PF targets

[SuperBad]

I want Stew to play more than 20 minutes, and shoot 4 threes a game. At least for the first 30+ games

[Crymson]

Stew is totally wasted at PF. Maybe Reed can play there if he makes a huge leap as a shooter, but why bother?

Duncan has gotten minutes at PF before and he's sure to see them again if JB chooses to be flexible. PF is a far more flexible position than the average fan seems to realize.

Would just like Stew out there with Duren when teams go double bigs. Like the Knicks did vs us

Tobias did fine against KAT. It was Duren who got torched by him.

What the Pistons might gain defensively by having Stew at PF would be almost certainly be more than lost by how much he costs on offense.

[Canadafan]

Stew is totally wasted at PF. Maybe Reed can play there if he makes a huge leap as a shooter, but why bother?

Duncan has gotten minutes at PF before and he's sure to see them again if JB chooses to be flexible. PF is a far more flexible position than the average fan seems to realize.

Would just like Stew out there with Duren when teams go double bigs. Like the Knicks did vs us

Tobias did fine against KAT. It was Duren who got torched by him.

What the Pistons might gain defensively by having Stew at PF would be almost certainly be more than lost by how much he costs on offense.

Mitchell Robinson and Towns at same time was a problem for us

[tmorgan]

Mitchell Robinson is one the guys Duren can actually guard, because there’s no decision-making process involved, and because he’s a good enough athlete to deal with him. Just gotta watch the back cuts.

[the_l_train]

Mitchell Robinson is one the guys Duren can actually guard, because there’s no decision-making process involved, and because he’s a good enough athlete to deal with him. Just gotta watch the back cuts.

Mitchell Robinson may also be the most unreliable guy in the league injury wise. Probably an 80% chance he wont be healthy by the playoffs next year based on his history.

Duren really needs to figure out guarding stretch-5s though….his biggest weakness by far and guys like KAT and Myles Turner completely dominate him.

[Crymson]

Mitchell Robinson and Towns at same time was a problem for us

The problem was Duren, not the presence of the two bigs on the other side. Tobias did fine against KAT. Robinson got the best of Duren on the boards, and Duren is a general defensive liability.

[Pharaoh]

Not sure why there's concern about the back up 4 spot.

Ausar, Robinson (and Holland) can all log time there. They'll have to otherwise they'll barely play:

Cade 30, Ivey 18
Ivey 12, Levert 22, Holland 14
Ausar 24, Holland 12, Robinson 12
Tobias 30, Robinson 12, Ausar 6
Duren 26, Stewart 22

That's 9 guys, all playing between 22 and 30 minutes a night.

Sasser & Reed next in line

More concerned about the lack of a real PG, especially after last season.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[tmorgan]

Not sure why there's concern about the back up 4 spot.

Ausar, Robinson (and Holland) can all log time there. They'll have to otherwise they'll barely play:

Cade 30, Ivey 18
Ivey 12, Levert 22, Holland 14
Ausar 24, Holland 12, Robinson 12
Tobias 30, Robinson 12, Ausar 6
Duren 26, Stewart 22

That's 9 guys, all playing between 22 and 30 minutes a night.

Sasser & Reed next in line

More concerned about the lack of a real PG, especially after last season.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

I can tell you why… just from your lineup above.

Ivey isn’t an acceptable PG. His turnover rate on a per-possession basis is worse than Cade’s (which is fairly bad), except without the elite creation for others. He sucks as a PG. You want to give him developmental time there in blowouts either way, fine, but he’s not a serious PG. He’s a scorer, currently with weak defense despite great athletic tools.

Our current best backup “pg” option is Levert, who is better there than you think. Career-wise, he’s 4 apg and 1.8 to/g, solid enough, but that ratio is even better since his age 26 season five years ago. It’s still not 3-to-1, but it’s pretty close. He takes care of the ball well and is a decent enough creator when asked. It’d be nice if his outside shot was more consistent, but that’s Caris — he’s played this way since college.

Caris as PG for 12-14 minutes a game is a much better situation than our current backups at the 4. I actually really like that you DIDN’T put Ron there like a lot of people are doing. Ron isn’t a four and shouldn’t be a four, likely ever. He’s a good perimeter defender and a good slasher, and we’re hoping his outside shot comes around soon. He’s definitely not ready now to bang for boards and may never be, so unless you’re counting on Duren and Ausar and Cade to do all the rebounding (they are good collectlively, mind you) while Ron leaks every time, that isn’t going to work. Ausar has a better body for a 4, but that’s a huge waste of defense. Duncan Robinson will get absolutely molested as a four, though having his offense on the floor will likely create a big mismatch if you aren’t playing a non-shooter (Ausar in particular) elsewhere on the perimeter. If you are, they’ll just cross-match the big onto Ausar.

