Pablo Torre: Kawhi/Clippers/Ballmer/Aspiration Thread (part 2)

[EmpireFalls]

Kawhi better not escape punishment either is all I can say. He can hide behind Uncle Dennis all he wants, he’s clearly in the wrong too. I hope he gets a longterm suspension and has to donate his entire salary to charity.

His greed, shameless and unceasing, is at the root of this entire case. It all centers around greed and excess. The entire thing makes me sick.

[brutalitops]

Kawhi better not escape punishment either is all I can say. He can hide behind Uncle Dennis all he wants, he’s clearly in the wrong too. I hope he gets a longterm suspension and has to donate his entire salary to charity.

His greed, shameless and unceasing, is at the root of this entire case. It all centers around greed and excess. The entire thing makes me sick.

No way! Ballmers a victim! He was even being forced to donate the amount kawhi was owed for his endosement to the owners charity even after he found out he was defrauded every 3 months!

[walk with me]

To summarize:
1. The options Kawhi got, were guaranteed put options.
2. It wasn't just uncle Dennis, who is being portrayed as the only villain, Leonard's official agent was making payment demands to Aspiration.
3. After Joe Sandberg, the man Ballmer claims defrauded him, was indicted, late in 2024, Ballmer made a donation to Sandberg's charity.
And all of it is documented and available for the NBA and Wachtal Lipton to see, I'm also extremely happy that Shelbourne and Windhorst, displayed in this video, are being exposed for who they actually are, hired pens and hack writers acting as PR for Steve Ballmer.

Devils advocate

1. Put Options: good negotiating tactics from kawhis agent (his only client iirc). Why take a deal on stock that may not hit? It doesn’t guarantee circumvention. Also why would you need a guaranteed contract if you already have a guarantee from ballmer? If the aspiration deal falls through ballmer would owe you the $$$ anyway.
2. Mitch Frankel - Kawhi is his only client so ofc he’d be aggressive about $$$. Also if this was an under the table deal AGREED TO BY BALLMER - why would frankel need to chase aspiration around?
3. Charity donation: Bad optic's for sure but how does this even connect back to Kawhi? Seems more like negicliance from Ballmers team than anything else
4. Shelborne/Windhorst claims: what does shelborne or windhorst have to do with what Lipton, Rosen, and Katz are doing? Ultimately they’re the only people who matter in determining fraud. Not nba media members. Besides Shelborne & Windhorst are doing EXACTLY what Pablo is but from the other side lol. Circumstantial evidence and “sources”. Ultimately NOBODY knows the truth except for Ballmer, Samberg, Frankel/Uncle Dennis. Lipton, Rosen, Katz are there to get the truth out of them.

I’ve always been on the side of needing hard evidence and waiting to see what comes out of the NBA firms investigation but Pablo is coming off like a desperate redditor now.

Hes keeps regurgitating old information sprinkled with new color to try to force the nba into a position of punishing the clippers based on circumstantial evidence. This way if the clippers get off without punishment he can still retain fans after being proven wrong.

It’s poor journalism though - the reality is silver will punish the clippers based on the findings of the firm and desire of the owners based on the findings, not the vague language of the CBA.

[1993Playoffs]

To summarize:
1. The options Kawhi got, were guaranteed put options.
2. It wasn't just uncle Dennis, who is being portrayed as the only villain, Leonard's official agent was making payment demands to Aspiration.
3. After Joe Sandberg, the man Ballmer claims defrauded him, was indicted, late in 2024, Ballmer made a donation to Sandberg's charity.
And all of it is documented and available for the NBA and Wachtal Lipton to see, I'm also extremely happy that Shelbourne and Windhorst, displayed in this video, are being exposed for who they actually are, hired pens and hack writers acting as PR for Steve Ballmer.

