***The Official 2025 WNBA Playoffs Thread***

[Shewasfly]

'd be really curious to see what Angel's trade value would be.
I love Angel, and think she could be special, but I'm not sure what she'd command in a trade. I think it could be lower than people may think.

In addition to the factors that you mention, there would be a personality discount. Forcing her way out of her first WNBA team would not enhance a reputation that was sketchy when she joined the league. For example, there is this quote from a pre-draft article -

"Some of the stuff she does is disrespectful to the game," a general manager said.

This would matter less in the NBA, but in the WNBA, where we have already seen a good player in Chennedy Carter outright blackballed for personality issues, this surely must be considered.

Yeah I have to say that I felt like the hype surrounding Angel in her rookie year - which she earned to be clear - was setting her up for problems.

Coming out of college she was brash and antagonistic as a matter of course, but between the support & success in the college program, and her immediate success in the pros, which led to among other thing, an endorsement with McDonalds, it took the rookie year that would normally humble a player a bit, and made her double and triple down on the individualism.

Then the Sky fall apart last year - not her fault - and you take that same attitude, but now she's getting asked about what's wrong with her team instead of some drama with those outside of the team, and she answers the same way, which is something literally no team anywhere would ever want.

I think it's possible that the Angel-Sky relationship gets mended... but in the long-term, I think that only happens if the team leaps into contending status to give the media something to talk about other than "the Sky aren't going anywhere".

Then there's the matter of other teams being interested. The odds are not zero, but any team looking to acquire her needs to understand and accept that she's out there for herself, and that there's a good chance she'll cause drama if there are any team struggles.

You add to this the factor that until she learns how to actually shoot, her rebounding-focus is not typically the focus of the team's alpha. She's much like Dennis Rodman... but Rodman was never an alpha on the court, rather he was the one who pleased the alphas (Isiah, Jordan) by getting their misses and passing the ball back to them.

I feel like it's entirely possible that Reese eventually exits the WNBA like Liz Cambage did as they have quite a bit in common - plenty of talent, but treating a team sport like an individual sport relationship-wise, which really only works if the team success is sufficient... and we shouldn't forget that Cambage was a core part of a team with the best regular season record which still wasn't enough to keep the devil at bay, while Angel's literally never played on a team that was even mediocre in the W.

This is such a bad take all around. Everyone is blowing up the comments she made about the team not needing to rely on a 35 year old guard that just had a horrible season ending injury. Anyone else says it and those comments are accepted as a competitive player that wants to win and is challenging her FO to do better. At MOST its social media fodder about her being disrespectful to that particular player and it blows over in a few days. But because it's Angel it immediately became a "she's only about herself" narrative and a ridiculous suspension and public scapegoating. Meanwhile, Angel is pretty universally liked by most players in the league based on the interactions we've seen at AS weekend and Unrivaled.

I think Angel will be fine. I could see New York making a move for her. Playing with and learning from Stewie would elevate her in ways that a young big like her need. I think Chicago wants to build around Kamilla, and Kamilla wants Angel around. So it'll be interesting to see any discontent from Kamilla when Angel leaves (I agree she has no intention of mending anything with Chicago after the suspension).

I think there would be plenty of other teams glad to have her as well. The idea that rebounds are not a big deal anymore is hilarious when watching this years playoffs and seeing how much rebounds are literally making and breaking teams when it comes to wins or losses. This does not even get into Angel being an excellent ball handler and passer for her position. They literally ran the offense through her and it was the only time the offense looked somewhat cohesive.

[Shewasfly]

Not Playoff related, but Annie Costabile thinks there's only a 20-30% chance Angel suits up for the Sky again. Not reporting, just her opinion.

I'd be really curious to see what Angel's trade value would be.
I love Angel, and think she could be special, but I'm not sure what she'd command in a trade. I think it could be lower than people may think.

By my count, she's about the 8th best PF in the league right now.
Just on pure position, she's not as good as A'ja, Phee, AT, Stewie, Nneka, Hamby, Satou, and IMO, Naz.

