Game 4: Packers at Cowboys - 9/28/25 - 7:20 - NBC

[Kerb Hohl]

It's a delicate game down the stretch - I understand that running it down too far (I was yelling over the final 40 seconds or so) made it tougher to run competent plays and gave the defense a better chance to play all of their guys in the endzone...

However...we saw that they didn't score on the plays they did try and (thankfully) didn't run out of time and ran the maximum number of plays.

Did you guys want to get walked off by Aubrey after a long Turpin return? That's what you're asking for if you think they should have hurried up considerably.

[jakecronus8]

Love was great. His stock is up on the "Is he the guy" market.

Lafleur's however has gone off the page. The mere site of him at this point is nauseating and makes me want to take a break from this team.

He is reactive when he needs to be proactive and vice versa. Aggressive when he should be conservative and vice versa. Emotional when he needs to be collected and aloof when the team needs an emotional lift.

I've said it countless times before, but for all of his knowledge and creativity he simply has no feel for coaching in the moment. You can't win a championship when you play to not lose.

I think with the right coach, Love can be good enough to win a championship. I whole heartedly do not believe Little Matt is the right coach.

[Siefer]

Stray thoughts.

It looked like we played vanilla on defense and expected to just be better. When the 4 man rush didn't get there, the secondary got picked on.

I'm still bewildered by Nixon giving up on that 45 yard pass in OT. I think he figured it was just going to be very out of bounds, but you can't do that.

The line of scrimmage on offense and ST cost us a win for the second straight week, but I'm hopefully two weeks off will get us healthy enough to function again.

Love was really good overall, but he's regularly been too slow in hurry-up mode.

MLF is a good coach who seems to buckle under duress. It often leads to these default chicken **** play calls (I hated our first punt of the game), punctuated by him losing his mind and getting aggressive at exactly the wrong time, as if he's still boxing with the shadows of the 2020 NFC championship game.

Case in point, it's insane that we didn't take multiple focused shots at the end zone there. I'm not excusing the nearly botched 3rd down play at the end, but Love was killing it, and MLF didn't have anything going into the end zone!

[RookieOfTheYear]

Love basically led multiple game winning/tieing drives. Idk what more you want

I just meant he doesn’t have the “it” factor to actually pull through and win these games. Yes he did a lot well but not enough to win. I know a lot isn’t on him but he doesn’t instill confidence that we can win these type of close games come playoff time. Maybe it’s more on lafleur I’m not sure, but something is missing.

Completely disagree. Dude he played a great game with a makeshift OL, came out with scoring drives everytime we needed them. So far this season he's one of the best QBs in the NFL. I think Favre and Rodgers broke people's brains making them unable to appreciate JLove's game. Don't want to sound mean but man a lot of fans are spoiled and ungrateful. But hey it's your opinion and that's how you feel, gotta respect that.

That’s fine to disagree. I’m just saying he’s not the general on the field in complete control of his offense. And agree Favre and Rodgers have spoiled us to a degree but I have even higher standards for our quarterbacks. I’m expecting even better, think Brady, Mahomes, etc. maybe even hurts to a degree. I know it’s unrealistic but that’s what it takes to win multiple superbowls/ at least have competent two minute offenses. They just always seemed to make the right decision.

I think it falls both on Love but clearly Lafleur as well. They need to practice the living hell out of the two minute offense and maybe even have like a session of oral boards for surgeons where lafleur drills love on every scenario what to do til he knows with his eyes closed

[BUCKnation]

To be clear I don't want to fire MLF or anything. However it does occur to me that while we all scoff at Dan Campbell as the lions go for it on 4th down for the 47th time every game, there has to be a happy medium between that and our method of being so afraid of losing that often we're not giving ourselves the most opportunities to win.

One big difference between the mentalities is that the Lions are always wanting to win by as much as possible. I don't think it really backfires on them too often aggressively trying to turn a 2 score game into a 3 score game. They play like having the top point differential will give them an extra win.

I get trusting the defense with how they've been all year, but we had a couple of opportunities to really open it up with 4th and 5 from their ~45 and punted. I won't hammer him too much for that in this particular game, but it's been a problem for so long. I was kind of hoping the opposite would happen where the defense would be good enough to trust that MLF could get even more aggressive.

[jakecronus8]

To be clear I don't want to fire MLF or anything. However it does occur to me that while we all scoff at Dan Campbell as the lions go for it on 4th down for the 47th time every game, there has to be a happy medium between that and our method of being so afraid of losing that often we're not giving ourselves the most opportunities to win.

One big difference between the mentalities is that the Lions are always wanting to win by as much as possible. I don't think it really backfires on them too often aggressively trying to turn a 2 score game into a 3 score game.

I get trusting the defense with how they've been all year, but we had a couple of opportunities to really open it up with 4th and 5 from their ~45 and punted. I won't hammer him too much for that in this particular game, but it's been a problem for so long. I was kind of hoping the opposite would happen where the defense would be good enough to trust that MLF could get even more aggressive.

