here.

[CazOnReal]

He performed well in Summer League, better than Agbaji ever has. It's a gamble but a decent one that helps our cap situation.

Summer League performance has zero correlation to NBA readiness or a player's ability at the NBA level. See: Trae Young had an infamously poor showing at Summer League but had a great rookie season & is having an overall great career.

I'm taking the known talent over the unknown 9 times out of 10.

Agbaji is older and has a bench player ceiling. There's no known talent here.

Yeah who wants a 40% 3-point shooter to come off the bench for their playoff rotation, absolutely disgusting!

Holmes isn't exactly a young prospect - he literally entered the NBA at the same age as Ochai did at 22 - not to mention he has a major injury that Agbaji has never had, and that's on top of Holmes not exactly projecting as some high ceiling tweener. He went 22nd in a bad draft and nothing in his scouting report suggests he's poised to have a higher role than bench player ceiling - the label you slapped on to OA.

While there's an argument to be made about getting ahead of the "pick 2, trade 1-2" SG rotation issue i.e. getting a proper backup big like Lively or <insert year 3-4 proven young 4/5 here> since reduced minutes means reduced production and thus their trade value might lower, trading Ochai only exacerbates the team's overall lack of spacing since there's nothing to suggest DaRon will become a stretch 4/5, not to mention the generally unbalanced set of contracts the Raptors have right now. If Agbaji is asking for $20M AAV? Sure, make calls to flip him since lots of teams will have cap space next year to potentially throw him an offer sheet we refuse to/can't match. As is, this is a stupid trade suggestion when nothing about Holmes screams high ceiling - let alone high floor - plain and simple.

[Thaddy]

Summer League performance has zero correlation to NBA readiness or a player's ability at the NBA level. See: Trae Young had an infamously poor showing at Summer League but had a great rookie season & is having an overall great career.

I'm taking the known talent over the unknown 9 times out of 10.

Agbaji is older and has a bench player ceiling. There's no known talent here.

Yeah who wants a 40% 3-point shooter to come off the bench for their playoff rotation, absolutely disgusting!

Holmes isn't exactly a young prospect - he literally entered the NBA at the same age as Ochai did at 22 - not to mention he has a major injury that Agbaji has never had, and that's on top of Holmes not exactly projecting as some high ceiling tweener. He went 22nd in a bad draft and nothing in his scouting report suggests he's poised to have a higher role than bench player ceiling - the label you slapped on to OA.

While there's an argument to be made about getting ahead of the "pick 2, trade 1-2" SG rotation issue i.e. getting a proper backup big like Lively or <insert year 3-4 proven young 4/5 here> since reduced minutes means reduced production and thus their trade value might lower, trading Ochai only exacerbates the team's overall lack of spacing since there's nothing to suggest DaRon will become a stretch 4/5, not to mention the generally unbalanced set of contracts the Raptors have right now. If Agbaji is asking for $20M AAV? Sure, make calls to flip him since lots of teams will have cap space next year to potentially throw him an offer sheet we refuse to/can't match. As is, this is a stupid trade suggestion when nothing about Holmes screams high ceiling - let alone high floor - plain and simple.

Short version:
Agbaji was traded for the 29th pick in that same bad draft. Going by pick position I guess Holmes is better by your logic.

Long version:
Agbaji doesn't have a lot of three point volume above the corners which makes him a weak shooter. He's just a crappy player with a low amount of skill. He was being played as a SG-PF hybrid at one point because he lacks guard skills. Holmes is 6-10 and shot some threes in college while showing year over year improvement. He's going to be better and more useful than Agbaji since he could likely fill in as a third big right away. Then you have basic supply/demand, stretch bigs are just way more valuable and Holmes has shown some potential to be one. That's just worth a risk for a rebuilding team, especially for a SG-PF hybrid you bought for a 29th pick, in that same bad draft you mentioned.

[CazOnReal]

Short version:
Agbaji was traded for the 29th pick in that same bad draft. Going by pick position I guess Holmes is better by your logic.

Because as we all know, a player getting traded for a bad draft pick automatically means they're bad instead it being a move that a savvy front office makes i.e. buying low on someone who had a notable sophomore slump while overall having limited assets.

Miss me with this nonsense. Several beat reporters were surprised Ochai was even available and praised the trade given how lacking in value that pick was because it was expected to be in the bottom 3 of the "Worst draft since 2000".

Long version:
Agbaji doesn't have a lot of three point volume above the corners which makes him a weak shooter. He's just a crappy player with a low amount of skill.

Yeah you can also miss me with this too. Ochai has a simple role but that's not inherently a bad thing for a bench player - and he fulfills that role quite well.

You're also just...wrong about Agbaji's non-corner 3s? Like, he doesn't take as many outside of the corner but it's not like he's missing the shots he's taking from behind the arc. In all but one area he was shooting over 38% from that area last season:



But even if that were the case, no one is asking him to regularly take 3s outside of the corner or to take a shot from midrange. He's asked to play good defense and take a 3-point shot when he has a good look or drive to the rim - and when he does take a shot, his efficiency is amongst the best in the league for 3-point shooters. Yes it's on low volume and he's a bit undersized for a 3 but again, you're not asking much for a bench 3 & D.

Holmes is 6-10 and shot some threes in college while showing year over year improvement.

He shot 83 3s total in college during his final year for an average of 2.5 3s a game. There is zero consistency in your argument when that is the definition of low volume - he certainly shot less than Ochai did in college who was on higher volume & making more shots at that (40% of 6.5 attempts per game) - and there's plenty of examples of college bigs whose shot either doesn't translate to the NBA (Holmes isn't exactly a good FT shooter which is a much sharper indicator of 3-point potential) or just flatout weren't asked to take 3s as part of their shot diet.