Devils advocate

1. Put Options: good negotiating tactics from kawhis agent (his only client iirc). Why take a deal on stock that may not hit? It doesn’t guarantee circumvention. Also why would you need a guaranteed contract if you already have a guarantee from ballmer? If the aspiration deal falls through ballmer would owe you the $$$ anyway.
2. Mitch Frankel - Kawhi is his only client so ofc he’d be aggressive about $$$. Also if this was an under the table deal AGREED TO BY BALLMER - why would frankel need to chase aspiration around?
3. Charity donation: Bad optic's for sure but how does this even connect back to Kawhi? Seems more like negicliance from Ballmers team than anything else
4. Shelborne/Windhorst claims: what does shelborne or windhorst have to do with what Lipton, Rosen, and Katz are doing? Ultimately they’re the only people who matter in determining fraud. Not nba media members. Besides Shelborne & Windhorst are doing EXACTLY what Pablo is but from the other side lol. Circumstantial evidence and “sources”. Ultimately NOBODY knows the truth except for Ballmer, Samberg, Frankel/Uncle Dennis. Lipton, Rosen, Katz are there to get the truth out of them.

I’ve always been on the side of needing hard evidence and waiting to see what comes out of the NBA firms investigation but Pablo is coming off like a desperate redditor now.

Hes keeps regurgitating old information sprinkled with new color to try to force the nba into a position of punishing the clippers based on circumstantial evidence. This way if the clippers get off without punishment he can still retain fans after being proven wrong.

It’s poor journalism though - the reality is silver will punish the clippers based on the findings and desire of the owners based on the findings, not the vague language of the CBA.

One of the worst post I’ve read yet. It’s like you didn’t watch any of the 5 episodes

[walk with me]

To summarize:
1. The options Kawhi got, were guaranteed put options.
2. It wasn't just uncle Dennis, who is being portrayed as the only villain, Leonard's official agent was making payment demands to Aspiration.
3. After Joe Sandberg, the man Ballmer claims defrauded him, was indicted, late in 2024, Ballmer made a donation to Sandberg's charity.
And all of it is documented and available for the NBA and Wachtal Lipton to see, I'm also extremely happy that Shelbourne and Windhorst, displayed in this video, are being exposed for who they actually are, hired pens and hack writers acting as PR for Steve Ballmer.

Devils advocate

1. Put Options: good negotiating tactics from kawhis agent (his only client iirc). Why take a deal on stock that may not hit? It doesn’t guarantee circumvention. Also why would you need a guaranteed contract if you already have a guarantee from ballmer? If the aspiration deal falls through ballmer would owe you the $$$ anyway.
2. Mitch Frankel - Kawhi is his only client so ofc he’d be aggressive about $$$. Also if this was an under the table deal AGREED TO BY BALLMER - why would frankel need to chase aspiration around?
3. Charity donation: Bad optic's for sure but how does this even connect back to Kawhi? Seems more like negicliance from Ballmers team than anything else
4. Shelborne/Windhorst claims: what does shelborne or windhorst have to do with what Lipton, Rosen, and Katz are doing? Ultimately they’re the only people who matter in determining fraud. Not nba media members. Besides Shelborne & Windhorst are doing EXACTLY what Pablo is but from the other side lol. Circumstantial evidence and “sources”. Ultimately NOBODY knows the truth except for Ballmer, Samberg, Frankel/Uncle Dennis. Lipton, Rosen, Katz are there to get the truth out of them.

I’ve always been on the side of needing hard evidence and waiting to see what comes out of the NBA firms investigation but Pablo is coming off like a desperate redditor now.

Hes keeps regurgitating old information sprinkled with new color to try to force the nba into a position of punishing the clippers based on circumstantial evidence. This way if the clippers get off without punishment he can still retain fans after being proven wrong.

It’s poor journalism though - the reality is silver will punish the clippers based on the findings and desire of the owners based on the findings, not the vague language of the CBA.

One of the worst post I’ve read yet. It’s like you didn’t watch any of the 5 episodes

I’m responding to the post. Not the video

Edit: feel free to debunk my post tho

[Mavrelous]

Devils advocate

1. Put Options: good negotiating tactics from kawhis agent (his only client iirc). Why take a deal on stock that may not hit? It doesn’t guarantee circumvention. Also why would you need a guaranteed contract if you already have a guarantee from ballmer? If the aspiration deal falls through ballmer would owe you the $$$ anyway.

