How do we think about Patrick Williams and his contract in light of Giddey's?

[sco]

I'm sure there are at least 50 players (not in the NBA) that are better than Patrick Williams. No I can't name them but they're out there.

True about last year's PWill...the real question is can we somehow find the rookie version again to at least get a rotation level talent out of that contract. I feel there's a decent chance that the combination of him being injured last offseason coupled with the org's failed experiment trying to use him as a playmaker made for a bad season last season. If (big IF) they can put the genie back in the bottle and have him just focus on defense and making open 3's, he's a useful player.

Here's some hope:

KC with his update today…
- he think Okoro or Oat will be the starter. Think Huerter will be the shooter off the bench
- says Pat is healthy for the first time in a long time and is very confident

Dalen on CHGO today said he’s out on 12pbs of muscle. First summer he’s take the weight room seriously… these guys are so dumb. Have all the help needed and just don’t get it. DT did say Buz looks good and Noa flashed in MIA for week fo scrimmages. Says he has no fear.

[nitetrain8603]

Those who have their minds made up about Williams wouldn't care if he made $180,000.

Swapping Lonzo for Okoro still bugs me, I look at Okoro's numbers and aside from being healthier than Patrick I don't think he looks any better. He's also had no pressure on him laying on a contending team, just play a role, that doesn't mean getting more minutes and freedom has to translate to more production. It should probably be toss up to see who starts I just think Williams has the edge. Just as some other players took off with the departures of DeRozan and Lavine I think Williams would benefit from Vucevic being gone and the Bulls running more. .

This 100%.

Pat is an end of rotation guy at best. That’s how he approaches the job.

The Ball for Okoro deal was awful. Lonzo was on a great contract and Okoro is Patrick Williams 2.0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DASMACKDOWN]

Patrick could theoretically have a bounce back season but I have my doubts.

Firstly Patrick is the complete opposite than everyone else on the roster. As in he has the lowest motor on the team and struggles playing with pace.

He has played at Demar speed for most of his career.

He still has his usefulness. Guarding bigger 4s that Matas may struggle with. Helping with defense on the interior and drop coverage.

I dont think Pat averages 20 mins this year. Probably like a 8/3 average on the season.

[kodo]

Obviously the ship has sailed on Pat being worth a #4 pick, but he will almost certainly still play some minutes so it's good to hear he's healthy again. He wasn't even performing a basic bench role. Among the 500 NBA players who played at least 60 games, Patrick was bottom 15 in TS% (51%). Literally one of the worst scorers in the league. He was as high as 63% TS as a sophomore so he can at least get back to doing his 3&D thing well.

He'll probably pan out into a Robert Covington type career, but last year he wasn't even close to that. So hopefully he's better.

[MrSparkle]

There’s some recent scrimmage footage of Pat. His shot looks really good. He still makes some of the dumbest most telegraphed passes (turnovers), with ok handles in slow isolation, but sloppy once he’s making a quick move. Looks like he’s still stuck on gear-1 at all times. He’s like a Tim Thomas with less awareness and personality.

Really think what you do is get this guy his 7+ 3PAs per game in his favorite spots, pump and dump. I do agree that Vuc makes matters worse, as both guys combine to be low-motor, slow-footed, rebound-averse bums in the front-court.

[Chi town]

There’s some recent scrimmage footage of Pat. His shot looks really good. He still makes some of the dumbest most telegraphed passes (turnovers), with ok handles in slow isolation, but sloppy once he’s making a quick move. Looks like he’s still stuck on gear-1 at all times. He’s like a Tim Thomas with less awareness and personality.

Really think what you do is get this guy his 7+ 3PAs per game in his favorite spots, pump and dump. I do agree that Vuc makes matters worse, as both guys combine to be low-motor, slow-footed, rebound-averse bums in the front-court.

Link?

[drosestruts]

There’s some recent scrimmage footage of Pat. His shot looks really good. He still makes some of the dumbest most telegraphed passes (turnovers), with ok handles in slow isolation, but sloppy once he’s making a quick move. Looks like he’s still stuck on gear-1 at all times. He’s like a Tim Thomas with less awareness and personality.