We have no good options at the 4 outside of Tobias if you’re trying at all to maximize each player’s potential. If anything, I see things just as I did last year — we need a shooting four long term (something Tobias does just fine for now) that can handle themselves on defense. Ivey is likely the odd man out because he doesn’t defend and has creation issues. Ron and Ausar are the disruptive defensive wings every team wants. We just don’t have the bigs we need yet unless Duren figures things out, and even then, Stew is still a 5 so we have no real 4.

Ivey (and stuff) for Lauri still makes a ton of sense, but Utah doesn’t seem to want Ivey and is going to want too much else in addition. Just keep on the lookout for other legit scoring 4’s that don’t completely suck on defense. We’ll find one.

[Invictus88]

Not sure why there's concern about the back up 4 spot.

Ausar, Robinson (and Holland) can all log time there. They'll have to otherwise they'll barely play:

Cade 30, Ivey 18
Ivey 12, Levert 22, Holland 14
Ausar 24, Holland 12, Robinson 12
Tobias 30, Robinson 12, Ausar 6
Duren 26, Stewart 22

That's 9 guys, all playing between 22 and 30 minutes a night.

Sasser & Reed next in line

More concerned about the lack of a real PG, especially after last season.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

I can tell you why… just from your lineup above.

Ivey isn’t an acceptable PG. His turnover rate on a per-possession basis is worse than Cade’s (which is fairly bad), except without the elite creation for others. He sucks as a PG. You want to give him developmental time there in blowouts either way, fine, but he’s not a serious PG. He’s a scorer, currently with weak defense despite great athletic tools.

Our current best backup “pg” option is Levert, who is better there than you think. Career-wise, he’s 4 apg and 1.8 to/g, solid enough, but that ratio is even better since his age 26 season five years ago. It’s still not 3-to-1, but it’s pretty close. He takes care of the ball well and is a decent enough creator when asked. It’d be nice if his outside shot was more consistent, but that’s Caris — he’s played this way since college.

Caris as PG for 12-14 minutes a game is a much better situation than our current backups at the 4. I actually really like that you DIDN’T put Ron there like a lot of people are doing. Ron isn’t a four and shouldn’t be a four, likely ever. He’s a good perimeter defender and a good slasher, and we’re hoping his outside shot comes around soon. He’s definitely not ready now to bang for boards and may never be, so unless you’re counting on Duren and Ausar and Cade to do all the rebounding (they are good collectlively, mind you) while Ron leaks every time, that isn’t going to work. Ausar has a better body for a 4, but that’s a huge waste of defense. Duncan Robinson will get absolutely molested as a four, though having his offense on the floor will likely create a big mismatch if you aren’t playing a non-shooter (Ausar in particular) elsewhere on the perimeter. If you are, they’ll just cross-match the big onto Ausar.

We have no good options at the 4 outside of Tobias if you’re trying at all to maximize each player’s potential. If anything, I see things just as I did last year — we need a shooting four long term (something Tobias does just fine for now) that can handle themselves on defense. Ivey is likely the odd man out because he doesn’t defend and has creation issues. Ron and Ausar are the disruptive defensive wings every team wants. We just don’t have the bigs we need yet unless Duren figures things out, and even then, Stew is still a 5 so we have no real 4.

Ivey (and stuff) for Lauri still makes a ton of sense, but Utah doesn’t seem to want Ivey and is going to want too much else in addition. Just keep on the lookout for other legit scoring 4’s that don’t completely suck on defense. We’ll find one.

I'm not really concerned about the backup 4. I'm concerned about the starting 4 once Tobias falls off. We haven’t been able to find a long-term solution there outside of acquiring Tobias.. in decades?

[pistons4ever]

I think that ron could play the 4.

Sure, He would be a small one, but some of us want Eason but he isnt bigger than Ron.

I think i am the only one but Ron reminds me a little bit Dennis Rodman in his first years where he became the worm and was a great weapon as a Defender for both forward spots

I dont say that he will become such a rebounder . His reaching IS young Dennis Rodman as an athletic, plastic man like Defender WHO can score better...dont forget the rodman Had one season with over 11 ppg

His long legs, his motor, his attitude ....has Bad Boys written all over him

[SuperBad]

I agree on the Rodman comparison I’ve though that from the start, it’s mostly I think effort he plays with.

[Crymson]

I think that comparisons of young players to Hall of Famers are always more than a tad premature and very unlikely to pan out.

Rodman was one of the greatest defenders and most elite athletes of his generation. As much as I like Holland, and as much as he seems to have a killer work ethic, he doesn't compare as an athlete and it'd be a major coup if he were to even come close as a defender.

As for him playing power forward, I think it's completely plausible if he can continue to add muscle. He'll presumably hit the floor at around 210. Add another 10 pounds and, at 6'8", he's not going to be undersized. I've seen a lot of people overstating the size of the average power forward in today's league. They're chiefly in the 6'8" range; where Holland currently falls short is in bulk, not size.

[BadMofoPimp]

I think that ron could play the 4.

