Pablo Torre: Kawhi/Clippers/Ballmer/Aspiration Thread (part 2)

[G R E Y]

Also far be it for me to stand up for Raptor fans but the mere fact that Kawhi and Dennis asked for those things from not only the Raptors but also the Lakers shows that Kawhi to the Clippers was never a done deal.

Clippertown saying he was always going to leave Toronto is bullshine. There is every indication kawhi was going to the highest bidder and that highest bidder should have been Toronto not to mention if he loved LA and wanted to win he would have went to the Lakers.

He wanted to play with George and George admitted on his podcast they were close to going to Toronto.

Clippers just happened to be the team willing to give up their young star and a crap load of 1sts. Masai was not willing to part with Fred and Siakam.

Ballmer had his sights set on KL for years. In the podcast Arthur mentioned the athletic trainer who sued Clips, how back in I think 2016 or 2017 Clips reps were calling him surreptitiously to find out info on KL health status post ankle twist. This was when he was on the Spurs.

When Raps were approached with terms legal and illegal, they were approached with *the offer to beat*. In other words, it was already presented and accepted elsewhere ie/Clips and had to be at least that if not better to sway going elsewhere not Clips. Like KL friends were bragging on social media, making fun of TO fans during a live streaming of the parade on his sister's IG (well she was managing KL's account). They were mocking fans who were shouting for him to stay, a hand put up was not five more years but a wave goodbye. They already knew.

Then when LAL reps were meeting with KL and reps, friends again took to social media (twitter) mocking LAL saying that KL was already meeting with PG in the same hotel, and it wasn't about joining LAL. They already knew.

Anyway, Arthur said nobody from TO brass in the room was going for the pay for no work and stock in company schemes. Again, KL was present in those meetings so the whole he's just a player whose uncle is doing all the dirty work no longer holds. It was all just leveraging Clips to make sure they'd follow through. And they did. And here we are. Mind you, these are just the things we know about because a bad company went belly up. I reckon there's some stuff out there going back to 2019 that had sweeteners we've yet to discover.

[Sixers in 4]

Also far be it for me to stand up for Raptor fans but the mere fact that Kawhi and Dennis asked for those things from not only the Raptors but also the Lakers shows that Kawhi to the Clippers was never a done deal.

Clippertown saying he was always going to leave Toronto is bullshine. There is every indication kawhi was going to the highest bidder and that highest bidder should have been Toronto not to mention if he loved LA and wanted to win he would have went to the Lakers.

He wanted to play with George and George admitted on his podcast they were close to going to Toronto.

Clippers just happened to be the team willing to give up their young star and a crap load of 1sts. Masai was not willing to part with Fred and Siakam.

Ballmer had his sights set on KL for years. In the podcast Arthur mentioned the athletic trainer who sued Clips, how back in I think 2016 or 2017 Clips reps were calling him surreptitiously to find out info on KL health status post ankle twist. This was when he was on the Spurs.

When Raps were approached with terms legal and illegal, they were approached with *the offer to beat*. In other words, it was already presented and accepted elsewhere ie/Clips and had to be at least that if not better to sway going elsewhere not Clips. Like KL friends were bragging on social media, making fun of TO fans during a live streaming of the parade on his sister's IG (well she was managing KL's account). They were mocking fans who were shouting for him to stay, a hand put up was not five more years but a wave goodbye. They already knew.

Then when LAL reps were meeting with KL and reps, friends again took to social media (twitter) mocking LAL saying that KL was already meeting with PG in the same hotel, and it wasn't about joining LAL. They already knew.

Anyway, Arthur said nobody from TO brass in the room was going for the pay for no work and stock in company schemes. Again, KL was present in those meetings so the whole he's just a player whose uncle is doing all the dirty work no longer holds. It was all just leveraging Clips to make sure they'd follow through. And they did. And here we are. Mind you, these are just the things we know about because a bad company went belly up. I reckon there's some stuff out there going back to 2019 that had sweeteners we've yet to discover.

The question isn't whether Ballmer had already greased the wheels the question is if the CBA functioned as intended and Toronto was able to offer Kawhi another year plus the most money would he have stayed.

I think it's actually pretty much up in the air.

[Bornstellar]

Watch on YouTube

Some more insight to 2019 free agency.

