Higher all time. Westbrook or Irving?

[og15]

Resumes are overrated.

I'd take Joe Dumars over both Harden and Westbrook, and Dumars' resume pales in comparison.

I chose Irving over Westbrook because, as long as Irving doesn't have to play PG, he is easier to build around, and I trust him way more down the stretch.

Sure, Westbrook's resume is substantially better, but so what. In one game, to save the planet, Irving is an easy decision for me.

The vast majority of the time, I'm taking Kyrie as the co-star to my star player, pretty easily tbh, but the OP did ask All-Time, and therefore, we have to go on resume.

You could have won a championship with MVP Westbrook if the team around him wasn't such trash. Kyrie has never been a credible #1 option although he's one of the greatest star complementary options of all time

I chose Westbrook here as the career just wins out, but I have to disagree about the could have won a championship. The basketball Westbrook was playing that season is not even the type of basketball that wins championships, and that's not his fault, just the reality that it is the type of basketball one plays on less scoring talented teams.

It would be very tough to win with Westbrook as your best player. He's just not reliable enough in the post-season and prone to too much volatility. If Westbrook had a better team in that MVP season, he would likely not win MVP and his numbers would have been different.

The next season, Westbrook got more talent with Paul George and they won 48 games and had a first round exit vs the Jazz while having HCA. PG has his faults, but you can't claim to be a lead championship player and only go to the first round with a guy like that vs an opponent like that. They didn't have a championship team, but that should not have been a first round team against that opponent if we are giving Westbrook championship #1 props.

Westbrook is not that guy, and his career very well supports that.

[ImmortalD24]

Agreed. Similarly, give me Chauncey Billups over Steve Nash. Btw Billups had a stronger case for MVP leading the Pistons to the best record in the NBA in 06. But it didn’t fit the narrative to regain suburban America.

But imagine if Nash played for that Pistons team, they'd have the defense to cover for Nash's weakness, and he'd make their offense better, so i like Nash with the Pistons more.

Billups was clutch obviously, but Nash played his best basketball in the playoffs too, including some huge scoring games including 48, 39 and 34 in 2005 to eliminate Dallas.

But that's a different case to Kyrie-Westbrook, because i don't think Westbrook was ever as reliable as Kyrie in the playoffs.
I'd go with Kyrie if i was trying to win a championship...

And i think if Durant had Kyrie in OKC they'd have won the championship, or at least come closer to winning it.

Youd get laughed at by any respected member of that Pistons squad. Matter of fact no one in the NBA would say such a thing. Billups is the heart and soul of that team and his defense was exceptional. Nash could not be hidden and would make that team much Worse. Just from a confidence perspective alone Pistons would be in worse shape. Nash’s style of basketball will get you some wins no question, but when the going gets tough it’s not conducive to championship basketball.

Also Billups would be a much better fit along an elite Wing ie: Kobe, Melo, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi etc.. only suburban American NBA 2K fans would choose Nash over him.

Billups among his peers.. is highly respected. Unreal level of confidence, grit, determination.. men amongst men.



Give me Billups over Nash on any championship calibre team. You cannot convince me otherwise. There’d be a riot (and rightfully so) if Detroit traded Billups in 05 (just when Nash got his second wind) for Nash.

[JRoy]

Not a fan of either guy but RW has been better for longer.

[bonita_the_frog]

I agree Russell Westbrook will forever be the better player than Kyrie Irving, i acknowledge that 1000%, but i'd rather have Kyrie Irving in my playoff roster.

[Capn'O]

I think the only argument for Kyrie is that his shooting ability lent well to being a complementary player to LeBron.

[bstein14]

I'd take TMac, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller and Gary Payton over both of them.

I know Westbrook had some great stats but never really efficient and a low IQ player IMO.

[ImmortalD24]

Agreed. Similarly, give me Chauncey Billups over Steve Nash. Btw Billups had a stronger case for MVP leading the Pistons to the best record in the NBA in 06. But it didn’t fit the narrative to regain suburban America.

