ESPN Top 50 - Who Ranks too high and too low?

[Infinite Llamas]

Its 2025…in what universe is KP better than Deni?

[ReasonablySober]

Luka can't be above Giannis. The glaze is strong with this one.

Giannis has an argument for #1 or #2.

Giannis should be no lower than 3.

Jokic vs Giannis is a discussion.

Giannis vs Shai or Luka isn't. That's ridiculous.

I ask all of you why Giannis can't be lower. His team has been eliminated in the 1st round 3 years in a row at this point. Particularly ReasonablySober who is talking about the Lakers having top 2 10 players being eliminated in the 1st round.

It is eerily similar to Embiid's playoff luck despite the championship in 21.

When did I bring up the Lakers?

As for Giannis, It's not his fault that literally every season in the last three years either he or his best teammates have gone down with injury. He's still every bit as dominant as he was during his MVP and Finals run, if not better. Luka and Shai can't come close to that level.

[brackdan70]

I think Steph, LeBron and KD are too high, I would move up Mobley, Ant and Donovan Mitchell.

Agree

[brackdan70]

1. Nikola Jokic
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
3. Luka Doncic
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. Victor Wembanyama
6. Anthony Edwards
7. Stephen Curry
8. LeBron James
9. Kevin Durant
10. Jalen Brunson

11. Jalen Williams
12. Cade Cunningham
13. Evan Mobley
14. Anthony Davis
15. Donovan Mitchell
16. Devin Booker
17. Paolo Banchero
18. Jimmy Butler
19. Jaylen Brown
20. Kawhi Leonard

21. Bam Adebayo
22. Pascal Siakam
23. James Harden
24. Chet Holmgren
25. Alperen Sengun
26. Derrick White
27. Karl-Anthony Towns
28. Tyrese Maxey
29. Trae Young
30. Scottie Barnes

31. Jaren Jackson Jr.
32. Franz Wagner
33. Ja Morant
34. Domantas Sabonis
35. De’Aaron Fox
36. Ivica Zubac
37. Amen Thompson
38. Darius Garland
39. Desmond Bane
40. Aaron Gordon

41. OG Anunoby
42. Julius Randle
43. Lauri Markkanen
44. Jalen Johnson
45. Jarrett Allen
46. Jamal Murray
47. Joel Embiid
48. Mikal Bridges
49. Rudy Gobert
50. Kristaps Porzingis

Assuming this is expectation for the coming season.
I drop Luka a couple spots, drop Steph a few spots, drop Lebron and KD several. I drop Kawhi several as well.
Booker seems to high.
Mitchell and KAT seem to low.

[brackdan70]

Also a bit surprised to see Scottie Barnes so high.

[Mephariel]

If anything, lists like this make it obvious that league isn't as talented as some medias are trying brainwash you into believing.

There are players on those lists who play on same teams and can't even pass first rounds of playoffs.

Doesn't that prove the opposite point? That there is a lot of talent in the league and you need a lot to win?

What is with people like you who constantly have to diss the league?

Or that players who are sold as stars aren't as impacful as people pretend?

Among top 10, one of them never even played playoffs ( not holding that against Wemby because he is really young ) but top 10 is rock solid list, especially since Tatum is out. Consider fact that from 2012 -2025 every single title was one by one of : Curry, Lebron, Kawhi, Tatum, Jokić, SGA or Giannis and you will soon figure whole "parity" thing is myth. Competition among mid teams is strong, but only top 5 players are actually win titles.

Among 11-20, two never passed first round of playoffs, two play together, on East and are yet to reach CF. Matter of fact Cavs have 4 "top 50 players" and are yet to become serious contenders. Same with Knicks.


By the time you go to 20-30 list, you already get fundamentally flawed players with massive issues in their game that are often exploited in playoffs, like Towns and Young who are simply so bad on defense that they are detrimental for team success.

30-40 should still be list of star players, instead almost whole list is made out of glorified role players. 40-50 list, with exclusion of Embiid who might already be retired is made of nothing but role players.


So league is very top heavy, and there are way more teams (30) than actually impacful superstars ( 8-11 ). Rest of a teams are made out of "top 50 players" who are often overused , overpaid, glorified role players.


Whole list gets stilly pass top 10.
Examples:
Overrated. Cade 12# player. Based on what? 33% usage rate, fat counting stats, mediocre efficiency, team that hardly made playoffs (44-38 record) just to look like worst version of Westbrook in playoffs shooting 18% for 3? Guy averaged 5,3 TOs per game on 51% TS. What makes him top 12 player?
Will anybody be surprised if Pistons are once again this mediocre team? If so, what makes "12th best player" any more impacful than some Derozan, Coby White or Herro, who achive(d) same but with less hype?

Overrated. Lauri Markannen. Guy never played in playoffs. He is 29 and you can't even tell what is his best poistion. Even in Eurobasket, once again, he proved he can't play C nor has latheral quickness to play forward spots. Even in win vs Serbia, his defense was in 4th quarter just criminal.
Guy is for career 38% win rate player. It's not all his fault. But at some point guy can't be "top 50 player" if year after year after year provides nothing but empty stats on losing teams and nobody wants to trade for him because they all low-key know he ain't winning player.

Overrated. Scottie Barnes. What makes him better player than Ingram?

Underrated. Jamal Murray. Jamal Murray won title as second best player. Majority of people ahead of him never played in finals, and 50% of them never played in Conference Finals. In playoffs when Nuggets won title, Jamal outplayed pretty much all other players ranked way over him.

Underrated. