Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole

[HadAnEffectHere]

I'm sure the Jazz and Kessler have already illegally agreed to a contract that just hasn't been signed yet to preserve cap flexibility. Kessler's annoying dad would be melting down otherwise as the Jazz have focused a lot on sabotaging Kessler's career.

Ah, how I've missed this conspiracy theory nonsense.

If the Jazz do not have a contract extension illegally signed with Kessler, this is obviously going to immediately become Kuminga 2.0, where the player and org hate each other and have an extremely ugly public dispute over years of bad blood combined with the bad incentives that come with RFA. I highly doubt the team wants that.

The Jazz benched Kessler in 2023-2024, spent all of Summer 2024 yapping to the media that Kessler was too soft and maybe they should replace him with Zach Edey, then refused to trade him to the Lakers so he could play in the playoffs with Luka and LeBron, and then asked him to intentionally sit out games they wanted to throw for tanking purposes. This is very much a Warriors-Kuminga situation, down to the player being delusional about his ability and the GM having a delusional asking price for trades as well. The Jazz either have the extension illegally signed or this is going to get pretty bad.

[Godaddycurse]

why cant this be maxey 2.0? both sides were fine with waiting

[SkyHook]

I'm sure the Jazz and Kessler have already illegally agreed to a contract that just hasn't been signed yet to preserve cap flexibility. Kessler's annoying dad would be melting down otherwise as the Jazz have focused a lot on sabotaging Kessler's career.

Ah, how I've missed this conspiracy theory nonsense.

If the Jazz do not have a contract extension illegally signed with Kessler, this is obviously going to immediately become Kuminga 2.0, where the player and org hate each other and have an extremely ugly public dispute over years of bad blood combined with the bad incentives that come with RFA. I highly doubt the team wants that.

The Jazz benched Kessler in 2023-2024, spent all of Summer 2024 yapping to the media that Kessler was too soft and maybe they should replace him with Zach Edey, then refused to trade him to the Lakers so he could play in the playoffs with Luka and LeBron, and then asked him to intentionally sit out games they wanted to throw for tanking purposes. This is very much a Warriors-Kuminga situation, down to the player being delusional about his ability and the GM having a delusional asking price for trades as well. The Jazz either have the extension illegally signed or this is going to get pretty bad.

Or, hear me out... it's neither; all you have here is conjecture. I congratulate you on your overactive imagination, but maybe it's time to switch to decaf.

[HadAnEffectHere]

why cant this be maxey 2.0? both sides were fine with waiting

Sure, I expect this is Maxey 2.0 where both sides agreed to a contract extension and just didn't announce it to save cap space. Kessler's camp is extremely annoying at the best of times and would be having a full on meltdown at Kessler being asked to throw games last year without a contract extension.

[PurpleGreenGold]

I'm sure the Jazz and Kessler have already illegally agreed to a contract that just hasn't been signed yet to preserve cap flexibility. Kessler's annoying dad would be melting down otherwise as the Jazz have focused a lot on sabotaging Kessler's career.

Ah, how I've missed this conspiracy theory nonsense.

I was hoping they had been "Raptured" and we wouldn't have to hear any of their nonsense ever again!

[Scoot McGroot]

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[Mavrelous]

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Give us Carlisle and Westbrook experiment, remove sharp objects from the facility before.

[chrbal]

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Give us Carlisle and Westbrook experiment, remove sharp objects from the facility before.

If that happens, the NBA needs to get a version of the NFL’s hard knocks and have the Pacers be the first team to go on

[HornetJail]

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Hoped he'd find a way to separate himself from the zillions of other inefficient scoring guards who can't do anything else, but he hasn't. We have at least 4 other players that are sure to play his role better than him, so not really torn up by this.

He's a quality perimeter scorer and I think he'll get claimed off waivers, or at least find himself a guaranteed minimum. He's worth a look. There is potential there. Just never got the sense our new FO thought anything of him.

[jayjaysee]

Report comes out saying Utah and Kessler didn’t come to an agreement despite Utah making offers… clearly means they made an illegal agreement.

[HornetJail]

Report comes out saying Utah and Kessler didn’t come to an agreement despite Utah making offers… clearly means they made an illegal agreement.

that's a leap... could be a scenario where Kessler wants like $25M+ and isn't going to come down, Utah maxes out at $15M, and they're very clearly not going to meet in the middle before the season begins. It happens

[Scoot McGroot]

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Give us Carlisle and Westbrook experiment, remove sharp objects from the facility before.

If that happens, the NBA needs to get a version of the NFL’s hard knocks and have the Pacers be the first team to go on

Nah….that just wouldn’t be Wright…


Edit: it’s been reported now. It’s likely to be Delon Wright.

[brackdan70]

No, they had to dump KP to duck the 2nd Apron.

No I am saying in the Atlanta trade they could have traded KP for Mann, Niang and 22, and left Brooklyn out. They could have then searched for other ways to get under the Apron. They could have still traded Niang as the did and then still be about 8m over the Apron with Mann. They could look at trading Simons or Hauser and a 2nd to get under the apron and keep the pick.
I think the real reason they didn’t keep Mann was the long term money. They have always focused on being in a position to duck the tax next year and have flexibility.

I don't think ducking tax while having Mann + 1st rd pick salary on the books is as simple as you make it, if it was Boston would already be below the tax.

For 26-27 Mann and Pick 22 combine for 19m.
Celtics would be at 13 players and about 1.4m under the Tax before signing their 2026 draft pick. So yes they would need to move Hauser if the pick is really good or Scheierman/ Walsh etc if it’s not that good. Wouldn’t be that hard. Also they have a bunch or team options non guaranteed contracts for 26/27.
My real point here is I don’t think they want Mann. They had him and attached 22 to move him.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Report comes out saying Utah and Kessler didn’t come to an agreement despite Utah making offers… clearly means they made an illegal agreement.

Yeah, if that part is true, then obviously the team did not sign a deal under the table and I assume the relationship with Kessler is over and he'll sign the QO next year.

The Jazz have repeatedly harmed Kessler's career as much as they can while ****-talking him constantly and asking him to throw games and I thought they would compensate for... doing all of that.

Not then immediately trying to rip him off.

I don't understand how you refuse to trade Kessler to a contender, ask him to blatantly throw a dozen games, ask him to intentionally lose for a few more years, and then not make him whole.

[HadAnEffectHere]

"The Jazz have a high asking price for Kessler. One source told Lakers Daily that the Lakers would have to part ways with Austin Reaves and multiple first-round picks to acquire Kessler, who projects to be a great fit next to Doncic and LeBron James since he’s a skilled lob threat and excellent rim protector."

Hmm, Danny is just out of his mind actually.

https://lakersdaily.com/source-lakers-will-attempt-to-trade-for-walker-kessler-again-during-2025-26-season/

[HornetJail]

"The Jazz have a high asking price for Kessler. One source told Lakers Daily that the Lakers would have to part ways with Austin Reaves and multiple first-round picks to acquire Kessler, who projects to be a great fit next to Doncic and LeBron James since he’s a skilled lob threat and excellent rim protector."

Hmm, Danny is just out of his mind actually.

https://lakersdaily.com/source-lakers-will-attempt-to-trade-for-walker-kessler-again-during-2025-26-season/

if true, they should have no issues paying Kessler in order to keep him

[HadAnEffectHere]

"The Jazz have a high asking price for Kessler. One source told Lakers Daily that the Lakers would have to part ways with Austin Reaves and multiple first-round picks to acquire Kessler, who projects to be a great fit next to Doncic and LeBron James since he’s a skilled lob threat and excellent rim protector."

Hmm, Danny is just out of his mind actually.

https://lakersdaily.com/source-lakers-will-attempt-to-trade-for-walker-kessler-again-during-2025-26-season/

if true, they should have no issues paying Kessler in order to keep him

Yes, this is the basic problem with all of the Ainge era transactions. He wants other teams to value these players much much more than he does and will refuse to trade players unless they do.

If all of this is true, Walker has to be losing his mind that the Jazz are basically asking for a max player level return while not offering close to that.

[brackdan70]

"The Jazz have a high asking price for Kessler. One source told Lakers Daily that the Lakers would have to part ways with Austin Reaves and multiple first-round picks to acquire Kessler, who projects to be a great fit next to Doncic and LeBron James since he’s a skilled lob threat and excellent rim protector."

Hmm, Danny is just out of his mind actually.

https://lakersdaily.com/source-lakers-will-attempt-to-trade-for-walker-kessler-again-during-2025-26-season/

if true, they should have no issues paying Kessler in order to keep him

Yes, this is the basic problem with all of the Ainge era transactions. He wants other teams to value these players much much more than he does and will refuse to trade players unless they do.

If all of this is true, Walker has to be losing his mind that the Jazz are basically asking for a max player level return while not offering close to that.

Fair point but if Kessler is on say a 3/90….what is trade value? He is a good but limited player.

[HadAnEffectHere]

if true, they should have no issues paying Kessler in order to keep him

Yes, this is the basic problem with all of the Ainge era transactions. He wants other teams to value these players much much more than he does and will refuse to trade players unless they do.

If all of this is true, Walker has to be losing his mind that the Jazz are basically asking for a max player level return while not offering close to that.

Fair point but if Kessler is on say a 3/90….what is trade value? He is a good but limited player.

Sure, but you can't do "Walker Kessler is worth this huge amount of value" and "we don't want to extend Walker Kessler for much money" at the same time. If you traded Walker with three years left on his rookie contract, then this could have made sense as Walker genuinely provided massive excess value on his rookie contract... But his rookie contract is almost over and so you should expect him to get paid what he's worth and then go to mostly neutral value.

You should get big value on guys that are paid less than they're worth because

1. They signed contracts that turned into bargains due to improved play
2. They're on rookie contracts and paid way less than they're worth
3. They're a max player out performing their max

But... You should expect Kessler to sign a market value contract next offseason if you trade for him so he provides no excess value past this one season which shouldn't net that much in a trade.

[SkyHook]

"The Jazz have a high asking price for Kessler. One source told Lakers Daily that the Lakers would have to part ways with Austin Reaves and multiple first-round picks to acquire Kessler, who projects to be a great fit next to Doncic and LeBron James since he’s a skilled lob threat and excellent rim protector."

Hmm, Danny is just out of his mind actually.

https://lakersdaily.com/source-lakers-will-attempt-to-trade-for-walker-kessler-again-during-2025-26-season/

It doesn't say that the Jazz are trying to peddle Kessler to the Lakers, it says that the Lakers are going to make another attempt to acquire him. There is absolutely no issue with giving a suitor an incredibly high asking price if the intent is to keep him. Utah has no obligation to move him.

This was the outcome expected by all who closely followed what was going on with the team. No need for anyone to get their panties in a bunch over this.