Outstanding clarity and fairness.

Clips/Ballmer/KL/DRA are dead to rights. Each one.

Arthur: KL was in meetings when DR pitched illegal demands. Wow. Directly implicated. (I think it's so egotistical to insist on no work for money, and arrogant to repeat exact demands to multiple teams.) Agent Frankel nowhere to be found. To Raps it was presented *as an offer to beat*, so Clips already knew what they had to deliver at least two years before this deal they got caught making and all its machinations we know of so far were accidentally revealed.

Asked for part in Leafs ownership elbows up, eh buddy? Big hockey fans, eh?

KL asked Tor team reps whether they thought he could get another max contract after that upcoming one with worries about his knee condition a primary factor. Huh.

*Spurs. Were. Right.* In the diagnosis, in the not bending over to behind the scenes demands. What's the first words that come to mind about 'rhymes with #2?' I foresee 'vindicated' chants at our arena.

Tom makes a good point - what if Clips trade all their best picks assets to get a quality player back in anticipation of getting around a picks fine?

Bruce makes a good point - can punish also with moving AS game to crypto.com.

It's so damning and inexcusable even with playing devil's advocate that basically it boils down to Silver channeling his inner David Stern BDE and laying down the law's hammer. (Silver distancing himself, not knowing anything about Aspiration then clarifying is not the best look. What did he know? When did he know it? Has to step up and be definitive and lead well here.)

I agree that this is a defining moment in Silver's commish career.

p.s. what is that guy Mayes even doing there? Guy mostly nods along. What a gig lol

I've been resisting the urge to make a "You All Owe the Spurs an Apology" thread after all this has come out the amount of mud slung at the Spurs from that time was insane and we all know now it was nothing but BS.

[Calvin Klein]

Also far be it for me to stand up for Raptor fans but the mere fact that Kawhi and Dennis asked for those things from not only the Raptors but also the Lakers shows that Kawhi to the Clippers was never a done deal.

Clippertown saying he was always going to leave Toronto is bullshine. There is every indication kawhi was going to the highest bidder and that highest bidder should have been Toronto not to mention if he loved LA and wanted to win he would have went to the Lakers.

He wanted to play with George and George admitted on his podcast they were close to going to Toronto.

Clippers just happened to be the team willing to give up their young star and a crap load of 1sts. Masai was not willing to part with Fred and Siakam.

Ballmer had his sights set on KL for years. In the podcast Arthur mentioned the athletic trainer who sued Clips, how back in I think 2016 or 2017 Clips reps were calling him surreptitiously to find out info on KL health status post ankle twist. This was when he was on the Spurs.

When Raps were approached with terms legal and illegal, they were approached with *the offer to beat*. In other words, it was already presented and accepted elsewhere ie/Clips and had to be at least that if not better to sway going elsewhere not Clips. Like KL friends were bragging on social media, making fun of TO fans during a live streaming of the parade on his sister's IG (well she was managing KL's account). They were mocking fans who were shouting for him to stay, a hand put up was not five more years but a wave goodbye. They already knew.

Then when LAL reps were meeting with KL and reps, friends again took to social media (twitter) mocking LAL saying that KL was already meeting with PG in the same hotel, and it wasn't about joining LAL. They already knew.

Anyway, Arthur said nobody from TO brass in the room was going for the pay for no work and stock in company schemes. Again, KL was present in those meetings so the whole he's just a player whose uncle is doing all the dirty work no longer holds. It was all just leveraging Clips to make sure they'd follow through. And they did. And here we are. Mind you, these are just the things we know about because a bad company went belly up. I reckon there's some stuff out there going back to 2019 that had sweeteners we've yet to discover.

Everything starts to make much more sense now.

[G R E Y]

He wanted to play with George and George admitted on his podcast they were close to going to Toronto.

Clippers just happened to be the team willing to give up their young star and a crap load of 1sts. Masai was not willing to part with Fred and Siakam.

Ballmer had his sights set on KL for years. In the podcast Arthur mentioned the athletic trainer who sued Clips, how back in I think 2016 or 2017 Clips reps were calling him surreptitiously to find out info on KL health status post ankle twist. This was when he was on the Spurs.

When Raps were approached with terms legal and illegal, they were approached with *the offer to beat*. In other words, it was already presented and accepted elsewhere ie/Clips and had to be at least that if not better to sway going elsewhere not Clips. Like KL friends were bragging on social media, making fun of TO fans during a live streaming of the parade on his sister's IG (well she was managing KL's account). They were mocking fans who were shouting for him to stay, a hand put up was not five more years but a wave goodbye. They already knew.

Then when LAL reps were meeting with KL and reps, friends again took to social media (twitter) mocking LAL saying that KL was already meeting with PG in the same hotel, and it wasn't about joining LAL. They already knew.

Anyway, Arthur said nobody from TO brass in the room was going for the pay for no work and stock in company schemes. Again, KL was present in those meetings so the whole he's just a player whose uncle is doing all the dirty work no longer holds. It was all just leveraging Clips to make sure they'd follow through. And they did. And here we are. Mind you, these are just the things we know about because a bad company went belly up. I reckon there's some stuff out there going back to 2019 that had sweeteners we've yet to discover.

The question isn't whether Ballmer had already greased the wheels the question is if the CBA functioned as intended and Toronto was able to offer Kawhi another year plus the most money would he have stayed.

I think it's actually pretty much up in the air.

I don't. There was mutual interest for years. Spurs brass increasingly saw it (especially after KL fired agent who sued him for money owed in favour of current MIA one).

Whatever was 'lost' in the extra year TO could have offered was made up for and then some under the table. Remember that KL's first Clips contract was only three years.

Keep in mind, too, that this wasn't just about money *on the table* and winning situation, else KL would have just stayed in TO, or Spurs before that - we had just won 61 games the previous season!

All teams that clearly signalled they would not do illegal deals were passed on. So it was about leverage and wielding power. Ballmer got his guy, but the cost is not only hundreds of millions legally, but hundreds of millions more illegally, AND getting bent over because agreeing to these illegal terms can now be used as an anvil over his head - do what we want, give us what we want, or we expose you. Perpetual spiral.

It's not even about Ballmer learning his lesson because he has a long history of breaking rules. He just has the most to lose and is probably looking forward to splitting with a group that has bent him over so much. The roi has been disastrous, all the more compared to that of Spurs or TO. LAL won in that time, too.

There's some poetic justice that three teams that wouldn't bend to DR/KL illegal demands all won a championship, and the team/owner and player/group who were angling for one another have what they do to show for it, getting exposed. They deserve each other.

[GusT15]

I've been resisting the urge to make a "You All Owe the Spurs an Apology" thread after all this has come out the amount of mud slung at the Spurs from that time was insane and we all know now it was nothing but BS.

The day news broke Leonard was signing with Clips i went on a +1 spree to about 100 Raps fans who were preaching BS all season long.
But they were devastated.
They had to convince themselves for months that the Spurs were at fault,that Kawhi left SA for basketball reasons etc.
They won a chip and then the curtain was pulled and they realized what was going on.

So,no need for that kind of thread anymore,everyone knows nowadays.

[G R E Y]

Watch on YouTube

Some more insight to 2019 free agency.

Outstanding clarity and fairness.

Clips/Ballmer/KL/DRA are dead to rights. Each one.

Arthur: KL was in meetings when DR pitched illegal demands. Wow. Directly implicated. (I think it's so egotistical to insist on no work for money, and arrogant to repeat exact demands to multiple teams.) Agent Frankel nowhere to be found. To Raps it was presented *as an offer to beat*, so Clips already knew what they had to deliver at least two years before this deal they got caught making and all its machinations we know of so far were accidentally revealed.

Asked for part in Leafs ownership elbows up, eh buddy? Big hockey fans, eh?

KL asked Tor team reps whether they thought he could get another max contract after that upcoming one with worries about his knee condition a primary factor. Huh.

*Spurs. Were. Right.* In the diagnosis, in the not bending over to behind the scenes demands. What's the first words that come to mind about 'rhymes with #2?' I foresee 'vindicated' chants at our arena.

Tom makes a good point - what if Clips trade all their best picks assets to get a quality player back in anticipation of getting around a picks fine?

Bruce makes a good point - can punish also with moving AS game to crypto.com.