Sure, He would be a small one, but some of us want Eason but he isnt bigger than Ron.

I think i am the only one but Ron reminds me a little bit Dennis Rodman in his first years where he became the worm and was a great weapon as a Defender for both forward spots

I dont say that he will become such a rebounder . His reaching IS young Dennis Rodman as an athletic, plastic man like Defender WHO can score better...dont forget the rodman Had one season with over 11 ppg

His long legs, his motor, his attitude ....has Bad Boys written all over him

Ron is the same height as Harris and is more mobile while only being 10lbs lighter. Just needs to get stronger. Rodman was a beanpole SF his first few years in the league. Ron will be fine at PF once he gets his 3 going and will be a capable backup over whatever leftovers the Pistons can find around the league at a cheap price. With Auser also able to put in 5mpg if needed, don't really see an issue.

[tmorgan]

Listed weights are often not updated. Ron is nowhere near Tobias in terms of strength and body weight. There’s a 20-30 pound difference, I’d guess, and a good portion of that is in the legs. Tobias is stout. Ron may never be that kind of build, he’s more the lanky type, which is why he’s a 3, and closer to a 2 than a 4.

All that I’ve said in this thread, though… Ron needs more minutes. I don’t care where they are, really, if he gets 24 minutes a game this year. He’s the future.

[Canadafan]

Read on Twitter

?t=TUsghsj55dPnBrsr12ujaA&s=19

Still don't want to move Ivey Ausar or Ron for him.
Tobias plus Levert or Duncan plus 1st(s) along with Reed or Sasser for him is all id do. I guess thats not enough but maybe Utah would want to move off his contract and pick up some draft picks for him.
Beasely could be signed later on after this trade happens.

I like what Langdon has done. We are deep as **** and just let the youth improve. Also like Tobias here so I'm conflicted. If it happens id be happy but also happy to not do it

[Kilo]

Team has too much comraderie to break up the vibe season for Lauri. Team will be given at least to the TDL, and probably the off season before TL makes a big move that breaks up the lockerroom for a big return. If Ausar and/or Holland show out to be Robin's, all of a sudden the PFOTF can be the 2026 22nd overall draft pick.

[tmorgan]

Team has too much comraderie to break up the vibe season for Lauri. Team will be given at least to the TDL, and probably the off season before TL makes a big move that breaks up the lockerroom for a big return. If Ausar and/or Holland show out to be Robin's, all of a sudden the PFOTF can be the 2026 22nd overall draft pick.

That’s another reason why I wouldn’t mind Ivey as the centerpiece for Lauri if it were possible. It’s just a feeling, but I don’t think Ivey fits as a personality as well as the rest of the young guys. I won’t get into details because I don’t want to offend anyone, but it’s there to see if you look.

[Crymson]

Yay, another stupid "the East is weak this season" trade idea, as if the Pistons should make a less-than-preferable trade based on a small possibility of contending in the East in this one season. Wooo, let's go all-in in order to have a very nebulous chance of maybe making the conference finals for one season if a lot of things cut right. Great.

The notion that Lauri is "one of the better sidekicks you can get in the league" where the Pistons are concerned is objectively wrong. This guy falsely conflates "creates very little offense" with "doesn't need the ball." The latter is good, the former is not, and Lauri is the former. He can do very little for himself and is very much an off-ball #3 option who'd make very little sense for the Pistons, who do not currently have anything in the realm of an established postseason-caliber #2 on-ball creator on the roster.

This roster also currently has only one young player who's proven that he can start for a contender. It has no business making a big trade at all. It's for good reason that one of the chief priorities -- which the FO has made clear in both deed and word -- is to see where the youth stand and what they can do. It's essential data to guide where this team should go next.

These talking heads are for the most part unfamiliar with where the Pistons stand and couldn't care less about the Pistons building a sustainable contender. Simmons would not be suggesting this sort of trade for the Celtics if they were in the Pistons' position; he'd want them to build a contender, not make a premature trade for a less-than-ideal target.

[Snakebites]

I think Ainge messed up by not trading Lauri after his 22-23 season.

Now that he has a massive contract and is coming off of two seasons where his production has been hampered by injuries and blatant tanking, his value isn’t what it once was.

I’m not quite as down on him as some but he’s not worth all that much in a trade at that salary point, and I don’t think he’s good enough to be the second best player on a contender.

And he really needs to be that good to justify acquiring him at that price point- both in terms of his salary and Ainge’s likely asking price.

[Crymson]

I’m not quite as down on him as some but he’s not worth all that much in a trade at that salary point, and I don’t think he’s good enough to be the second best player on a contender.

I think he's on a fundamental level not good enough to be the second-best player on a contender. The second-best player player on a contender pretty much invariably needs to be an all-star-caliber scorer capable of creating postseason offense. At the very least, he certainly can't be a guy like Lauri who can do very little for himself. Not that the defense is there either, because it isn't.