That's not counting some younger bigs that may already be better or have more long term potential (Malonga and Kiki), or other bigs that could sort of count as a PF.

Not going to quibble on the specific players, but 8-9ish right now seems right.

Of course, the big part of her value is the upside of what she could become.
The issue is that there's still a massive variance in how good/great she can become. MVP is in the range of outcomes. She needs a lot of development to get to that, but it's certainly possible. AT with more upside with good shoulders is certainly possible (though thinking that's likely really underrates AT. AT is really damn good players like her don't grow on trees).

But if Angel doesn't continue to see big improvements in her offensive game, the upside as a player you build around is somewhat limited.

I hope this isn't seen as a knock. I think everybody here knows how much I love Angel.

But if a team is going to give up multiple 1st round picks for a player, it needs to be slam dunk best player on a title contender sort of player. Angel is getting there, but we surely don't know that yet.

Angel is an insanely unique player. Trying to gauge her trade value after year 2 seems impossible.

I agree with your ranking of Angel. That said, she has a TON of potential, so I'm not sure why there is any question on her market value. In fact, dare I say, she has a lot more potential than some other players who some would claim are top 10 players already, when they are not even top 10 in their position. There are only two players I see as having more potential: Malonga and Paige (who will probably be seen as the best player in the league at some point).

More than likely the so called attitude thing is going to be more of an issue for her than the value in her actual skill set. But I think that will be more coming from the organizations than the players themselves. She seems well liked by the players.

[Doctor MJ]

In addition to the factors that you mention, there would be a personality discount. Forcing her way out of her first WNBA team would not enhance a reputation that was sketchy when she joined the league. For example, there is this quote from a pre-draft article -

"Some of the stuff she does is disrespectful to the game," a general manager said.

This would matter less in the NBA, but in the WNBA, where we have already seen a good player in Chennedy Carter outright blackballed for personality issues, this surely must be considered.

Yeah I have to say that I felt like the hype surrounding Angel in her rookie year - which she earned to be clear - was setting her up for problems.

Coming out of college she was brash and antagonistic as a matter of course, but between the support & success in the college program, and her immediate success in the pros, which led to among other thing, an endorsement with McDonalds, it took the rookie year that would normally humble a player a bit, and made her double and triple down on the individualism.

Then the Sky fall apart last year - not her fault - and you take that same attitude, but now she's getting asked about what's wrong with her team instead of some drama with those outside of the team, and she answers the same way, which is something literally no team anywhere would ever want.

I think it's possible that the Angel-Sky relationship gets mended... but in the long-term, I think that only happens if the team leaps into contending status to give the media something to talk about other than "the Sky aren't going anywhere".

Then there's the matter of other teams being interested. The odds are not zero, but any team looking to acquire her needs to understand and accept that she's out there for herself, and that there's a good chance she'll cause drama if there are any team struggles.

You add to this the factor that until she learns how to actually shoot, her rebounding-focus is not typically the focus of the team's alpha. She's much like Dennis Rodman... but Rodman was never an alpha on the court, rather he was the one who pleased the alphas (Isiah, Jordan) by getting their misses and passing the ball back to them.

I feel like it's entirely possible that Reese eventually exits the WNBA like Liz Cambage did as they have quite a bit in common - plenty of talent, but treating a team sport like an individual sport relationship-wise, which really only works if the team success is sufficient... and we shouldn't forget that Cambage was a core part of a team with the best regular season record which still wasn't enough to keep the devil at bay, while Angel's literally never played on a team that was even mediocre in the W.

This is such a bad take all around. Everyone is blowing up the comments she made about the team not needing to rely on a 35 year old guard that just had a horrible season ending injury. Anyone else says it and those comments are accepted as a competitive player that wants to win and is challenging her FO to do better. At MOST its social media fodder about her being disrespectful to that particular player and it blows over in a few days. But because it's Angel it immediately became a "she's only about herself" narrative and a ridiculous suspension and public scapegoating. Meanwhile, Angel is pretty universally liked by most players in the league based on the interactions we've seen at AS weekend and Unrivaled.