It's so damning and inexcusable even with playing devil's advocate that basically it boils down to Silver channeling his inner David Stern BDE and laying down the law's hammer. (Silver distancing himself, not knowing anything about Aspiration then clarifying is not the best look. What did he know? When did he know it? Has to step up and be definitive and lead well here.)

I agree that this is a defining moment in Silver's commish career.

p.s. what is that guy Mayes even doing there? Guy mostly nods along. What a gig lol

I've been resisting the urge to make a "You All Owe the Spurs an Apology" thread after all this has come out the amount of mud slung at the Spurs from that time was insane and we all know now it was nothing but BS.

Notice how we're glossed over if mentioned at all? It's like this whole thing started in 2019. Imagine how much more PATFO know, what they stayed silent about, just how much KL and seedy DR et al were covered by how Spurs conduct business. Spurs stuck to the long game.

I imagine PATFO sitting around a large table, silently sipping something spirited after clinking their glasses, nodding along as they watch this all unfold, smiling.

[inonba]

Also far be it for me to stand up for Raptor fans but the mere fact that Kawhi and Dennis asked for those things from not only the Raptors but also the Lakers shows that Kawhi to the Clippers was never a done deal.

Clippertown saying he was always going to leave Toronto is bullshine. There is every indication kawhi was going to the highest bidder and that highest bidder should have been Toronto not to mention if he loved LA and wanted to win he would have went to the Lakers.

He wanted to play with George and George admitted on his podcast they were close to going to Toronto.

Clippers just happened to be the team willing to give up their young star and a crap load of 1sts. Masai was not willing to part with Fred and Siakam.

If I remember the reporting at the time correctly, what broke Masai was OKC insistence that Westbrook be included in the trade which would have gutted the Raptors entire roster. At that point, Raptors management had doubts if the negotiations were serious or if they were being used as leverage.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/report-thunder-offered-raptors-westbrook-george-trade-siakam/

[xAIRNESSx]

Interesting story but I don’t think Kawhi had any intention of joining the Lakers.

When he was in San Antonio, the betting odds were that he would end up with the Lakers but after LeBron signed there, it changed to the Clippers.

Kind of suggests to me that he was just messing with the Lakers and Raptors to get more leverage and force the Clippers to trade for PG.

Read on Twitter

[TheGeneral99]

Also far be it for me to stand up for Raptor fans but the mere fact that Kawhi and Dennis asked for those things from not only the Raptors but also the Lakers shows that Kawhi to the Clippers was never a done deal.

Clippertown saying he was always going to leave Toronto is bullshine. There is every indication kawhi was going to the highest bidder and that highest bidder should have been Toronto not to mention if he loved LA and wanted to win he would have went to the Lakers.

He wanted to play with George and George admitted on his podcast they were close to going to Toronto.

Clippers just happened to be the team willing to give up their young star and a crap load of 1sts. Masai was not willing to part with Fred and Siakam.

If I remember the reporting at the time correctly, what broke Masai was OKC insistence that Westbrook be included in the trade which would have gutted the Raptors entire roster. At that point, Raptors management had doubts if the negotiations were serious or if they were being used as leverage.

George confirmed he was very close going to Toronto, but Clippers package was better.

Watch on YouTube

[xAIRNESSx]

Based on all the reports out of Toronto, the Raptors front office never believed Kawhi was serious about returning to Toronto.

I call BS on what PG said.

[G R E Y]

Interesting story but I don’t think Kawhi had any intention of joining the Lakers.

When he was in San Antonio, the betting odds were that he would end up with the Lakers but after LeBron signed there, it changed to the Clippers.

Kind of suggests to me that he was just messing with the Lakers and Raptors to get more leverage and force the Clippers to trade for PG.

Read on Twitter

I mean, which owner had the largest money to spend, was for years targeting player then available in UFA, and had a history of breaking laws/rules? This isn't that complicated. PG should recognize himself as the pawn he has been.

[tamaraw08]

I just hope and pray that clippertown is okay.

[levon]

Interesting story but I don’t think Kawhi had any intention of joining the Lakers.

When he was in San Antonio, the betting odds were that he would end up with the Lakers but after LeBron signed there, it changed to the Clippers.

Kind of suggests to me that he was just messing with the Lakers and Raptors to get more leverage and force the Clippers to trade for PG.

