Semi-OT: Pablo Torre Investigation into Kawhie/Clippers

[DropStep]

Lost in the craziness of this story is how big of a douche Kawhi appears to be. Seems like he was trying to get inappropriate side benefits from every team he dealt with. As if the $100M+ contract wasn't enough.

I can't help but picture Uncle Dennis sitting in NBA team offices in an ill-fitting suit, sing-songing "re-TAIN-errrrr!" at befuddled team officials like Affleck in Good Will Hunting.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

https://awfulannouncing.com/nba/channing-frye-pablo-torre-kawhi-leonard-reporting-snitchin.html

“First of all, why you snitchin’? Why you snitchin’? Who cares?” [Channing] Frye asked of Torre, causing Jefferson to put his head in his hands and Perkins to look down.

What a buffoon. When Kendrick Perkins thinks you're a moron, you didn't eat like you thought you did.

"why would you report on billionaire fraud, bro?" jeez louise

[MAQ]

Do others agree that Kawhi looks like a douche here?

I dont hold that opinion at all, but interested in other perspectives.

[DuckIII]

Do others agree that Kawhi looks like a douche here?

I dont hold that opinion at all, but interested in other perspectives.

Kawhi is a douche. People just give him a free pass because he’s awesome, socially awkward and quiet.

Do we not remember when he intentionally healthy scratched a title contending Spurs team to force a trade?

This element of the story is not a surprise.

[jnrjr79]

Do others agree that Kawhi looks like a douche here?

I dont hold that opinion at all, but interested in other perspectives.

Kawhi is a douche. People just give him a free pass because he’s awesome, socially awkward and quiet.

Do we not remember when he intentionally healthy scratched a title contending Spurs team to force a trade?

This element of the story is not a surprise.

To me, if Kawhi was making demands on teams to violate the CBA to give him more money (and put those teams in league jeopardy), “douche” is maybe not the exact word I’d use, but it’s obviously scummy behavior.

If the question here is “is Kawhi a good guy,” the answer seems to be no. But introverts don’t seem to get tagged with the “bad dude” label as much as people who yap a lot.

[Ccwatercraft]

Do others agree that Kawhi looks like a douche here?

I dont hold that opinion at all, but interested in other perspectives.

Yes, absolutely.

[dabig3]

Do others agree that Kawhi looks like a douche here?

I dont hold that opinion at all, but interested in other perspectives.

Kawhi is a douche. People just give him a free pass because he’s awesome, socially awkward and quiet.

Do we not remember when he intentionally healthy scratched a title contending Spurs team to force a trade?

This element of the story is not a surprise.

That magical Toronto run gave him a lot of good will and made him a darling to defend - well outside of those in San Antonio of course. But they're in a smaller market so ultimately what they were saying didn't matter in the greater discussion at the time.

Spurs fans have to be feeling extra vindicated after all these years. They were calling out the scummy tactics of "Uncle Dennis" long before he became a household name.

[kodo]

I actually think the biggest story here isn't that Ballmer tried to circumvent the cap (poorly), Other teams find legal ways of getting star players millions of dollars, usually through closed door (AI startup in 2018 announces limited investor pool of early silicon valley investors...and Kevin Durant) investment opportunities. But the more eye opening insinuation was that Kawhi purposely sat out unless he got his extra payments.

If Silver is convinced there was a pay-to-play scheme from Kawhi, I'd expect serious action taken against Kawhi than Ballmer to stop any future player from even contemplating that.

[dougthonus]

Do others agree that Kawhi looks like a douche here?

I dont hold that opinion at all, but interested in other perspectives.

Kawhi is a douche. People just give him a free pass because he’s awesome, socially awkward and quiet.

Do we not remember when he intentionally healthy scratched a title contending Spurs team to force a trade?

This element of the story is not a surprise.

People gave him a free pass? I thought he was a douche since his SA days

That said, I don't mind, I think most superstar players are douches and if I was a superstar player, I'd also probably be a douche. Being a douche seems highly correlated to having infinite money and 100% of the people you meet kissing your ass.

[Indomitable]

Do others agree that Kawhi looks like a douche here?

I dont hold that opinion at all, but interested in other perspectives.

Kawhi is a douche. People just give him a free pass because he’s awesome, socially awkward and quiet.

Do we not remember when he intentionally healthy scratched a title contending Spurs team to force a trade?

This element of the story is not a surprise.

People gave him a free pass? I thought he was a douche since his SA days

That said, I don't mind, I think most superstar players are douches and if I was a superstar player, I'd also probably be a douche. Being a douche seems highly correlated to having infinite money and 100% of the people you meet kissing your ass.

Really people came hard after me when I said it.

Karma got the Clippers.

[kodo]

Fischer: "From my conversations with the various powers that be...from high level sources around the NBA that they do not expect any resolution to this until after the All Star game."

"Several sources I spoke to even joked they're going to announce these punishments these findings whatever in August of next year."

[Chi town]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281952/Report-Steve-Ballmer-Clippers-Funded-$118M-To-Aspiration-Over-18-Months

Seems to just get worse for Ballmer.

[Evil_Headband]

I'm not sure if any of you are following Mark Cuban on Twitter regarding all this. He is making a compelling case for Ballmer and Wong being scammed including lies and falsified data that would have been provided to them. Cuban is a must read to fully follow this story.

Of course, this doesn't answer the question of why Sanberg would have agreed to this Kawhi marketing contract. We have heard nothing from the Kawhi camp. Sanberg won't talk about this but my understanding is the NBA law firm can talk to Kawhi's agent. I'm not sure how much they will learn from him.

Most likely situation is Ballmer and the Clippers are cleared of wrongdoing. Time will tell though. Maybe there is a smoking gun out there.

[jnrjr79]

I'm not sure if any of you are following Mark Cuban on Twitter regarding all this. He is making a compelling case for Ballmer and Wong being scammed including lies and falsified data that would have been provided to them. Cuban is a must read to fully follow this story.

Of course, this doesn't answer the question of why Sanberg would have agreed to this Kawhi marketing contract. We have heard nothing from the Kawhi camp. Sanberg won't talk about this but my understanding is the NBA law firm can talk to Kawhi's agent. I'm not sure how much they will learn from him.

Most likely situation is Ballmer and the Clippers are cleared of wrongdoing. Time will tell though. Maybe there is a smoking gun out there.

I don’t find Cuban’s case particularly convincing, but it’s useful having a smart person argue the other side of it just to sort of stress test Torre’s reporting and theory.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281952/Report-Steve-Ballmer-Clippers-Funded-$118M-To-Aspiration-Over-18-Months

Seems to just get worse for Ballmer.

my thing is how is this tree-planting service getting hundreds of millions in investment? what if the billionaire just, you know, spent that money to reforest the Amazon or something?

'sustainability-as-a-service' has to be the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard. then again, anyone trying to get rich off this is a regular moron.

[LateNight]

I'm not sure if any of you are following Mark Cuban on Twitter regarding all this. He is making a compelling case for Ballmer and Wong being scammed including lies and falsified data that would have been provided to them. Cuban is a must read to fully follow this story.

Of course, this doesn't answer the question of why Sanberg would have agreed to this Kawhi marketing contract. We have heard nothing from the Kawhi camp. Sanberg won't talk about this but my understanding is the NBA law firm can talk to Kawhi's agent. I'm not sure how much they will learn from him.

Most likely situation is Ballmer and the Clippers are cleared of wrongdoing. Time will tell though. Maybe there is a smoking gun out there.

I don’t find Cuban’s case particularly convincing, but it’s useful having a smart person argue the other side of it just to sort of stress test Torre’s reporting and theory.

Cuban can shoot holes in Torre’s correlation/causation argument all he wants - it still doesn’t explain why the company was paying Kawhi to do nothing.

Aspiration got nothing from that arrangement, they didn’t even make the partnership public.

You just have to go: who benefited from paying Kawhi? And I have yet to hear a compelling argument that doesn’t indict the clippers

[Evil_Headband]

I'm not sure if any of you are following Mark Cuban on Twitter regarding all this. He is making a compelling case for Ballmer and Wong being scammed including lies and falsified data that would have been provided to them. Cuban is a must read to fully follow this story.

Of course, this doesn't answer the question of why Sanberg would have agreed to this Kawhi marketing contract. We have heard nothing from the Kawhi camp. Sanberg won't talk about this but my understanding is the NBA law firm can talk to Kawhi's agent. I'm not sure how much they will learn from him.

Most likely situation is Ballmer and the Clippers are cleared of wrongdoing. Time will tell though. Maybe there is a smoking gun out there.