I think Angel will be fine. I could see New York making a move for her. Playing with and learning from Stewie would elevate her in ways that a young big like her need. I think Chicago wants to build around Kamilla, and Kamilla wants Angel around. So it'll be interested to see any discontent from Kamilla when Angel leaves (I agree she has no intention of mending anything with Chicago after the suspension).

I think there would be plenty of other teams glad to have her as well. The idea that rebounds are not a big deal anymore is hilarious when watching this years playoffs and seeing how much rebounds are literally making and breaking teams when it comes to wins or losses. This does not even get into Angel being an excellent ball handler and passer for her position. They literally ran the offense through her and it was the only time the offense looked somewhat cohesive.

So I have made "such a bad take" which also aligns with "everyone"? Okay, noted.

"But because it's Angel..." well yeah, your prior reputation always affects interpretation of your actions no matter who you are, but when you're a celebrity known for aggressive confrontation and self-promotion, of course it's going to be what everyone thinks about.

"Angel is pretty universally liked by most players". I think you're operating without any kind of rigorous study and looking to take the fact that Angel's yet to be burned by her attitude as evidence that it doesn't actually bother her peers.

Re: Angel in NY. I struggle to see how Angel fits in on a team with 3 6'4" plus starters and the two non-Stewie ones are shooting 3 at >40% clip.

Re: they ran the offense through her. The Sky have had a bad offense with Angel - worse when she's on the bench to be sure - but the idea that a team like the Liberty would be looking to do something like this with they have Sabrina, is just a non-starter as I see it.

To be clear though, I'm not saying rebounding isn't important, I'm just saying that generally rebounding specialists need humility in order for the stars on their team to tolerate them. As I've alluded to, people may think Rodman did whatever the hell he wanted, but the key to his NBA success was always about pleasing superior players. If Angel wants to not have the same situation, she needs to show serious improvement as a scorer.

[Doctor MJ]

Not Playoff related, but Annie Costabile thinks there's only a 20-30% chance Angel suits up for the Sky again. Not reporting, just her opinion.

I'd be really curious to see what Angel's trade value would be.
I love Angel, and think she could be special, but I'm not sure what she'd command in a trade. I think it could be lower than people may think.

By my count, she's about the 8th best PF in the league right now.
Just on pure position, she's not as good as A'ja, Phee, AT, Stewie, Nneka, Hamby, Satou, and IMO, Naz.

That's not counting some younger bigs that may already be better or have more long term potential (Malonga and Kiki), or other bigs that could sort of count as a PF.

Not going to quibble on the specific players, but 8-9ish right now seems right.

Of course, the big part of her value is the upside of what she could become.
The issue is that there's still a massive variance in how good/great she can become. MVP is in the range of outcomes. She needs a lot of development to get to that, but it's certainly possible. AT with more upside with good shoulders is certainly possible (though thinking that's likely really underrates AT. AT is really damn good players like her don't grow on trees).

But if Angel doesn't continue to see big improvements in her offensive game, the upside as a player you build around is somewhat limited.

I hope this isn't seen as a knock. I think everybody here knows how much I love Angel.

But if a team is going to give up multiple 1st round picks for a player, it needs to be slam dunk best player on a title contender sort of player. Angel is getting there, but we surely don't know that yet.

Angel is an insanely unique player. Trying to gauge her trade value after year 2 seems impossible.

I agree with your ranking of Angel. That said, she has a TON of potential, so I'm not sure why there is any question on her market value. In fact, dare I say, she has a lot more potential than some other players who some would claim are top 10 players already, when they are not even top 10 in their position. There are only two players I see as having more potential: Malonga and Paige (who will probably be seen as the best player in the league at some point).

More than likely the so called attitude thing is going to be more of an issue for her than the value in her actual skill set. But I think that will be more coming from the organizations than the players themselves. She seems well liked by the players.

Fascinating to me that someone believe Reese has more potential than Clark.

[Mephariel]

Not Playoff related, but Annie Costabile thinks there's only a 20-30% chance Angel suits up for the Sky again. Not reporting, just her opinion.

I'd be really curious to see what Angel's trade value would be.
I love Angel, and think she could be special, but I'm not sure what she'd command in a trade. I think it could be lower than people may think.

By my count, she's about the 8th best PF in the league right now.
Just on pure position, she's not as good as A'ja, Phee, AT, Stewie, Nneka, Hamby, Satou, and IMO, Naz.

That's not counting some younger bigs that may already be better or have more long term potential (Malonga and Kiki), or other bigs that could sort of count as a PF.

Not going to quibble on the specific players, but 8-9ish right now seems right.

Of course, the big part of her value is the upside of what she could become.
The issue is that there's still a massive variance in how good/great she can become. MVP is in the range of outcomes. She needs a lot of development to get to that, but it's certainly possible. AT with more upside with good shoulders is certainly possible (though thinking that's likely really underrates AT. AT is really damn good players like her don't grow on trees).

But if Angel doesn't continue to see big improvements in her offensive game, the upside as a player you build around is somewhat limited.

I hope this isn't seen as a knock. I think everybody here knows how much I love Angel.

But if a team is going to give up multiple 1st round picks for a player, it needs to be slam dunk best player on a title contender sort of player. Angel is getting there, but we surely don't know that yet.

Angel is an insanely unique player. Trying to gauge her trade value after year 2 seems impossible.

I agree with your ranking of Angel. That said, she has a TON of potential, so I'm not sure why there is any question on her market value. In fact, dare I say, she has a lot more potential than some other players who some would claim are top 10 players already, when they are not even top 10 in their position. There are only two players I see as having more potential: Malonga and Paige (who will probably be seen as the best player in the league at some point).

More than likely the so called attitude thing is going to be more of an issue for her than the value in her actual skill set. But I think that will be more coming from the organizations than the players themselves. She seems well liked by the players.

Fascinating to me that someone believe Reese has more potential than Clark.

She definitely doesn't. Angel is never going to be the first option on any team. But I believe Angel can be high impact player. Moving on from Chicago is probably the best thing for her and for the Sky. Is Cardoso/Reese combo a long term solution? They need players that can space the floor.

[MrDollarBills]

'd be really curious to see what Angel's trade value would be.
I love Angel, and think she could be special, but I'm not sure what she'd command in a trade. I think it could be lower than people may think.

In addition to the factors that you mention, there would be a personality discount. Forcing her way out of her first WNBA team would not enhance a reputation that was sketchy when she joined the league. For example, there is this quote from a pre-draft article -

"Some of the stuff she does is disrespectful to the game," a general manager said.

This would matter less in the NBA, but in the WNBA, where we have already seen a good player in Chennedy Carter outright blackballed for personality issues, this surely must be considered.

Yeah I have to say that I felt like the hype surrounding Angel in her rookie year - which she earned to be clear - was setting her up for problems.

Coming out of college she was brash and antagonistic as a matter of course, but between the support & success in the college program, and her immediate success in the pros, which led to among other thing, an endorsement with McDonalds, it took the rookie year that would normally humble a player a bit, and made her double and triple down on the individualism.

Then the Sky fall apart last year - not her fault - and you take that same attitude, but now she's getting asked about what's wrong with her team instead of some drama with those outside of the team, and she answers the same way, which is something literally no team anywhere would ever want.

I think it's possible that the Angel-Sky relationship gets mended... but in the long-term, I think that only happens if the team leaps into contending status to give the media something to talk about other than "the Sky aren't going anywhere".

Then there's the matter of other teams being interested. The odds are not zero, but any team looking to acquire her needs to understand and accept that she's out there for herself, and that there's a good chance she'll cause drama if there are any team struggles.

You add to this the factor that until she learns how to actually shoot, her rebounding-focus is not typically the focus of the team's alpha. She's much like Dennis Rodman... but Rodman was never an alpha on the court, rather he was the one who pleased the alphas (Isiah, Jordan) by getting their misses and passing the ball back to them.

I feel like it's entirely possible that Reese eventually exits the WNBA like Liz Cambage did as they have quite a bit in common - plenty of talent, but treating a team sport like an individual sport relationship-wise, which really only works if the team success is sufficient... and we shouldn't forget that Cambage was a core part of a team with the best regular season record which still wasn't enough to keep the devil at bay, while Angel's literally never played on a team that was even mediocre in the W.

I don't think Angel has done anything to be compared to Liz Cambage, who is a legit piece of garbage. That's going too far in my opinion

[MrDollarBills]

Not good. Phee is probably done for the rest of the playoffs and Unrivaled season.

Nope not good, and the idea that there was no foul on the play is just crazy.

I think you actually argue they should have called a foul in Phee before the steal for holding AT, and I don’t think what AT did was dirty, but she basically changed direction and ran through Phee as she reached for the (clean) tip.

I understand the idea of it being a loose ball situation - the tip came first - but when you let a bigger stronger player do that without consequence, it’s a recipe for them causing injury to others.

Then you add on top of that that that Phee literally could have fouled out in that play, but she shot no free throws the whole game, while being less physical than the other team is wild.

As I say all of that, AT just seemed to outfox Phee on the regular in the matchup. Steal after steal, it was incredibly impressive. I feel like AT is the smartest player in the W.


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I think that this is incidental contact. The steal was clean. I don't see how Thomas can avoid any of what happened as she was making a direct play on the ball.

[Green Chile]

Yeah, MJ I also think that's going a bit too far.

On the personality stuff, I don't think anything she's done is a major red flag so far. She's made some mistakes, but I'm not sure we can take too much from them yet.

Mentioning teammates by name was absolutely a mistake. She tried to walk it back, which is good. Bad way to go about it, but she's young.

I do agree with you that her rookie year success may not have been great for her. On the court, she's not a franchise player just yet. I think she can get there, but she's not there yet. A player acting like a true franchise player when they are not generally isn't good.

Angel is such a unique player. It's hard to imagine her in a developmental role, but you could make the case that would have been good for her. Instead she's been asked to carry a terrible franchise.

I would love to see the alternate universe where the Lynx keep the pick and take Angel.

Anyway, thank you guys for a great discussion. I personally can't figure out if Angel is going to be an MVP candidate or just a fantastic role player. It's going to be fun to see how her career plays out. Either way, I enjoy watching her play.

[Green Chile]

Not good. Phee is probably done for the rest of the playoffs and Unrivaled season.

Nope not good, and the idea that there was no foul on the play is just crazy.

I think you actually argue they should have called a foul in Phee before the steal for holding AT, and I don’t think what AT did was dirty, but she basically changed direction and ran through Phee as she reached for the (clean) tip.

I understand the idea of it being a loose ball situation - the tip came first - but when you let a bigger stronger player do that without consequence, it’s a recipe for them causing injury to others.

Then you add on top of that that that Phee literally could have fouled out in that play, but she shot no free throws the whole game, while being less physical than the other team is wild.

As I say all of that, AT just seemed to outfox Phee on the regular in the matchup. Steal after steal, it was incredibly impressive. I feel like AT is the smartest player in the W.


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Watch on YouTube

I think that this is incidental contact. The steal was clean. I don't see how Thomas can avoid any of what happened as she was making a direct play on the ball.

Royally sucks.
For Phee who is one of the best human beings on the planet.

This season demanded a Phee-A'ja showdown in the Finals.

I ain't mad at AT getting there, and winning it. I'd love that.

But I worry we're heading towards the Aces destroying the Mercury, and us all wondering what could have been in a Lynx-Aces Finals.

[Green Chile]

Do we have any news on the actual injury and severity for Phee?

It looked horrible and the wheelchair and all that. But is there still any hope that it just looked a lot worse than it was?

[wojoaderge]

Mentioning teammates by name was absolutely a mistake

For accuracy's sake, it was one teammate

[hermes]

reeve suspended for game 4 and a few of the lynx coaches got fined

[tone wone]

How is this a foul on AT? What am I missing?

That was a gruesome ankle turn by Collier but the incidental contact didn't really cause it. Her getting stripped so cleanly and abruptly did.

[Mephariel]

I agree it is not a foul.

Any updates on Phee's injury?

[ellobo]

Not good. Phee is probably done for the rest of the playoffs and Unrivaled season.

Nope not good, and the idea that there was no foul on the play is just crazy.

I think you actually argue they should have called a foul in Phee before the steal for holding AT, and I don’t think what AT did was dirty, but she basically changed direction and ran through Phee as she reached for the (clean) tip.

I understand the idea of it being a loose ball situation - the tip came first - but when you let a bigger stronger player do that without consequence, it’s a recipe for them causing injury to others.

Then you add on top of that that that Phee literally could have fouled out in that play, but she shot no free throws the whole game, while being less physical than the other team is wild.

As I say all of that, AT just seemed to outfox Phee on the regular in the matchup. Steal after steal, it was incredibly impressive. I feel like AT is the smartest player in the W.


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Watch on YouTube

I think that this is incidental contact. The steal was clean. I don't see how Thomas can avoid any of what happened as she was making a direct play on the ball.

I agree it wasn't a foul (the NBA officials Twitter account has also posted a statement to that effect), but very, very unfortunate for Phee and the Lynx.

I have very mixed feelings about Reeve being suspended. On the one hand, her actions probably warrant it: Going nuts on the court, cursing at a fan, and then going scorched earth in the press conference. On the other hand, it's an elimination playoff game and the Lynx are already down their superstar player. Suspending her seems like kicking them when they're down, and it affects the competitive integrity of the game and the series. I'd probably have gone with an especially hefty fine and a suspension to start next season.

[Shewasfly]

Yeah I have to say that I felt like the hype surrounding Angel in her rookie year - which she earned to be clear - was setting her up for problems.

Coming out of college she was brash and antagonistic as a matter of course, but between the support & success in the college program, and her immediate success in the pros, which led to among other thing, an endorsement with McDonalds, it took the rookie year that would normally humble a player a bit, and made her double and triple down on the individualism.

Then the Sky fall apart last year - not her fault - and you take that same attitude, but now she's getting asked about what's wrong with her team instead of some drama with those outside of the team, and she answers the same way, which is something literally no team anywhere would ever want.

I think it's possible that the Angel-Sky relationship gets mended... but in the long-term, I think that only happens if the team leaps into contending status to give the media something to talk about other than "the Sky aren't going anywhere".

Then there's the matter of other teams being interested. The odds are not zero, but any team looking to acquire her needs to understand and accept that she's out there for herself, and that there's a good chance she'll cause drama if there are any team struggles.

You add to this the factor that until she learns how to actually shoot, her rebounding-focus is not typically the focus of the team's alpha. She's much like Dennis Rodman... but Rodman was never an alpha on the court, rather he was the one who pleased the alphas (Isiah, Jordan) by getting their misses and passing the ball back to them.

I feel like it's entirely possible that Reese eventually exits the WNBA like Liz Cambage did as they have quite a bit in common - plenty of talent, but treating a team sport like an individual sport relationship-wise, which really only works if the team success is sufficient... and we shouldn't forget that Cambage was a core part of a team with the best regular season record which still wasn't enough to keep the devil at bay, while Angel's literally never played on a team that was even mediocre in the W.

This is such a bad take all around. Everyone is blowing up the comments she made about the team not needing to rely on a 35 year old guard that just had a horrible season ending injury. Anyone else says it and those comments are accepted as a competitive player that wants to win and is challenging her FO to do better. At MOST its social media fodder about her being disrespectful to that particular player and it blows over in a few days. But because it's Angel it immediately became a "she's only about herself" narrative and a ridiculous suspension and public scapegoating. Meanwhile, Angel is pretty universally liked by most players in the league based on the interactions we've seen at AS weekend and Unrivaled.

I think Angel will be fine. I could see New York making a move for her. Playing with and learning from Stewie would elevate her in ways that a young big like her need. I think Chicago wants to build around Kamilla, and Kamilla wants Angel around. So it'll be interested to see any discontent from Kamilla when Angel leaves (I agree she has no intention of mending anything with Chicago after the suspension).

I think there would be plenty of other teams glad to have her as well. The idea that rebounds are not a big deal anymore is hilarious when watching this years playoffs and seeing how much rebounds are literally making and breaking teams when it comes to wins or losses. This does not even get into Angel being an excellent ball handler and passer for her position. They literally ran the offense through her and it was the only time the offense looked somewhat cohesive.

So I have made "such a bad take" which also aligns with "everyone"? Okay, noted.

"But because it's Angel..." well yeah, your prior reputation always affects interpretation of your actions no matter who you are, but when you're a celebrity known for aggressive confrontation and self-promotion, of course it's going to be what everyone thinks about.

"Angel is pretty universally liked by most players". I think you're operating without any kind of rigorous study and looking to take the fact that Angel's yet to be burned by her attitude as evidence that it doesn't actually bother her peers.

Re: Angel in NY. I struggle to see how Angel fits in on a team with 3 6'4" plus starters and the two non-Stewie ones are shooting 3 at >40% clip.

Re: they ran the offense through her. The Sky have had a bad offense with Angel - worse when she's on the bench to be sure - but the idea that a team like the Liberty would be looking to do something like this with they have Sabrina, is just a non-starter as I see it.

To be clear though, I'm not saying rebounding isn't important, I'm just saying that generally rebounding specialists need humility in order for the stars on their team to tolerate them. As I've alluded to, people may think Rodman did whatever the hell he wanted, but the key to his NBA success was always about pleasing superior players. If Angel wants to not have the same situation, she needs to show serious improvement as a scorer.

Umm yes it was a bad take. I now realize from your other post it seems to be some bias based on CC fandom so I don't really see a point in continuing to engage. Agree to disagree.

[Shewasfly]

Nope not good, and the idea that there was no foul on the play is just crazy.

I think you actually argue they should have called a foul in Phee before the steal for holding AT, and I don’t think what AT did was dirty, but she basically changed direction and ran through Phee as she reached for the (clean) tip.

I understand the idea of it being a loose ball situation - the tip came first - but when you let a bigger stronger player do that without consequence, it’s a recipe for them causing injury to others.

Then you add on top of that that that Phee literally could have fouled out in that play, but she shot no free throws the whole game, while being less physical than the other team is wild.

As I say all of that, AT just seemed to outfox Phee on the regular in the matchup. Steal after steal, it was incredibly impressive. I feel like AT is the smartest player in the W.


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I think that this is incidental contact. The steal was clean. I don't see how Thomas can avoid any of what happened as she was making a direct play on the ball.

I agree it wasn't a foul (the NBA officials Twitter account has also posted a statement to that effect), but very, very unfortunate for Phee and the Lynx.

I have very mixed feelings about Reeve being suspended. On the one hand, her actions probably warrant it: Going nuts on the court, cursing at a fan, and then going scorched earth in the press conference. On the other hand, it's an elimination playoff game and the Lynx are already down their superstar player. Suspending her seems like kicking them when they're down, and it affects the competitive integrity of the game and the series. I'd probably have gone with an especially hefty fine and a suspension to start next season.

Tyler Marsh had an even worse run in earlier in the season. I don't think she should have been suspended. Tbh I don't even think what happened with Phee was a foul (although I'm starting to see why so many see AT as a dirty player).

But as soon as Reeve started railing on WNBA leadership I knew it was a wrap. She will probably have a target on her back for as long as she continues coaching tbh.

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah, MJ I also think that's going a bit too far.

On the personality stuff, I don't think anything she's done is a major red flag so far. She's made some mistakes, but I'm not sure we can take too much from them yet.

Mentioning teammates by name was absolutely a mistake. She tried to walk it back, which is good. Bad way to go about it, but she's young.

I do agree with you that her rookie year success may not have been great for her. On the court, she's not a franchise player just yet. I think she can get there, but she's not there yet. A player acting like a true franchise player when they are not generally isn't good.