But imagine if Nash played for that Pistons team, they'd have the defense to cover for Nash's weakness, and he'd make their offense better, so i like Nash with the Pistons more.

Billups was clutch obviously, but Nash played his best basketball in the playoffs too, including some huge scoring games including 48, 39 and 34 in 2005 to eliminate Dallas.

But that's a different case to Kyrie-Westbrook, because i don't think Westbrook was ever as reliable as Kyrie in the playoffs.
I'd go with Kyrie if i was trying to win a championship...

And i think if Durant had Kyrie in OKC they'd have won the championship, or at least come closer to winning it.

Youd get laughed at by any respected member of that Pistons squad. Matter of fact no one in the NBA would say such a thing. Billups is the heart and soul of that team and his defense was exceptional. Nash could not be hidden and would make that team much Worse. Just from a confidence perspective alone Pistons would be in worse shape. Nash’s style of basketball will get you some wins no question, but when the going gets tough it’s not conducive to championship basketball.

Also Billups would be a much better fit along an elite Wing ie: Kobe, Melo, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi etc.. only suburban American NBA 2K fans would choose Nash over him.

Billups among his peers.. is highly respected. Unreal level of confidence, grit, determination.. men amongst men.



Give me Billups over Nash on any championship calibre team. You cannot convince me otherwise. There’d be a riot (and rightfully so) if Detroit traded Billups in 05 (just when Nash got his second wind) for Nash.

In addition..Dudes like Ben Wallace are reluctant to say Melo would’ve guaranteed more success for their team had they selected him #2 in the 2004 draft (instead for Darko).. let that sink in:

Watch on YouTube

At the 7min mark. Pistons were a Robert Horry clutch play away from going back to back. Tim Duncan shat the bed that series.

BTW this is what being a real teammate is all about. Riding for your dogs unlike what Shaq is doing with the Tracy McGrady and others comments. Shaq was never a good leader and was always childish and burned bridges everywhere he went.. Magic to Lakers to Heat to Suns etc.. great player, awful teammate.

One of my favorite plays in NBA history:

Watch on YouTube

Btw Ben Wallace all day everyday over Draymond Green.

[Rodwilliams]

Seems like the redditors took over this forum based on the fact Westbrook is leading this poll.

The answer is Kyrie Irving and it isn’t even closer. Better shooter, better playoff performer, better leader and a champion. Westbrook leads his team nowhere in the playoffs. Kyrie was just in the Finals 2 seasons ago. Kyrie gets so much hate on this forum that they ranking players above him that’s nowhere near the same class as him. A low IQ player like Westbrook lol

[ropjhk]

Voted Westbrook. He did a better job of carrying a team as its best player. He never completely derailed a season with off court drama. You can argue Kyrie is a better sidekick, but overall I'm taking Westbrook.

[bonita_the_frog]

I think the only argument for Kyrie is that his shooting ability lent well to being a complementary player to LeBron.

Plus Kyrie didn't play out-of-control, whereas Westbrook played out-of-control which can cost you in the playoffs.
Kyrie plays smarter and he's clutch.
I can't think of a reason to choose Westbrook over Kyrie for the playoffs.
Plus heard a stat Westbrook contested less shots than any player in the NBA with 30+minutes per game in 2016-17.

[KirkHinrich12]

Kyrie by a landslide if you are talking about both skill and winning. If you want bricks, losing basketball, hero ball, refusal to defer to all time great KD - then you’d select Westbrook.

[mdonnelly1989]

Westbrook was MVP. Was Kyrie ever a top 10 player in the league?

Never

[Johnny Bball]

Think its a whole lot easier to build a winning team starting with Kyrie than Westbrook.

[TwitterFingers]

Westbrook by a country mile

[f4p]

I think the only argument for Kyrie is that his shooting ability lent well to being a complementary player to LeBron.

Plus Kyrie didn't play out-of-control, whereas Westbrook played out-of-control which can cost you in the playoffs.
Kyrie plays smarter and he's clutch.
I can't think of a reason to choose Westbrook over Kyrie for the playoffs.

Insane rim pressure and creation. Y'all are too focused on 2018+ Westbrook. He was a terror in the early 2010s. You couldn't stay in front of him and he could hit 85% of his ft's and he was getting to the line like 9-10 times per game. Plus impact stats I believe tend to really like 2010s Westbrook. Kyrie did nothing for 10 years that didn't involve LeBron, cratered several teams with his personality, the Celtics were better without him, and his playoff numbers sucked in 2024 when he made the the finals with Luka and the best defense in the playoffs.

[f4p]

Think its a whole lot easier to build a winning team starting with Kyrie than Westbrook.

I mean neither is likely to be #1 on a title team, but Westbrook is way way more likely. There's a world where Westbrook with some team shooting and defense is getting you to the WCF. No way with Kyrie. His shooting fit with peak playoffs LeBron but just being a better shooter for one situation doesn't make you better overall.

[Capn'O]

I think the only argument for Kyrie is that his shooting ability lent well to being a complementary player to LeBron.

Plus Kyrie didn't play out-of-control, whereas Westbrook played out-of-control which can cost you in the playoffs.
Kyrie plays smarter and he's clutch.
I can't think of a reason to choose Westbrook over Kyrie for the playoffs.

Insane rim pressure and creation. Y'all are too focused on 2018+ Westbrook. He was a terror in the early 2010s. You couldn't stay in front of him and he could hit 85% of his ft's and he was getting to the line like 9-10 times per game. Plus impact stats I believe tend to really like 2010s Westbrook. Kyrie did nothing for 10 years that didn't involve LeBron, cratered several teams with his personality, the Celtics were better without him, and his playoff numbers sucked in 2024 when he made the the finals with Luka and the best defense in the playoffs.

For the record, I voted for Westbrook and by a country mile. I was simply stating the counter argument that Kyrie has some advantages as a complementary player. Westbrook is a full meal.

[xinxin]

I have Westbrook higher in the all-time rankings for his overall body of work.

I have Kyrie though for best handles and if the game was on the line, I'd give him the ball over WB.

[JN61]

If Kyrie showed up for work more consistently I’d probably take him. Efficiency is a big thing for me.

I think Russell’s MVP campaign is overrated and that he should not have won it but it’s still hard to argue with his body of work over Kyrie, who throughout his prime just had a hard time playing a complete season.

At this point that might be the most underrated player season of 2010s with all the weirdo fan commentary surrounding it.

[JonFromVA]

I think the only argument for Kyrie is that his shooting ability lent well to being a complementary player to LeBron.

Plus Kyrie didn't play out-of-control, whereas Westbrook played out-of-control which can cost you in the playoffs.
Kyrie plays smarter and he's clutch.
I can't think of a reason to choose Westbrook over Kyrie for the playoffs.
Plus heard a stat Westbrook contested less shots than any player in the NBA with 30+minutes per game in 2016-17.

This is never talked about because of the result, but Kyrie almost threw away the 2016 championship after making what nobody realized at the time would turn out to be the game winning shot.

Kyrie got the ball with 31 seconds remaining and tried to drive the floor and score on Iggy but lost the ball. He quickly recovered it and got it to Love who got it to James who was fouled; but just like with Kobe - people rarely talk about when Kyrie's overconfidence causes him to try difficult shots that DO NOT go in.

Because of his play style Kyrie has to be at his best scoring wise to make a difference on the floor but he simply isn't that consistent even playing with a #1 who draws most of the defensive attention like a LeBron or a Luka.

In addition Kyrie was not particularly clutch according to the "clutch time" stat this past season, so, we always need to be careful sifting through reputation and reality.

Westbrook's flaws are numerous and he also suffers even more from overconfidence, but he does spray the ball and create easy shots for teammates far more than Irving and that's big when looking at team performance. And at least Westbrook has the frame to play defense, Irving has rarely showed the attention span and interest to play defense since early in his career when Byron Scott got him injured insisting he fight through screens like it was still the '90's.