It's just higher guarantee than regular stock options, the reason for this is the push back inside the company about Kawhi's deal, Sandberg had to guarantee it from his own stash rather than the company funds.
This was brought by Pablo to show that the people inside the company didn't approve of Kawhi's deal and Sandberg had to do manuevers to guarantee his pay.

2. Mitch Frankel - Kawhi is his only client so ofc he’d be aggressive about $$$. Also if this was an under the table deal AGREED TO BY BALLMER - why would frankel need to chase aspiration around?

This was brought to light to counter the claim that uncle Dennis is the culprit and the approved NBA channels had nothing to do with it, Frankel is Kawhi's NBA representative.

3. Charity donation: Bad optic's for sure but how does this even connect back to Kawhi? Seems more like negicliance from Ballmers team than anything else

This nullifies any validity to Ballmer's claim that he was dealing with a fraudster and that he was the victim, the last thing you do is to donate money to a fraudster after he defrauded you.

4. Shelborne/Windhorst claims: what does shelborne or windhorst have to do with what Lipton, Rosen, and Katz are doing? Ultimately they’re the only people who matter in determining fraud. Not nba media members. Besides Shelborne & Windhorst are doing EXACTLY what Pablo is but from the other side lol. Circumstantial evidence and “sources”. Ultimately NOBODY knows the truth except for Ballmer, Samberg, Frankel/Uncle Dennis. Lipton, Rosen, Katz are there to get the truth out of them.

They have nothing to do with the lawyers, that wasn't my point, they are supposed to be investigative reporters, and report on the subject, not in defense of a party, instead, Shelbourne provided a stage for Ballmer to act innocent w/o pushing back at all, and later on went onto Windhorst podcast, most prestigious podcast in the league media, and with Windhorst had a coverage totally tilted towards defedning the Clippers/ Ballmer.
We deserve better media than this.

My post was a summary of the video, the background is explained well in the 1 hour video, they even role play the counter arguments and refute them.

[G R E Y]

I'd like to add:

You know that photo of KL holding the Larry O trophy in one hand and his arm around Mitch Frankel in the other? From 2014.

Well in 2014 KL's agent was Brian Elfus.

The switch from Elfus to Frankel as official agent happened in 2016.

Elfus, by the way, sued KL/agency in 2018 for commission owed on a contract extension he negotiated in 2015.

Elfus and Spurs had a solid working relationship.


--------------------

Also, ahead of media day and denials, let's remember that KL was in the meetings with teams wherein DR asked for things legal and illegal. He knew. And is directly complicit.


Sure hope DR didn't do KL's taxes. No wait, sure do lol

[Ambrose]

Stern would have had everyone involved publicly flogged and exiled like Napoleon by now.

Stern was far from a paragon of integrity- the most horrendous officiating occurred during his tenure (93 Suns vs. Sonics, 02 Lakers vs. Kings, 06 Mavs vs Heat), he let Sterling stay as owner despite all of his poor conduct and allowed the Sonics to move out of Seattle. He definitely had a crooked side to him as well.

He was allegedly going to somehow allow Jordan to go to the Knicks on a cap circumventing offer because Jordan was a special case due to the magnitude of his stardom.

Stern had a more heavy hand, but integrity wise, one would have a much better case for Silver who is a more by the book guy. What Silver is not is a hard handed type of guy. People might be elevating Stern to something he was not.

Stern was corrupt but tough. Silver is a bitch.

[G R E Y]

Read on Twitter

[PushDaRock]

Read on Twitter

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I thought the episode was week, but the 1.85m donation to Sandberg chaeity was absolute gold.
There's absolutely zero plausible deniability.

[jscott]

Read on Twitter

Mark - who hurt you?

[SNPA]

I thought the episode was week, but the 1.85m donation to Sandberg chaeity was absolute gold.
There's absolutely zero plausible deniability.

What are you talking about. I donated this weekend to a charity run by a guy who scammed me. That’s normal.

[walk with me]

Devils advocate

1. Put Options: good negotiating tactics from kawhis agent (his only client iirc). Why take a deal on stock that may not hit? It doesn’t guarantee circumvention. Also why would you need a guaranteed contract if you already have a guarantee from ballmer? If the aspiration deal falls through ballmer would owe you the $$$ anyway.

It's just higher guarantee than regular stock options, the reason for this is the push back inside the company about Kawhi's deal, Sandberg had to guarantee it from his own stash rather than the company funds.
This was brought by Pablo to show that the people inside the company didn't approve of Kawhi's deal and Sandberg had to do manuevers to guarantee his pay.

2. Mitch Frankel - Kawhi is his only client so ofc he’d be aggressive about $$$. Also if this was an under the table deal AGREED TO BY BALLMER - why would frankel need to chase aspiration around?

This was brought to light to counter the claim that uncle Dennis is the culprit and the approved NBA channels had nothing to do with it, Frankel is Kawhi's NBA representative.

3. Charity donation: Bad optic's for sure but how does this even connect back to Kawhi? Seems more like negicliance from Ballmers team than anything else

This nullifies any validity to Ballmer's claim that he was dealing with a fraudster and that he was the victim, the last thing you do is to donate money to a fraudster after he defrauded you.

4. Shelborne/Windhorst claims: what does shelborne or windhorst have to do with what Lipton, Rosen, and Katz are doing? Ultimately they’re the only people who matter in determining fraud. Not nba media members. Besides Shelborne & Windhorst are doing EXACTLY what Pablo is but from the other side lol. Circumstantial evidence and “sources”. Ultimately NOBODY knows the truth except for Ballmer, Samberg, Frankel/Uncle Dennis. Lipton, Rosen, Katz are there to get the truth out of them.

They have nothing to do with the lawyers, that wasn't my point, they are supposed to be investigative reporters, and report on the subject, not in defense of a party, instead, Shelbourne provided a stage for Ballmer to act innocent w/o pushing back at all, and later on went onto Windhorst podcast, most prestigious podcast in the league media, and with Windhorst had a coverage totally tilted towards defedning the Clippers/ Ballmer.
We deserve better media than this.

My post was a summary of the video, the background is explained well in the 1 hour video, they even role play the counter arguments and refute them.

Quoting all this is tricky so will start an entire new response without quotes

1- we knew that the marketing team hated the deal. That’s not new info and we also knew that sanberg promised him half the money out of his pocket. We’d need to hear from Sanberg to know for sure why this happened this way. Circumstantial evidence works both ways right? (Circumstantially innocent or guilty depending on what Sanberg says - this is why I always favored hard evidence)

2- I feel like this is just misdirection. Who cares if it was Dennis or Frankel. Key thing is circumvention, I didn’t watch the video but I did run it through a YouTube transcript converter. It’s not relevant imo. What’s relevant is MORE NEW evidence.

3- this is the most sketchy thing but I think Pablo is doing a disservice to people following this story. It would be nice to hear from someone in charity/npo spaces or corporate fraud to understand how this could have happened and if it’s indicative of fraud/circumvention or just some corporate minutiae that is standard.

4- I mean Romona is pretty much the defacto espn reporter for all things LA & NBA. There’s really no reason in like a 10 minute video for her to grill ballmer who literally went on espn to just share his side of things. Same with windhorst, it’s not everyone’s responsibility to hold balmer over the fire. Everyone will research this situation in their own way and come to their own determinations. Maybe windhorst has sources that dispute what Pablo says but he doesn’t really care about this story. Him attacking these two is more of my issues with Pablo.

THIS STORY IS NO LONGER ABOUT CIRCUMVENTION…. Pablo is making this story about being right instead of just presenting facts. He’s run out of facts and knows the nba may rely on wanting to see hard evidence so he’s building a case for himself to “still be right” in the event the clippers are found innocent and he’s attacking anyone that can hurt his brand (Shelborne & Windhorst) it’s truly pathetic and a disservice to journalism.

From the start he should have introduced this as “POSSIBLE” corcumvention instead of doubling down over a month on “100% circumvention”. We’ll see how the investigation plays out but Pablo isn’t doing this with full on good intentions. It went from an interesting story to being entirely about himself and not presenting TRUTH. Truthfully - we don’t know if it’s circumvention and arguing l the semantics around CBAs weak language around circumvention doesn’t 100% mean it’s circumvention either. It may end up meaning the cba language is weak and we may never know what sanberg/dennis/kawhi agent/Ballmer had going on.

[SNPA]

… we may never know what sanberg/dennis/kawhi agent/Ballmer had going on.

Please be on my jury (should I ever need one).

[Mavrelous]

Quoting all this is tricky so will start an entire new response without quotes

1- we knew that the marketing team hated the deal. That’s not new info and we also knew that sanberg promised him half the money out of his pocket. We’d need to hear from Sanberg to know for sure why this happened this way. Circumstantial evidence works both ways right? (Circumstantially innocent or guilty depending on what Sanberg says - this is why I always favored hard evidence)

Again, Pablo is responding to arguments levied against his reporting, and his aim is to refute them, one of the arguments was, why would Kawhi be paid in stock option and not in money, and the reason he brings, is the company opposition to the deal.
Sandberg is pleading the 5th.

2- I feel like this is just misdirection. Who cares if it was Dennis or Frankel. Key thing is circumvention, I didn’t watch the video but I did run it through a YouTube transcript converter. It’s not relevant imo. What’s relevant is MORE NEW evidence.

It is relevant, because there is a campaign going on to single uncle Dennis as the guilty part and that no one else had a say in this.
This is the whole episode goal, to present defenses and arguments against his reporting and then refute them.

3- this is the most sketchy thing but I think Pablo is doing a disservice to people following this story. It would be nice to hear from someone in charity/npo spaces or corporate fraud to understand how this could have happened and if it’s indicative of fraud/circumvention or just some corporate minutiae that is standard.

I don't see a disservice, all I see is a reporter doing an actual investigation and defending it.
It's not his job to cover every possible scenario, he covered what looks like to be a major hole in Ballmer's defense, claiming he's a victim, Ballmer now needs to explain why he continued to fund someone that defrauded him.

4- I mean Romona is pretty much the defacto espn reporter for all things LA & NBA. There’s really no reason in like a 10 minute video for her to grill ballmer who literally went on espn to just share his side of things. Same with windhorst, it’s not everyone’s responsibility to hold balmer over the fire. Everyone will research this situation in their own way and come to their own determinations. Maybe windhorst has sources that dispute what Pablo says but he doesn’t really care about this story. Him attacking these two is more of my issues with Pablo.

THIS STORY IS NO LONGER ABOUT CIRCUMVENTION…. Pablo is making this story about being right instead of just presenting facts. He’s run out of facts and knows the nba may rely on wanting to see hard evidence so he’s building a case for himself to “still be right” in the event the clippers are found innocent and he’s attacking anyone that can hurt his brand (Shelborne & Windhorst) it’s truly pathetic and a disservice to journalism.

From the start he should have introduced this as “POSSIBLE” corcumvention instead of doubling down over a month on “100% circumvention”. We’ll see how the investigation plays out but Pablo isn’t doing this with full on good intentions. It went from an interesting story to being entirely about himself and not presenting TRUTH. Truthfully - we don’t know if it’s circumvention and arguing l the semantics around CBAs weak language around circumvention doesn’t 100% mean it’s circumvention either. It may end up meaning the cba language is weak and we may never know what sanberg/dennis/kawhi agent/Ballmer had going on.

I see nothing wrong with Pablo's work...
He, BTW, is the one exposing himself to a defamation lawsuit by one of the richest and most connected people in the world, I'd say he deserves some appreciation.

[tamaraw08]

Quoting all this is tricky so will start an entire new response without quotes

1- we knew that the marketing team hated the deal. That’s not new info and we also knew that sanberg promised him half the money out of his pocket. We’d need to hear from Sanberg to know for sure why this happened this way. Circumstantial evidence works both ways right? (Circumstantially innocent or guilty depending on what Sanberg says - this is why I always favored hard evidence)

Again, Pablo is responding to arguments levied against his reporting, and his aim is to refute them, one of the arguments was, why would Kawhi be paid in stock option and not in money, and the reason he brings, is the company opposition to the deal.
Sandberg is pleading the 5th.

2- I feel like this is just misdirection. Who cares if it was Dennis or Frankel. Key thing is circumvention, I didn’t watch the video but I did run it through a YouTube transcript converter. It’s not relevant imo. What’s relevant is MORE NEW evidence.