Read on Twitter

Weird conclusion to draw from this article. If I wanted to use the Lakers as leverage, I wouldn't demand a private plane.

Your point about LeBron changing Kawhi's target is well made. At the time it made obvious sense that Kawhi didn't want to redo the Durant mistake from a competitive basketball perspective, but now in hindsight it seems more about LeBron being the organizational cornerstone and Kawhi being made lower priority, meaning less of a chance for Kawhi to exploit ownership for perks. His camp leveraged the Clippers' inferiority complex and Ballmer's singular focus of surpassing the Lakers against them.

History says with the Lakers are lucky with free agents and drafted players, but imo they've been lucky in the bullets they've dodged.

[Black star]

Read on Twitter

Yeahh.. I'm pretty sure the Clips are walking away with nothing worse than a slap on the wrist.

[Calvin Klein]

Read on Twitter

Yeahh.. I'm pretty sure the Clips are walking away with nothing worse than a slap on the wrist.

Ishbia is a charlatan and a big time conman. This type of shady stuff is nothing to him I'm sure.

[xAIRNESSx]

Interesting story but I don’t think Kawhi had any intention of joining the Lakers.

When he was in San Antonio, the betting odds were that he would end up with the Lakers but after LeBron signed there, it changed to the Clippers.

Kind of suggests to me that he was just messing with the Lakers and Raptors to get more leverage and force the Clippers to trade for PG.

Read on Twitter

Weird conclusion to draw from this article. If I wanted to use the Lakers as leverage, I wouldn't demand a private plane.

Your point about LeBron changing Kawhi's target is well made. At the time it made obvious sense that Kawhi didn't want to redo the Durant mistake from a competitive basketball perspective, but now in hindsight it seems more about LeBron being the organizational cornerstone and Kawhi being made lower priority, meaning less of a chance for Kawhi to exploit ownership for perks. His camp leveraged the Clippers' inferiority complex and Ballmer's singular focus of surpassing the Lakers against them.

History says with the Lakers are lucky with free agents and drafted players, but imo they've been lucky in the bullets they've dodged.

Maybe not exactly “messing” with the Raptors and Lakers but trying to gauge how much teams were willing to offer him and use that to push the Clippers.

In the Raptors story, it was to get PG and with the Lakers it was to get additional perks and endorsements.

I always believed he was going to the Clippers the entire year he was in Toronto. Even after we won the championship.

[The Master]

Yeah... I'm pretty sure the Clips are walking away with nothing worse than a slap on the wrist.

Yeah, that was an option from the beginning, there are just too many pros to not punish Ballmer and the Clippers:

1) Ballmer's investment being great for the league,
2) Ballmer's personal connections with the owners,
3) more 'invested' owners being fine with the NBA's openness for the shady stuff.

Cuban or Ishbia are kind of usual suspects when you think about these owners or former owners who could defend Ballmer, really. Not saying every owner will be fine with that, but it seems that there will be big enough group of those who do not care.

Pablo, we need more.

[G R E Y]

Read on Twitter

Yeahh.. I'm pretty sure the Clips are walking away with nothing worse than a slap on the wrist.

Ishbia's argument is he likes Ballmer and will take his word on it?! Wellll, I'm convinced! Nevermind all the other times Ballmer's already been caught. Is Ishbia really that thick? Arrogant?

It's just that the league has far more owners who are not in markets or who who don't have nearly as deep pockets and they're pissed. They make up a bigger portion of the owners. You don't hear a lot of owners coming to Ballmer's defense even if he's liked.

The Arthur podcast above, though, does bring up a good point - Ballmer is liked by other owners. If the same situation were happening to Dolan this would all get wrapped up quickly and decisively against him. Its about spine and appetite to do the right thing or stop pretending cap circumvention matters or only matters some of the time. Maybe league is trying to work out a strong enough punishment without completely alienating the richest owner in sports. Or trying to work out a way to save face. If NBA does not take a strong stance in the biggest cap circumvention scandal it has ever faced there's no turning back from the Pandora's Box it will open and will be the laughing stock of pro sports leagues. Might as well let one of the super rich oil countries take over.

[Curmudgeon]

The other owners want to whitewash it? LOL, it's their money.