Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole

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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2461 » by xdrta+ » Sun Sep 28, 2025 5:27 pm

giberish wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=TX9CTD8AfSxLb1RvZHbYug&s=19


I think they are certain now they have enough space below the Apron to sign Kuminga if need be.


Should have been done 2 months ago. There was never a scenario where GS wouldn't be able to do this. They weren't accepting a S&T deal that hard-capped them at the 1st apron and they had enough room under the 2nd for any sane JK deal (and no other team could offer $30M or something like that on a straight offer sheet).


What difference would it have made if it were done two months ago? Besides they won't officially sign him until Kuminga is resolved.

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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2462 » by giberish » Sun Sep 28, 2025 5:59 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
giberish wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=TX9CTD8AfSxLb1RvZHbYug&s=19


I think they are certain now they have enough space below the Apron to sign Kuminga if need be.


Should have been done 2 months ago. There was never a scenario where GS wouldn't be able to do this. They weren't accepting a S&T deal that hard-capped them at the 1st apron and they had enough room under the 2nd for any sane JK deal (and no other team could offer $30M or something like that on a straight offer sheet).


What difference would it have made if it were done two months ago? Besides they won't officially sign him until Kuminga is resolved.

Read on Twitter


I just feel like stringing along the vets like that is a bad look.

I also haven't heard of a plausible scenario where the team would have been hurt by signing everybody two months ago.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2463 » by xdrta+ » Sun Sep 28, 2025 6:17 pm

giberish wrote:
I just feel like stringing along the vets like that is a bad look.

I also haven't heard of a plausible scenario where the team would have been hurt by signing everybody two months ago.


If they had signed Horford to the TPMLE, as is expected, and four vet minimums, they would be hard-capped at the 2nd Apron. An RFA offer starting at 22.5M would have been impossible for the Warriors to match without making other moves. Unlikely, perhaps, but that was obviously their concern.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2464 » by gswhoops » Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:14 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
giberish wrote:
I just feel like stringing along the vets like that is a bad look.

I also haven't heard of a plausible scenario where the team would have been hurt by signing everybody two months ago.


If they had signed Horford to the TPMLE, as is expected, and four vet minimums, they would be hard-capped at the 2nd Apron. An RFA offer starting at 22.5M would have been impossible for the Warriors to match without making other moves. Unlikely, perhaps, but that was obviously their concern.

What was the plan if he got that kind of offer, renege on the Horford deal? That seems like a terrible look
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2465 » by xdrta+ » Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:33 pm

gswhoops wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
giberish wrote:
I just feel like stringing along the vets like that is a bad look.

I also haven't heard of a plausible scenario where the team would have been hurt by signing everybody two months ago.


If they had signed Horford to the TPMLE, as is expected, and four vet minimums, they would be hard-capped at the 2nd Apron. An RFA offer starting at 22.5M would have been impossible for the Warriors to match without making other moves. Unlikely, perhaps, but that was obviously their concern.

What was the plan if he got that kind of offer, renege on the Horford deal? That seems like a terrible look


Pretty sure they'd still sign Horford. One or two of the other vets they have lined up could get replaced by their second round picks on rookie salaries. Will Richard first, I would think. That would give them enough at that price--of course if it went high enough I would think they just wouldn't match. But that seems very unlikely.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2466 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Sep 28, 2025 9:09 pm

It’s not so much that they might’ve reneged. It’s that they could make other moves to accommodate a large Kuminga offer. But once they hard capped themselves and gave a limit of dollars, they were in serious trouble, as they’d only have the restricted match window to make a move to clear the necessary salary, and any team negotiating with them would know their situation and drive a harder bargain. It made sense to wait.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2467 » by SkyHook » Sun Sep 28, 2025 9:40 pm

"The 39-year-old contemplated retirement, but he instead joins a Warriors team in a situation to contend for a title at the end of his career."

Does anyone really believe this to be the case?

Contend for a playoff spot? Sure.
Contend for home court? Maybe.
Contend for a title? Nonsense.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2468 » by brackdan70 » Sun Sep 28, 2025 11:35 pm

SkyHook wrote:"The 39-year-old contemplated retirement, but he instead joins a Warriors team in a situation to contend for a title at the end of his career."

Does anyone really believe this to be the case?

Contend for a playoff spot? Sure.
Contend for home court? Maybe.
Contend for a title? Nonsense.

Agree. Horford makes them better but I don’t think they get to 50 wins.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2469 » by DoItALL9 » Mon Sep 29, 2025 12:50 am

Sign and trade JK to the Chicago Bulls for Nikola Vucevic (~$21M) & Patrick Williams (~$9M)!

CHI gets big potential.

GSW gets shooting at Center, height, a player who presumably fits their system in Vuc and as player with minimal high potential in Patrick Williams.

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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2470 » by giberish » Mon Sep 29, 2025 1:38 am

DoItALL9 wrote:Sign and trade JK to the Chicago Bulls for Nikola Vucevic (~$21M) & Patrick Williams (~$9M)!

CHI gets big potential.

GSW gets shooting at Center, height, a player who presumably fits their system in Vuc and as player with minimal high potential in Patrick Williams.

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Patrick Williams makes $18M/yr

Even just Vuc himself makes too much for this to work for GS (or Williams himself). JK will have more on-court impact for GS than either one would (need extra big forward more than center depth and Williams just isn't as good).

Overall wildly off and an unfixable concept.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2471 » by DoItALL9 » Mon Sep 29, 2025 3:24 am

giberish wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Sign and trade JK to the Chicago Bulls for Nikola Vucevic (~$21M) & Patrick Williams (~$9M)!

CHI gets big potential.

GSW gets shooting at Center, height, a player who presumably fits their system in Vuc and as player with minimal high potential in Patrick Williams.



Patrick Williams makes $18M/yr

Even just Vuc himself makes too much for this to work for GS (or Williams himself). JK will have more on-court impact for GS than either one would (need extra big forward more than center depth and Williams just isn't as good).

Overall wildly off and an unfixable concept.


I must've misread Williams salary.
Nonetheless, I don't trust that JK will have a positive impact for GSW this season. The whole situation seems toxic like Jimmy Butler in Miami last season.

I don't see Al Horford playing a starter's minutes all season long so Center depth will be important.

Vuc and another player such as Jalen Smith instead of Williams works.

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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2472 » by giberish » Mon Sep 29, 2025 5:18 am

DoItALL9 wrote:
giberish wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Sign and trade JK to the Chicago Bulls for Nikola Vucevic (~$21M) & Patrick Williams (~$9M)!

CHI gets big potential.

GSW gets shooting at Center, height, a player who presumably fits their system in Vuc and as player with minimal high potential in Patrick Williams.



Patrick Williams makes $18M/yr

Even just Vuc himself makes too much for this to work for GS (or Williams himself). JK will have more on-court impact for GS than either one would (need extra big forward more than center depth and Williams just isn't as good).

Overall wildly off and an unfixable concept.


I must've misread Williams salary.
Nonetheless, I don't trust that JK will have a positive impact for GSW this season. The whole situation seems toxic like Jimmy Butler in Miami last season.

I don't see Al Horford playing a starter's minutes all season long so Center depth will be important.

Vuc and another player such as Jalen Smith instead of Williams works.

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Several issues (that have all been hashed out many times before)

1) JK wants to get paid. He can't sulk like a very established vet such as Jimmy. GS and JK need each other so they'll have to work together even if they aren't happy with each other.
2) JK leaving creates a big rotation hole. GS can kind of survive if everyone else is healthy but neither Draymond nor Butler are playing 82 games. His offense creation also becomes necessary if Curry misses games.
3) GS has to be able to spend up to the 2nd apron, so they have to take back less salary then they send out in any deal. JK will be BYC so he'll only count as half his 1st year salary for this. Even just adding Vuc by himself means that GS would have to send out another rotation player that's more valuable and would play more than Vuc.
4) Smith by himself could work from the Warrior side (and would at least be an emergency PF option as well) but would require salary maneuvers on the Chicago end. As the Bulls don't seem that interested in JK they aren't going to make that effort.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2473 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:56 am

SkyHook wrote:"The 39-year-old contemplated retirement, but he instead joins a Warriors team in a situation to contend for a title at the end of his career."

Does anyone really believe this to be the case?

Contend for a playoff spot? Sure.
Contend for home court? Maybe.
Contend for a title? Nonsense.


I think that, if everyone is healthy at playoff time, it’s not hard to see them all will everything. They have, and maybe make a crazy run like Indy did? Steph can still be that guy that just wins you games you shouldn’t otherwise have a chance. As the Pacers just showed, you don’t have to won’t 60 or even have home court advantage to have a real shot at a championship. Just have to make the playoffs and be ready.

I wouldn’t bet on them, but I also wouldn’t bet heavily against them. :dontknow:
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2474 » by HadAnEffectHere » Mon Sep 29, 2025 4:48 pm

Walker Kessler sounds legitimately upset (and his body language is just awful) about not getting an extension so it looks like the Jazz did not have an under the table deal with him.

Why would you have a young guy throw games and then not make him whole, what are we doing here.

How do you watch the Kuminga situation and go "yes, we must copy this exactly except while tanking."

The Jazz threw away all of the excess value of Walker Kessler's rookie contract for like... Literally nothing I guess?
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2475 » by LarsV8 » Mon Sep 29, 2025 5:53 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:Walker Kessler sounds legitimately upset (and his body language is just awful) about not getting an extension so it looks like the Jazz did not have an under the table deal with him.

Why would you have a young guy throw games and then not make him whole, what are we doing here.

How do you watch the Kuminga situation and go "yes, we must copy this exactly except while tanking."

The Jazz threw away all of the excess value of Walker Kessler's rookie contract for like... Literally nothing I guess?


Restricted Free Agency is an underutilized leverage tool that most teams don't use to their advantage.

From an asset management standpoint, due to the moratorium, and matching rights...the best course of action for a team is too:
1.) Not extend
2.) Not make an offer
3.) Let a RFA go to market, in which the player is unlikely to receive a deal outside of MLE.

Due to the moratorium, any potential bidder would have to completely sit out bidding on UFAs, to make the offer sheet to the RFA. The team with matching rights, will then wait the entire three days to match, to punish teams for doing this. There simply is very little incentive for opposing teams to pursue restricted free agents.

Since the Jazz, have the low cap hold, and bird rights, they can and should do exactly what the Jazz are doing to ensure the lowest possible contract.

With the new CBA, the incentive to not overpay is greater than ever. There should be a bit of reckoning when it comes to these non true max players.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2476 » by HadAnEffectHere » Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:10 pm

LarsV8 wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Walker Kessler sounds legitimately upset (and his body language is just awful) about not getting an extension so it looks like the Jazz did not have an under the table deal with him.

Why would you have a young guy throw games and then not make him whole, what are we doing here.

How do you watch the Kuminga situation and go "yes, we must copy this exactly except while tanking."

The Jazz threw away all of the excess value of Walker Kessler's rookie contract for like... Literally nothing I guess?


Restricted Free Agency is an underutilized leverage tool that most teams don't use to their advantage.

From an asset management standpoint, due to the moratorium, and matching rights...the best course of action for a team is too:
1.) Not extend
2.) Not make an offer
3.) Let a RFA go to market, in which the player is unlikely to receive a deal outside of MLE.