It is relevant, because there is a campaign going on to single uncle Dennis as the guilty part and that no one else had a say in this.
This is the whole episode goal, to present defenses and arguments against his reporting and then refute them.

3- this is the most sketchy thing but I think Pablo is doing a disservice to people following this story. It would be nice to hear from someone in charity/npo spaces or corporate fraud to understand how this could have happened and if it’s indicative of fraud/circumvention or just some corporate minutiae that is standard.

I don't see a disservice, all I see is a reporter doing an actual investigation and defending it.
It's not his job to cover every possible scenario, he covered what looks like to be a major hole in Ballmer's defense, claiming he's a victim, Ballmer now needs to explain why he continued to fund someone that defrauded him.

4- I mean Romona is pretty much the defacto espn reporter for all things LA & NBA. There’s really no reason in like a 10 minute video for her to grill ballmer who literally went on espn to just share his side of things. Same with windhorst, it’s not everyone’s responsibility to hold balmer over the fire. Everyone will research this situation in their own way and come to their own determinations. Maybe windhorst has sources that dispute what Pablo says but he doesn’t really care about this story. Him attacking these two is more of my issues with Pablo.

THIS STORY IS NO LONGER ABOUT CIRCUMVENTION…. Pablo is making this story about being right instead of just presenting facts. He’s run out of facts and knows the nba may rely on wanting to see hard evidence so he’s building a case for himself to “still be right” in the event the clippers are found innocent and he’s attacking anyone that can hurt his brand (Shelborne & Windhorst) it’s truly pathetic and a disservice to journalism.

From the start he should have introduced this as “POSSIBLE” corcumvention instead of doubling down over a month on “100% circumvention”. We’ll see how the investigation plays out but Pablo isn’t doing this with full on good intentions. It went from an interesting story to being entirely about himself and not presenting TRUTH. Truthfully - we don’t know if it’s circumvention and arguing l the semantics around CBAs weak language around circumvention doesn’t 100% mean it’s circumvention either. It may end up meaning the cba language is weak and we may never know what sanberg/dennis/kawhi agent/Ballmer had going on.

I see nothing wrong with Pablo's work...
He, BTW, is the one exposing himself to a defamation lawsuit by one of the richest and most connected people in the world, I'd say he deserves some appreciation.

If Pablo was so greedy, he should have went straight to Ballmer, asked to be employed by the billionaire for like 10 year for 10 Mil and offer to hand all his extensive research and sign an NDA.
Going back to Ramona Shellburne, this NBA reporter found ways to monetize her research by exposing the former Clippers owner with every filth the millionaire did with Sterling affairs podcast.
and then proceeded to go to FX to get more money by making a TV series out of it.
Now, she continues to work for ESPN as an NBA insider, double books to also appear in ESPNLA as a fill in host, appearing almost always late for that show. Nothing wrong with all her money hustles but she is clearly getting some kind of financial benefit by trying so hard to defend Steve Ballmer making sure she doesn't ask pointed questions that might incriminate the billionaire.

[1993Playoffs]

Man Cuban is making a complete ass of himself. It’s so fascinating lol.

[Invictus88]

Man Cuban is making a complete ass of himself. It’s so fascinating lol.

I just don't get it. There has to be more to it for him to remain actively defending Ballmer. Some other angle or compensation.

Any remotely reasonable person would have backed away by now. The further reveals just keep solidifying the cap circumvention claims.

I'm usually not one for conspiracy theories but it's getting difficult to believe he really is that hard-headed and stupid.

[ForeverTFC]

Man Cuban is making a complete ass of himself. It’s so fascinating lol.

I just don't get it. There has to be more to it for him to remain actively defending Ballmer. Some other angle or compensation.

Any remotely reasonable person would have backed away by now. The further reveals just keep solidifying the cap circumvention claims.

I'm usually not one for conspiracy theories but it's getting difficult to believe he really is that hard-headed and stupid.

He wants to get in Ballmer's good graces and ally with him - it's pretty obvious. All upside for him; the people on social media seeing him making an ass of himself are irrelevant to him and have nothing to offer.