Holmes also isn't especially notable as a defender even relative to his position and, once again, is coming off of a major injury that we don't know how much it will affect him. It's a lot of "ifs", "mights" and no guarantee they're even good as a backup big man, just The potential of potentially being a Pontential Guy™.

And no, a few Summer League games is not an argument in favor of trading for him any more than one would make for, say, making AJ Lawson a starter just because he had some good outings in what is ultimately a showcase for the NBA.

He's going to be better and more useful than Agbaji since he could likely fill in as a third big right away.

Noted hole in most teams rosters...a 3rd big man.

I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense.

[Zeno]

Probably not going to effect the Raps, but Dario Saric is able to be aggregated in trade starting on the 13th, so I predict the Kings could be announcing a trade soon.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

For the record, I wouldn't lock Ochai in as a 40% shooter moving forward. Most of his looks have been wide open on C&S and he is a sub 35% 3pt shooter with a defender within 6 feet of him in his rookie season and last year (his only good shooting seasons). If he's really only good on wide open C&S 3's he's not a reliable shooter. Similar to Issac Okoro who is a 38% 3PT shooter on paper, but then you dig in and realize he's being left open and his %s fall sub 30% when he's even semi contested.

It was already mentioned his lack of ball skills and smaller than average size for someone who is essentially a forward on offense. He is an extremely dependent role player who I don't see cannibalizing playing time from Gradey/Dick/RJ who we have more vested interest in. I think he's an easier guy to move to have the team duck the tax.

Caz's post made me want to look into Holmes's Bartovik numbers and he seemed to do decently from a STL%/BLK%/BPM perspective in comparison to other good bigs. Not exaclty a rim protector or good OREB though. His 3PT% also stayed pretty consistent around 36% on low volume and wasn't all over the place during the college season. It would definitely be a swing, but I think the upside is more apparent than with whatever we have in Ochai even if he isn't as valuable in the present.

[ConSarnit]

For the record, I wouldn't lock Ochai in as a 40% shooter moving forward. Most of his looks have been wide open on C&S and he is a sub 35% 3pt shooter with a defender within 6 feet of him in his rookie season and last year (his only good shooting seasons). If he's really only good on wide open C&S 3's he's not a reliable shooter. Similar to Issac Okoro who is a 38% 3PT shooter on paper, but then you dig in and realize he's being left open and his %s fall sub 30% when he's even semi contested.

It was already mentioned his lack of ball skills and smaller than average size for someone who is essentially a forward on offense. He is an extremely dependent role player who I don't see cannibalizing playing time from Gradey/Dick/RJ who we have more vested interest in. I think he's an easier guy to move to have the team duck the tax.

Caz's post made me want to look into Holmes's Bartovik numbers and he seemed to do decently from a STL%/BLK%/BPM perspective in comparison to other good bigs. Not exaclty a rim protector or good OREB though. His 3PT% also stayed pretty consistent around 36% on low volume and wasn't all over the place during the college season. It would definitely be a swing, but I think the upside is more apparent than with whatever we have in Ochai even if he isn't as valuable in the present.

While I too have some questions regarding sustainability regarding Ochai’s shooting it’s not fair to compare him to Okoro.

Agbaji was a plus shooter from both corners and above the break (the most valuable 3pt area) last season. Okoro is only a good 3pt shooter from the left corner. You can put Agabji anywhere behind the 3pt line and he is a threat to hit 3’s at an above average level. Okoro can only be played in 1 small area as a “threat”. Not to mention that Okoro takes a higher % of “wide open” 3’s than Agbaji too (89% vs 70%). If Agabji can come anywhere close to replicating his shooting from last year he is far more of a threat than Okoro.

Okoro is basically teetering on the Mendoza line for 3pt shooting as far as guards go based on his inability to hit 3’s unless completely unguarded in the left corner.

[Saul Goodman]

Id give Abaji a big role to start this season to see what we have. He seems like a guy who can become Aaron Nesmith on a contender and hopefully we are that contender lol

[Thaddy]

Id give Abaji a big role to start this season to see what we have. He seems like a guy who can become Aaron Nesmith on a contender and hopefully we are that contender lol

Yeah Dick and Walter will need to compete we have them under more contract control. Agbaji should be the first guard off the bench. Pump his value and trade him for a big. We need minutes for Walter, Dick and Martin.

[djsunyc]

folks, alot of these players are young. nothing is a given until they do it for many years. enjoy the process.

[Pointgod]

Id give Abaji a big role to start this season to see what we have. He seems like a guy who can become Aaron Nesmith on a contender and hopefully we are that contender lol

To do that you either need to trade RJ or bring him off the bench.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Any takers on Lamelo for IQ and Ochai?

Swing on a high ceiling player with a risk given health concerns + unserious play on a bad team up till now. Already signed until 2027 and his contract peaks at $46 million in his final year. If we can hide him defensively with guys like CMB and Scottie, I think he can raise the ceiling of the offense. I don't know if Darko is the coach that can reel a guy like him in.

Have to really believe in his talent but he's one of the few star tier players that could be available and fits our core roster

[Thaddy]

Id give Abaji a big role to start this season to see what we have. He seems like a guy who can become Aaron Nesmith on a contender and hopefully we are that contender lol

To do that you either need to trade RJ or bring him off the bench.

I wouldn't mind benching RJ. There shouldn't be a single guaranteed starting spot on our team. If Agbaji, Walter, or Dick look like they provide the best skills in terms of POA and shooting which we need in the starting line up I would put them in that role.