Due to the moratorium, any potential bidder would have to completely sit out bidding on UFAs, to make the offer sheet to the RFA. The team with matching rights, will then wait the entire three days to match, to punish teams for doing this. There simply is very little incentive for opposing teams to pursue restricted free agents.

Since the Jazz, have the low cap hold, and bird rights, they can and should do exactly what the Jazz are doing to ensure the lowest possible contract.

With the new CBA, the incentive to not overpay is greater than ever. There should be a bit of reckoning when it comes to these non true max players.


Screwing your young players after asking them to throw games is going to lead to Walker taking the QO and **** them.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2477 » by gswhoops » Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:19 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
SkyHook wrote:"The 39-year-old contemplated retirement, but he instead joins a Warriors team in a situation to contend for a title at the end of his career."

Does anyone really believe this to be the case?

Contend for a playoff spot? Sure.
Contend for home court? Maybe.
Contend for a title? Nonsense.


I think that, if everyone is healthy at playoff time, it’s not hard to see them all will everything. They have, and maybe make a crazy run like Indy did? Steph can still be that guy that just wins you games you shouldn’t otherwise have a chance. As the Pacers just showed, you don’t have to won’t 60 or even have home court advantage to have a real shot at a championship. Just have to make the playoffs and be ready.

I wouldn’t bet on them, but I also wouldn’t bet heavily against them. :dontknow:

I think this is the theory of the case. Get to the playoffs with a decent seed and Steph/Jimmy/Draymond healthy and then anything can happen.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2478 » by SkyHook » Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:21 pm

LarsV8 wrote:Restricted Free Agency is an underutilized leverage tool that most teams don't use to their advantage.

From an asset management standpoint, due to the moratorium, and matching rights...the best course of action for a team is too:
1.) Not extend
2.) Not make an offer
3.) Let a RFA go to market, in which the player is unlikely to receive a deal outside of MLE.

Due to the moratorium, any potential bidder would have to completely sit out bidding on UFAs, to make the offer sheet to the RFA. The team with matching rights, will then wait the entire three days to match, to punish teams for doing this. There simply is very little incentive for opposing teams to pursue restricted free agents.

Since the Jazz, have the low cap hold, and bird rights, they can and should do exactly what the Jazz are doing to ensure the lowest possible contract.

With the new CBA, the incentive to not overpay is greater than ever. There should be a bit of reckoning when it comes to these non true max players.

I don't blame Kessler for being disappointed, but for multiple reasons I think this was absolutely the right call for the Jazz. Time will tell if that turns out to be true.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2479 » by HadAnEffectHere » Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:23 pm

The right call was just to trade him last deadline to the Lakers, lol. We're going to waste at least 2.5 years of his career (including the 1.5 years of him at obscene excess value) and end up getting almost no value in return while burning every bridge.

He's a horrendous fit with Hardy's defensive scheme so there's no real future for him on the team anyway after Hardy got that absurd extension. Literally the only thing he can do is elite shot blocking and Hardy's scheme sells out to avoid defenders getting to the paint.

Was the right call for the Warriors to keep Kuminga even though he was an abysmal fit with Kerr? No, it clearly wasn't, they're going to get nothing in return for him when they could have gotten a decent bit in the past.
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Re: Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole 

Post#2480 » by HadAnEffectHere » Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:42 pm

Again, Hardy's scheme just does not make any sense for Kessler and Hardy wants Kessler to be a guy he cannot be.

"“Walker has a great shot blocking mentality, but I need, and we need, his overall defensive nature to improve. It’s not about being a great shot blocker, it’s about being a great defensive player, and those two things can be different,” Hardy said. “I think Walker has shown signs of being an elite defender in our league, but it needs to take a step up, and the perimeter players need to get on board with that.”"

Literally all he is good at are shot blocking and rebounding where he's elite! He's bad at everything else! He has no upside outside of those two areas. What are you smoking. Change your scheme or trade him.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2025/09/29/jazzs-walker-kessler-frustrated-by/

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