I think I said it last week too, but it pains me to admit that a guy like Campbell with Lafleur and Hafley as his coordinator's would be perfect for this team.

[nagawicka]

Romeo Doubs
6 58 9.667 18 3
3 TDs AND that clutch CLUTCH 3rd down at the end

[Kerb Hohl]

Last week's game stands alone to me in how a team should be aggressive with a lead or not.

The Browns game was one I'd treat differently. I was mad that the Packers threw a single pass in the 4th quarter outside of maybe a rollout where the ball would travel 4 yards in the air. They squandered like 5 chances to run an extra minute off the clock and they gave the Browns a 5 yard field to tie the game. If you just took knees and punted from late in the 3Q and on, the Browns would not have been able to drive fast enough to come back. Call up Kirk Ferentz for how to put that game away.

Any almost other team - yeah, I'm fine trying to run up the score. Dak may not have looked great in the first quarter, but you know that he and most other NFL QBs have it in them to make a quick comeback.

[JCP11]

I just meant he doesn’t have the “it” factor to actually pull through and win these games. Yes he did a lot well but not enough to win. I know a lot isn’t on him but he doesn’t instill confidence that we can win these type of close games come playoff time. Maybe it’s more on lafleur I’m not sure, but something is missing.

Completely disagree. Dude he played a great game with a makeshift OL, came out with scoring drives everytime we needed them. So far this season he's one of the best QBs in the NFL. I think Favre and Rodgers broke people's brains making them unable to appreciate JLove's game. Don't want to sound mean but man a lot of fans are spoiled and ungrateful. But hey it's your opinion and that's how you feel, gotta respect that.

That’s fine to disagree. I’m just saying he’s not the general on the field in complete control of his offense. And agree Favre and Rodgers have spoiled us to a degree but I have even higher standards for our quarterbacks. I’m expecting even better, think Brady, Mahomes, etc. maybe even hurts to a degree. I know it’s unrealistic but that’s what it takes to win multiple superbowls/ at least have competent two minute offenses. They just always seemed to make the right decision.

I think it falls both on Love but clearly Lafleur as well. They need to practice the living hell out of the two minute offense and maybe even have like a session of oral boards for surgeons where lafleur drills love on every scenario what to do til he knows with his eyes closed

I actually think he's becoming that general on the field. The way that he started the season if he keeps it up he'll an MVP candidate. I don't think people appreciate how good JLove is because we've had 2 HOF back to back. Players don't progress the same and JLove has his own path. I can see the growth from the first two seasons and he's on his way to be great. We can't compare him to Rodgers because he's not like him. He's totally different QB. We've seen the stats, the stats are similar at the same point of their careers. Don't forget Love has like 35 starts under his belt, that's not a lot, there's a lot of room to grow still.

[MVP2110]

Brian Schottenheimer ate Jeff Hafley's lunch last night. I didn't see that coming and that's the #1 reason we didn't win imo. Bisaccia's unit continues to be a disaster(between him & Fickell I've learned that the big name isnt always the correct hire) & MLF's clock management didn't help either.

On the bright side Jordan Love was awesome last night, 3 separate times he drove us to either tie or take the lead late. Remember when some said they couldn't trust him to do that?

[JCP11]

To be clear I don't want to fire MLF or anything. However it does occur to me that while we all scoff at Dan Campbell as the lions go for it on 4th down for the 47th time every game, there has to be a happy medium between that and our method of being so afraid of losing that often we're not giving ourselves the most opportunities to win.

One big difference between the mentalities is that the Lions are always wanting to win by as much as possible. I don't think it really backfires on them too often aggressively trying to turn a 2 score game into a 3 score game. They play like having the top point differential will give them an extra win.

I get trusting the defense with how they've been all year, but we had a couple of opportunities to really open it up with 4th and 5 from their ~45 and punted. I won't hammer him too much for that in this particular game, but it's been a problem for so long. I was kind of hoping the opposite would happen where the defense would be good enough to trust that MLF could get even more aggressive.

I totally respect Campbell's mentality. In this league if you want to win you have to take it rather than managing. You don't apologize for being aggressive, that's how you play every game and you should never let your opponent breathe, you keep your foot on their throats. Matt is not like that and it's hurting the team.

[MKE_Hodag22]

ST Coach needs to go - for what he's paid, our ST should be 10x better

[Ron Swanson]

The more I hear about the "Shanahan and MLF were both apart of the 28-3 SB choke job and it's caused them to play conservative ever since" theory, the more I believe it. Also, are we sure that Josh Jacobs hasn't already lost a step? The O-line hasn't been great, but Wilson looked so much better running between the tackles by the end of the game and it didn't seem like a coincidence. I didn't think it wise to continue giving Josh such a massive workload even before the struggles (leads the league in carries through 4-games). Other thoughts:

- This was the worry with the secondary when our pass rush stopped being dominant for any stretch, and sure enough, they got absolutely torched by an unspectacular group minus their best play-maker (Lamb). Nixon had the one great PBU but was invisible otherwise. Vallentine got roasted all game. Hobbs wasn't great but at least he has the injury excuse.

- Hafley definitely deserves blame for a vanilla gameplan as well. Very uncharacteristic performance. Zero creativity and disguising when they weren't getting pressure rushing four. Seemed content to just keep everything in front of them.

- Do we need to call Musgrave a bust at this point? Only one target (caught it for 6-yards) while making another inexcusable blocking mistake on the kick team. If dude's gonna be a non-factor on offense then you may as well just give Fitzpatrick all his snaps, because what's the point of trotting him out there if he can't consistently block?

[MVP2110]

The more I hear about the "Shanahan and MLF were both apart of the 28-3 SB choke job and it's caused them to play conservative ever since" theory, the more I believe it. Also, are we sure that Josh Jacobs hasn't already lost a step? The O-line hasn't been great, but Wilson looked so much better running between the tackles by the end of the game and it didn't seem like a coincidence. I didn't think it wise to continue giving Josh such a massive workload even before the struggles (leads the league in carries through 4-games). Other thoughts:

- This was the worry with the secondary when our pass rush stopped being dominant for any stretch, and sure enough, they got absolutely torched by an unspectacular group minus their best play-maker (Lamb). Nixon had the one great PBU but was invisible otherwise. Vallentine got roasted all game. Hobbs wasn't great but at least he has the injury excuse.

- Hafley definitely deserves blame for a vanilla gameplan as well. Very uncharacteristic performance. Zero creativity and disguising when they weren't getting pressure rushing four. Seemed content to just keep everything in front of them.

- Do we need to call Musgrave a bust at this point? Only one target (caught it for 6-yards) while making another inexcusable blocking mistake on the kick team. If dude's gonna be a non-factor on offense then you may as well just give Fitzpatrick all his snaps, because what's the point of trotting him out there if he can't consistently block?

I think this is certainly part of it. Also worth noting that MLF was under Mcvay who is also notoriously conservative too. That whole coaching tree seems to be very conservative

[BUCKnation]

The more I hear about the "Shanahan and MLF were both apart of the 28-3 SB choke job and it's caused them to play conservative ever since" theory, the more I believe it. Also, are we sure that Josh Jacobs hasn't already lost a step? The O-line hasn't been great, but Wilson looked so much better running between the tackles by the end of the game and it didn't seem like a coincidence. I didn't think it wise to continue giving Josh such a massive workload even before the struggles (leads the league in carries through 4-games). Other thoughts:

I do like how Wilson has looked this season, he plays fast, but he was also getting carries at a time when Jacobs was cooking too. I agree though, we need to get him more involved to ease the workload.

[Frank Nova]

At this rate through the 1st quarter of the season, my main takeaway is we better get home field throughout the playoffs or there’s no chance of a Lombardi.

[Siefer]

Nixon had the one great PBU but was invisible otherwise.

Nixon's OT **** up was inexcusable, but invisible is often a feather in the cap of a CB. They were trying to keep Pickens away from him and barely threw in his direction.

[Ron Swanson]

The whole "you can't win a Super Bowl with MLF or with Love as your QB" stuff is nonsense. This team is talented enough and can be dominant enough as we saw the first two weeks, to go on a 2015 Broncos type SB run where you don't even need elite level QB play. What we can't have is garbage level special teams constantly giving up great field position and actively taking points off the board, if that's indeed the way we're gonna have to win some of these playoff games. The margins stuff (turnovers, penalties, and ST play) is absolutely killing us and is pretty much the sole reason we're not 4-0 right now. That has to get cleaned up.

[MVP2110]

PFF grades from last night(min 10 snaps), woof at Nazir Stackhouse

Offense

Best
1. Josh Jacobs 81.8
2. Jordan Love 78.6
3. Darian Kinnard 74.8
4. Malik Heath 71.3
5. Tucker Kraft 68

Worst
1. Luke Musgrave 45.7
2. Sean Rhyan 46.2
3. Dontayvion Wicks 47.4
4. John Fitzpatrick 49.4
5. Savion Williams 56.5


Defense

Best
1. Micah Parsons 94.2
2. Isaiah Mcduffie 79.5
3. Edge Cooper 77.5
4. Rashan Gary 71.4
5. Devonte Wyatt 70.3

Worst
1. Nazir Stackhouse 30.1
2. Quay Walker 45.5
3. Carrington Valentine 45.6
4. Colby Wooden 46.3
5. JJ Enagbare 56.8

[Matches Malone]

Walker and Rhyan playing for second contracts need to pick it up. Them along with Jenkins needed to be the sturdy vets on the line and have been dreadful. Won't be shocked if this is their last year in GB.

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