Really think what you do is get this guy his 7+ 3PAs per game in his favorite spots, pump and dump. I do agree that Vuc makes matters worse, as both guys combine to be low-motor, slow-footed, rebound-averse bums in the front-court.

Link?

Watch on YouTube

[sco]

There’s some recent scrimmage footage of Pat. His shot looks really good. He still makes some of the dumbest most telegraphed passes (turnovers), with ok handles in slow isolation, but sloppy once he’s making a quick move. Looks like he’s still stuck on gear-1 at all times. He’s like a Tim Thomas with less awareness and personality.

Really think what you do is get this guy his 7+ 3PAs per game in his favorite spots, pump and dump. I do agree that Vuc makes matters worse, as both guys combine to be low-motor, slow-footed, rebound-averse bums in the front-court.

Link?

Watch on YouTube

Wow it must be hard to find a game of "walk around basketball". Calling it NBA Runs is ironic. Perfect for Pat. I totally expected him to dribble the ball off his foot or whiff on that wide open dunk.

[Chi town]

This garbage makes Pat even worse.

Dude just doesn’t have it.

I understand the context too. That’s the type of play that makes everyone worse. Yessafou shouldn’t be playing in that trash either. Hes a gamer.

[GoBlue72391]

There’s some recent scrimmage footage of Pat. His shot looks really good. He still makes some of the dumbest most telegraphed passes (turnovers), with ok handles in slow isolation, but sloppy once he’s making a quick move. Looks like he’s still stuck on gear-1 at all times. He’s like a Tim Thomas with less awareness and personality.

Really think what you do is get this guy his 7+ 3PAs per game in his favorite spots, pump and dump. I do agree that Vuc makes matters worse, as both guys combine to be low-motor, slow-footed, rebound-averse bums in the front-court.

I know we're not getting fooled by open gym runs again. His shot looks exactly the same. That middy at 3:20 and the three at 11:40 still has that crazy slow hitch. It's also pretty telling that he has what, 4 or 5 clips total in this whole 15-minute video?

You can take away exactly 0 from offseason casual open run games with minimal hustle and defense.

[kodo]

At this point last year he wasn't even able to play 5 on 5, so he's definitely healthier.

[Bulliever2020]

footage of Patrick Williams summer open gym runs to give some false hope/hype - CHECK

We have officially completed the last task of the checklist for the Bulls offseason. Bring on training camp!

[rosenthall]

There’s some recent scrimmage footage of Pat. His shot looks really good. He still makes some of the dumbest most telegraphed passes (turnovers), with ok handles in slow isolation, but sloppy once he’s making a quick move. Looks like he’s still stuck on gear-1 at all times. He’s like a Tim Thomas with less awareness and personality.

Really think what you do is get this guy his 7+ 3PAs per game in his favorite spots, pump and dump. I do agree that Vuc makes matters worse, as both guys combine to be low-motor, slow-footed, rebound-averse bums in the front-court.

Link?

Watch on YouTube

With the usual caveat that these games are nowhere close to real competition, playing at half-speed vs full-speed, etc, two things jump out at me:

1. Pat looks slimmer, which is nice to see. I think fans habitually underrate the value of offseasons in player success, especially in their early years, so it looks like this one is going much better than last year's.

2. Even with the poor competition......Pat looks mid. Most of the guys on the court are not NBA quality, and the ones that are mid-rotation at best. My belief is that really talented players have something ephemeral about their game that you can recognize as being exceptional in any circumstance, and I would hope Pat would show it in a setting like this, but he doesn't.

As an example, here's a clip of Blake Griffin playing in a similar setting, and I think when you watch the clip, it's just kind of obvious that he's a tier above others in his combination of size, speed and explosiveness:

Watch on YouTube

I know Pat's not Blake and never will be. But he should still look like a giant amongst midgets in this type of setting, and he's not.

[drosestruts]

Link?