Angel is such a unique player. It's hard to imagine her in a developmental role, but you could make the case that would have been good for her. Instead she's been asked to carry a terrible franchise.

I would love to see the alternate universe where the Lynx keep the pick and take Angel.

Anyway, thank you guys for a great discussion. I personally can't figure out if Angel is going to be an MVP candidate or just a fantastic role player. It's going to be fun to see how her career plays out. Either way, I enjoy watching her play.

Angel is a young woman who is learning and has had to deal with a lot. I don't think she was wrong with calling out the organization but she needed to keep it at that and not involve other players. That was a mistake.

That being said, the Sky are poorly managed and I don't blame her at all for bringing attention to it.

But Liz Cambage is literally a horrible human being. She's vile. Angel being compared to her is really over the top, I'm sorry. Angel has done nothing to anyone to remotely be compared to that piece of sh*t.

[MrDollarBills]

Nope not good, and the idea that there was no foul on the play is just crazy.

I think you actually argue they should have called a foul in Phee before the steal for holding AT, and I don’t think what AT did was dirty, but she basically changed direction and ran through Phee as she reached for the (clean) tip.

I understand the idea of it being a loose ball situation - the tip came first - but when you let a bigger stronger player do that without consequence, it’s a recipe for them causing injury to others.

Then you add on top of that that that Phee literally could have fouled out in that play, but she shot no free throws the whole game, while being less physical than the other team is wild.

As I say all of that, AT just seemed to outfox Phee on the regular in the matchup. Steal after steal, it was incredibly impressive. I feel like AT is the smartest player in the W.


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I think that this is incidental contact. The steal was clean. I don't see how Thomas can avoid any of what happened as she was making a direct play on the ball.

I agree it wasn't a foul (the NBA officials Twitter account has also posted a statement to that effect), but very, very unfortunate for Phee and the Lynx.

I have very mixed feelings about Reeve being suspended. On the one hand, her actions probably warrant it: Going nuts on the court, cursing at a fan, and then going scorched earth in the press conference. On the other hand, it's an elimination playoff game and the Lynx are already down their superstar player. Suspending her seems like kicking them when they're down, and it affects the competitive integrity of the game and the series. I'd probably have gone with an especially hefty fine and a suspension to start next season.

It was clean. I mean, I've seen AT try to hurt someone before. That wasn’t it. She was laser focused on the ball and dislodged it from Phee cleanly, once that happened everything else was incidental body contact.

Yeah i would have fined Reeve heavily for what she said but that's that. The suspension is just piling on.

I feel bad for Phee man. I just hope the damage is limited to her ankle and she doesn't require surgery.

[MrDollarBills]

Nope not good, and the idea that there was no foul on the play is just crazy.

I think you actually argue they should have called a foul in Phee before the steal for holding AT, and I don’t think what AT did was dirty, but she basically changed direction and ran through Phee as she reached for the (clean) tip.

I understand the idea of it being a loose ball situation - the tip came first - but when you let a bigger stronger player do that without consequence, it’s a recipe for them causing injury to others.

Then you add on top of that that that Phee literally could have fouled out in that play, but she shot no free throws the whole game, while being less physical than the other team is wild.

As I say all of that, AT just seemed to outfox Phee on the regular in the matchup. Steal after steal, it was incredibly impressive. I feel like AT is the smartest player in the W.


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I think that this is incidental contact. The steal was clean. I don't see how Thomas can avoid any of what happened as she was making a direct play on the ball.

Royally sucks.
For Phee who is one of the best human beings on the planet.

This season demanded a Phee-A'ja showdown in the Finals.

I ain't mad at AT getting there, and winning it. I'd love that.

But I worry we're heading towards the Aces destroying the Mercury, and us all wondering what could have been in a Lynx-Aces Finals.

Are we sure the Mercury are gonna get destroyed?

If they win here, they've beaten the former WNBA champions and last year's runner up in consecutive rounds. that's nothing to sneeze at.

It's so hard to win the WNBA championship. This playoffs makes it very clear.