Kuminga to SAC, is there a middle ground?

[gswhoops]

Hield fits into the MLE, so our options would be a little broader. At a glance it looks like Utah, Brooklyn, Washington, Charlotte, and Chicago all have enough MLE and 1st apron room left to absorb his contract without sending any money back (source: https://www.salaryswish.com/mid-level-exception). IDK what any of them would charge to do it, though.

Utah used the MLE on Kyle Anderson, but you're right about the other three. So there are more options, but, like you say, what would they charge to accommodate us. I don't see the point myself, it seems like a desperation move just to get rid of Kuminga.

Yeah it seems like we'd have to use the protected 1st we get from Sac to dump Hield, and then at that point it's kind of like why bother.

[Nate the Great]

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Smitty with some truth. Monk is a good player!

Agreed. I think he gets underrated a bit cause not a ton of people watch the Kings.

I would argue that Warriors fans are more likely to watch the Kings than fans of any other team that isn’t the Kings. Proximity and familiarity factor into it…many Americans couldn’t even find Sacramento on a map. With league pass, I watch a good number of Kings games every year (I have family who are Kings fans), and what I’ve seen of Monk is that he’s a good ballhandler and passer, a good teammate, an inefficient scorer, and a terrible defender.

The real problem here is twofold: first, one clear takeaway from this off-season is that shooting guards who don’t defend are not valuable to most teams. Second, Monk’s contract extends beyond the two-year window that Warriors management have for free agents. I don’t know why they don’t want players who are signed for more than two years - rumor has it they have some irrational hope of getting Giannis, but I haven’t seen any confirmation of that.

Personally, after all this time talking about the damn trade, I’m okay doing Kuminga for Monk and a real Kings first-round pick, if the other player going out for salary cap purposes is Hield and not Moody. Hield and Monk couldn’t play together anyhow, for the same reason neither should start, which is defense.

I’m just tired of the whole discussion. I don’t really like Kuminga anyhow, and I don’t want to lose Horford or the other free agents (which is likely the reason the Warriors are more interested in a trade). So the Warriors might bend if the Kings stop making the draft pick conditional. Just give us one actual asset, please.

[DB23]

I agree. I think Monk would take some pressure off Steph and Jimmy as a scorer and playmaker. And can the Warriors really make it the whole season with only Steph and Jimmy as primary playmakers? But Warrior fans seem to think another guy with the ball in his hands is not what the team needs.

Yeah I think I'm more pro-Monk the player than most GS fans. I don't have an issue with him playing off Steph/Jimmy and then being an on ball guy when they're resting.

I think Monk the contract is an issue though. If we could get Monk for JK straight up I'd be fine with it, but Kuminga plus Hield/Moody for Monk feels like a lateral move at best. Maybe JK for Monk/protected 1st happens at the deadline.

If it’s Hield out though, is there really much of a drop off considering most of those minutes will go to Monk, a bigger role for Moody, and filled in with Podz/GP/Melton and Seth? I don’t think that’s a downgrade but I could be wrong.

Hield is a much better fit in the Kerr system.

[DonaldSanders]

I absolutely would have done JK for Monk+pick if we didn't have to give up 1 of Moody or Hield. I get why both sides are taking a look to see if a different deal can be made, but it won't involve Monk at least before the season starts. Maybe during the year this deal revives.

I still think we're in the same scenario we were at the beginning of all this -- JK and the Warriors are headed for a break up, but both sides benefit from signing a deal. I think a deal gets done and JK is traded at the deadline, same as I thought months ago.

[Sactowndog]

Is it feasible to re-route Monk to HOU, with Sheppard + Eason to GSW?

If this were possible the Kings would have done it already and we would not be talking at all.

The Warriors are either getting nothing for Kuminga if he signs the QO or they get a little something for him by getting Monk as an asset and a protected first.

I get you don’t want to hear it. But that’s really likely negative value for us.

I don’t really care. Go with the qualifying offer and get nothing. You lose both the pick and the salary slot.

[DB23]

If this were possible the Kings would have done it already and we would not be talking at all.

The Warriors are either getting nothing for Kuminga if he signs the QO or they get a little something for him by getting Monk as an asset and a protected first.

I get you don’t want to hear it. But that’s really likely negative value for us.

I don’t really care. Go with the qualifying offer and get nothing. You lose both the pick and the salary slot.

Yeah we don’t care either (dubs fans at least)

Honestly seems you want the trade more than us.

The funny part is you think it’s some threat - take our bad contract or get nothing!!!! Yeah bro we don’t want it

[redslastlaugh]

when is the Kuminga drama over? Is the deadline Oct 1?

[SkyHook]

Monk's archetype (PG sized SG with limited/no defense) isn't in demand around the league at this point. Teams that would be interested in him on-court only would want him cheap - and his contract means that isn't really possible.

Also any 3rd team that's looking to buy low on Monk isn't going to close the value gap on a JK S&T deal, especially given the Warriors salary issues.

This exactly. Some have referred to Monk as an asset in these proposed deals and I think that's nuts. Inefficient on offense and a distinct negative on defense. I'd take Sexton over him 10 times out of 10 and the Jazz had to attach an SRP to his expiring contract to move him. I might think about taking him and his $60+MM guaranteed money if SAC attached their unprotected 2026 FRP.

[DB23]

Monk's archetype (PG sized SG with limited/no defense) isn't in demand around the league at this point. Teams that would be interested in him on-court only would want him cheap - and his contract means that isn't really possible.

Also any 3rd team that's looking to buy low on Monk isn't going to close the value gap on a JK S&T deal, especially given the Warriors salary issues.

This exactly. Some have referred to Monk as an asset in these proposed deals and I think that's nuts. Inefficient on offense and a distinct negative on defense. I'd take Sexton over him 10 times out of 10 and the Jazz had to attach an SRP to his expiring contract to move him. I might think about taking him and his $60+MM guaranteed money if SAC attached their unprotected 2026 FRP.

This is it.

The realities of the new cba haven’t dawned on kings fans in this thread or kuminga either apparently.

The only reason the dubs do this deal is for the salary slot.

[Sactowndog]

I get you don’t want to hear it. But that’s really likely negative value for us.

I don’t really care. Go with the qualifying offer and get nothing. You lose both the pick and the salary slot.

Yeah we don’t care either (dubs fans at least)

Honestly seems you want the trade more than us.

The funny part is you think it’s some threat - take our bad contract or get nothing!!!! Yeah bro we don’t want it

Not really a threat. Once he is on the qualifying offer he loses bird rights per my understanding. So you will likely get nothing but our deal is negative than that is fine.

[Sactowndog]

when is the Kuminga drama over? Is the deadline Oct 1?

Yep. Likely over this weekend with him taking the Qualifying offer.

[NW]

It's funny how the ones most predicting/hoping for Kuminga to take the QO are Kings fans. None of the analysts in the league - from Lowe to Windhorst/Bontemps, to Fischer/Stein to Siegel expect that to be the outcome.

Crazy that for some Kings fans the closest thing they get to a win is the hope GS loses a player for nothing or gets fleeced in a deal by the Kings

[ChuckDurn]

Aside from questions about fit, contracts, etc…… in the Kuminga for Monk/#1 pick discussions (with Hield or Moody having to be sent somewhere) is the fact that it would necessitate a follow-up move from the Warriors to balance the roster. (Especially if Moody was sent out.)

With it being reported that Horford, Melton, Payton, and Seth Curry are basically locked in to deals once the Kuminga situation is resolved, the Warriors are arguably already overloaded with guards and light in the area of forwards, with Curry x2, Podziemski, Hield, Melton, Payton, and likely Will Richard (because of his low salary, he is expected to get a spot). The only one of those guys who can arguably “guard up” is Payton. The only forwards on the roster would be Butler, Green (who obviously plays some at the center spot), Kuminga, Moody, and Santos. At center, the Warriors would have Horford, Post, and Jackson-Davis. This is if they fill all 15 spots, obviously Richard would be the one who would get a different contract if they go with 14.

Swapping Kuminga for Monk throws the roster even further out of balance than it already would be….. and keeping in mind that Butler and Green will both likely miss time for injuries and/or rest, there basically is zero real proven depth at the forward spot (especially if Moody goes out to acquire Monk).

It’s almost impossible for me to believe that the Warriors wouldn’t be trying to make this into a 3- or 4- team deal, bringing back larger wings or forwards, because of the ridiculous overbalance the roster would have at the guard spots (and not “big guards who can fill in at the 3”) and dearth of depth at the forward spot. And yes, I know these days it’s a “position-less” league and Kerr loves playing small ball, but a some point it just doesn’t make any sense to construct a roster which has such little flexibility and ability to play against bigger, more athletic teams.

[Scoot McGroot]

when is the Kuminga drama over? Is the deadline Oct 1?

Qualifying offer expires 10/1. GSW COULD extend it, but they don't have to. And he'd remain a restricted free agent either way. So, JK would likely sign at the deadline if no better options?

[SkyHook]

I don’t really care. Go with the qualifying offer and get nothing. You lose both the pick and the salary slot.

Yeah we don’t care either (dubs fans at least)

Honestly seems you want the trade more than us.

The funny part is you think it’s some threat - take our bad contract or get nothing!!!! Yeah bro we don’t want it

Not really a threat. Once he is on the qualifying offer he loses bird rights per my understanding. So you will likely get nothing but our deal is negative than that is fine.

Incorrect. If he finishes the season with the Warriors they will still retain his Bird rights next summer, either to keep him or in a sign-and-trade. It's only if he is traded while he's signed to the QO contract (during the season) that they're lost. If he has a good season he could still return far better assets than anything presented here in a sign-and-trade to an over the cap team.

[giberish]

Aside from questions about fit, contracts, etc…… in the Kuminga for Monk/#1 pick discussions (with Hield or Moody having to be sent somewhere) is the fact that it would necessitate a follow-up move from the Warriors to balance the roster. (Especially if Moody was sent out.)

With it being reported that Horford, Melton, Payton, and Seth Curry are basically locked in to deals once the Kuminga situation is resolved, the Warriors are arguably already overloaded with guards and light in the area of forwards, with Curry x2, Podziemski, Hield, Melton, Payton, and likely Will Richard (because of his low salary, he is expected to get a spot). The only one of those guys who can arguably “guard up” is Payton. The only forwards on the roster would be Butler, Green (who obviously plays some at the center spot), Kuminga, Moody, and Santos. At center, the Warriors would have Horford, Post, and Jackson-Davis. This is if they fill all 15 spots, obviously Richard would be the one who would get a different contract if they go with 14.

Swapping Kuminga for Monk throws the roster even further out of balance than it already would be….. and keeping in mind that Butler and Green will both likely miss time for injuries and/or rest, there basically is zero real proven depth at the forward spot (especially if Moody goes out to acquire Monk).

It’s almost impossible for me to believe that the Warriors wouldn’t be trying to make this into a 3- or 4- team deal, bringing back larger wings or forwards, because of the ridiculous overbalance the roster would have at the guard spots (and not “big guards who can fill in at the 3”) and dearth of depth at the forward spot. And yes, I know these days it’s a “position-less” league and Kerr loves playing small ball, but a some point it just doesn’t make any sense to construct a roster which has such little flexibility and ability to play against bigger, more athletic teams.

Yeah I think people pushing JK for Monk deals don't understand the Warriors roster. Losing JK without getting a replacement big wing in return creates a major hole in the Warriors roster while a Heild for Monk swap has very little effect. Sure the team can go a game or two at full health without JK, but they need his size in the forward rotation - especially once you understand that neither Butler nor Draymond are playing 82 games a year.

IMO the only way it had legs from the Warriors side is if they got a high enough value pick to swap Monk for better fit - including backfilling the big forward role. With as little value as PG sized SG's have around the league that was going to require significant incentive (as opposed to the minor incentive offered which would probably be needed just to dump Heild leaving the Warriors with no extra assets to fix their severe roster balance issues).

[Godaddycurse]

Yeah we don’t care either (dubs fans at least)

Honestly seems you want the trade more than us.

The funny part is you think it’s some threat - take our bad contract or get nothing!!!! Yeah bro we don’t want it

Not really a threat. Once he is on the qualifying offer he loses bird rights per my understanding. So you will likely get nothing but our deal is negative than that is fine.

Incorrect. If he finishes the season with the Warriors they will still retain his Bird rights next summer, either to keep him or in a sign-and-trade. It's only if he is traded while he's signed to the QO contract (during the season) that they're lost. If he has a good season he could still return far better assets than anything presented here in a sign-and-trade to an over the cap team.

He would still have BYC issues next year though which is even harder to overcome if he has a good season

[gswhoops]

If this were possible the Kings would have done it already and we would not be talking at all.

The Warriors are either getting nothing for Kuminga if he signs the QO or they get a little something for him by getting Monk as an asset and a protected first.

I get you don’t want to hear it. But that’s really likely negative value for us.

I don’t really care. Go with the qualifying offer and get nothing. You lose both the pick and the salary slot.

Oh god, whatever will we do without a dime-a-dozen bench gunner and a pretend 1st round pick six years from now

[Sactowndog]

It's funny how the ones most predicting/hoping for Kuminga to take the QO are Kings fans. None of the analysts in the league - from Lowe to Windhorst/Bontemps, to Fischer/Stein to Siegel expect that to be the outcome.

Crazy that for some Kings fans the closest thing they get to a win is the hope GS loses a player for nothing or gets fleeced in a deal by the Kings

I have seen many people predict he takes the qualifying offer. I get you think he will not so we shall see.

[Nate the Great]

If this were possible the Kings would have done it already and we would not be talking at all.

The Warriors are either getting nothing for Kuminga if he signs the QO or they get a little something for him by getting Monk as an asset and a protected first.

I get you don’t want to hear it. But that’s really likely negative value for us.

I don’t really care. Go with the qualifying offer and get nothing. You lose both the pick and the salary slot.

Oh no, the Warriors don’t get the chance to make their team worse in exchange for a late draft pick six years from now. How tragic.