Watch on YouTube

With the usual caveat that these games are nowhere close to real competition, playing at half-speed vs full-speed, etc, two things jump out at me:

1. Pat looks slimmer, which is nice to see. I think fans habitually underrate the value of offseasons in player success, especially in their early years, so it looks like this one is going much better than last year's.

2. Even with the poor competition......Pat looks mid. Most of the guys on the court are not NBA quality, and the ones that are are not starter quality. My belief is that really talented players have something ephemeral about their game that you can recognize as being exceptional, and I would hope Pat would show it in a setting like this, but he doesn't.

As an example, here's a clip of Blake Griffin playing in a similar setting, and I think when you watch the clip, it's just kind of obvious that he's a tier above others in his combination of size, speed and explosiveness:

Watch on YouTube

I know Pat's not Blake and never will be. But he should still look like a giant amongst midgets in this type of setting, and he's not.

Counter-point, in your linked video Pascal Siakam looks completley pedestrian and he was probably the best player (at worst second best player) on an Indiana team that went to the Finals and pushed the Thunder to a game 7.

[Chi town]

Slim Pat playing with a high motor would be a damn good player. Defensively alone he’d be worth his contract.

Problem is Pat has no motor and his on ball IQ is horrific.

Our only hope is all the competition brought in for mins light a fire and he discovers he can play with a motor for all his mins but he has to choose to until it’s second nature… and he looks healthier and leaner. Rookie Pat flashed.

[sco]

Slim Pat playing with a high motor would be a damn good player. Defensively alone he’d be worth his contract.

Problem is Pat has no motor and his on ball IQ is horrific.

Our only hope is all the competition brought in for mins light a fire and he discovers he can play with a motor for all his mins but he has to choose to until it’s second nature… and he looks healthier and leaner. Rookie Pat flashed.

At this point, I'm just focused on the Bulls starting Okoro over Pat. IMO, he's a way better fit with this group as a POA defender (which Pat isn't). He also has a better motor and IQ.

[MGB8]

I wish that video had made me more optimistic... But like some, it actually makes me less so. He doesn't look notably slimmer to me, nor quicker. Very JAG.

The shot looks fine, though, and he doesn't look impaired, can get up, too. And his real impact would be on D, where that wasn't really played.

Still... We will have to see in actual NBA games if anything is different. I have my doubts - feel like there is a better chance a Dalen Terry or Phillips levels up at this point.

Maybe Pat will play well as a small ball 5, since Billy lives going tiny.

[Rose2Boozer]

There’s some recent scrimmage footage of Pat. His shot looks really good. He still makes some of the dumbest most telegraphed passes (turnovers), with ok handles in slow isolation, but sloppy once he’s making a quick move. Looks like he’s still stuck on gear-1 at all times. He’s like a Tim Thomas with less awareness and personality.

Really think what you do is get this guy his 7+ 3PAs per game in his favorite spots, pump and dump. I do agree that Vuc makes matters worse, as both guys combine to be low-motor, slow-footed, rebound-averse bums in the front-court.

Link?

Watch on YouTube

Tounde Yessoufou was carrying Patrick Williams

[Chi town]

Slim Pat playing with a high motor would be a damn good player. Defensively alone he’d be worth his contract.

Problem is Pat has no motor and his on ball IQ is horrific.

Our only hope is all the competition brought in for mins light a fire and he discovers he can play with a motor for all his mins but he has to choose to until it’s second nature… and he looks healthier and leaner. Rookie Pat flashed.

At this point, I'm just focused on the Bulls starting Okoro over Pat. IMO, he's a way better fit with this group as a POA defender (which Pat isn't). He also has a better motor and IQ.

I hope Okoro wins the starting spot too. Think it will be Huerter because Billy gonna Billy.

My hope is Okoro becomes our Caruso. That’s how he should play.

[Chi town]

Link?

Watch on YouTube

Tounde Yessoufou was carrying Patrick Williams

Yess is my guy. He’s going to be a stud.

Love DP Ament and Yess in this draft.

I’m fine trading Coby if we can replace him with Yess.