I don’t find Cuban’s case particularly convincing, but it’s useful having a smart person argue the other side of it just to sort of stress test Torre’s reporting and theory.

Cuban can shoot holes in Torre’s correlation/causation argument all he wants - it still doesn’t explain why the company was paying Kawhi to do nothing.

Aspiration got nothing from that arrangement, they didn’t even make the partnership public.

You just have to go: who benefited from paying Kawhi? And I have yet to hear a compelling argument that doesn’t indict the clippers

I'm not convinced it was intended to be a no show contract. The CEO who signed the deal, Andrei Cherny, said it wasn't. It's possible that they expected Kawhi to do things but, for whatever reason, it didn't turn out that way.

Read on Twitter

[kodo]

I think what's going to disappoint people when this is all over is a slight difference of what's happening.

1. Is it "cap circumvention" or...
2. Is it a billionaire who said he'll agree to invest in Aspiration, and in turn Aspiration could give some friends of his (Kawhi, Wong's daughter) some sweetheart jobs for not doing much.

#2 is perfectly legal.

#1 is going to require that there was a promise of extra funds to Kawhi before he re-signed in LA, and without those funds he would have signed elsewhere. Good look on proving that. It will require a Joe Smith level of documenting that, which would be moronic on LAC's part. But this entire thing has been such so sloppy it wouldn't be that crazy for someone to produce that Joe Smith document.

[gf2020hotmail]

I don’t find Cuban’s case particularly convincing, but it’s useful having a smart person argue the other side of it just to sort of stress test Torre’s reporting and theory.

Cuban can shoot holes in Torre’s correlation/causation argument all he wants - it still doesn’t explain why the company was paying Kawhi to do nothing.

Aspiration got nothing from that arrangement, they didn’t even make the partnership public.

You just have to go: who benefited from paying Kawhi? And I have yet to hear a compelling argument that doesn’t indict the clippers

I'm not convinced it was intended to be a no show contract. The CEO who signed the deal, Andrei Cherny, said it wasn't. It's possible that they expected Kawhi to do things but, for whatever reason, it didn't turn out that way.

Read on Twitter

This dude is a huge liar and three of his execs contested this exact statement. If they expected Kawhi to do things, why not announce the deal?

[dougthonus]

I think what's going to disappoint people when this is all over is a slight difference of what's happening.

1. Is it "cap circumvention" or...
2. Is it a billionaire who said he'll agree to invest in Aspiration, and in turn Aspiration could give some friends of his (Kawhi, Wong's daughter) some sweetheart jobs for not doing much.

#2 is perfectly legal.

#1 is going to require that there was a promise of extra funds to Kawhi before he re-signed in LA, and without those funds he would have signed elsewhere. Good look on proving that. It will require a Joe Smith level of documenting that, which would be moronic on LAC's part. But this entire thing has been such so sloppy it wouldn't be that crazy for someone to produce that Joe Smith document.

Certainly agree that #2 is definitely "legal" in the sense of whether something is criminal or not criminal. #2 is not legal under the rules of the CBA though as a way to offer benefits to a player, and I don't think anyone is looking at filing criminal charges against Kawhi/Balmer related to this deal. The CBA most definitely expressly forbids pass through money through 3rd parties what is what is alleged here.

#1 definitely does not require the level of proof you are claiming, here is a direct quote from the CBA:

A violation of Section 2(a) or 2(b) above may be proven by direct or circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, evidence that a Player Contract or any term or provision thereof cannot rationally be explained in the absence of conduct violative of Section 2(a) or 2(b).

So if we're to use circumstantial evidence then:
- In actuality, Leonard did nothing with Aspiration so that contract does not make sense
- Balmer funded Aspiration directly prior to payments to Leonard on multiple occasions
- The amount offered to Leonard makes no sense for Aspiration itself, it was 10% of its investor capital raise while teetering on bankruptcy
- Leonard's representatives have a history of asking for impermissible benefits with 3 documented teams

The league is definitely walking a tightrope here, but the above bullets are all things that seemed to generally be accepted as facts today. I think that clears the bar for the phrase in the CBA above pretty easily.

One thing I try to keep in mind here is that Adam Silver works for the teams collectively. His goal is to grow as much money as possible for the owners, but the owners themselves are 30 independent and competitive franchises. If the owners collectively want this to go away, it probably goes away. If the owners collectively want a pound of flesh from Balmer, then they'll likely get that pound of flesh.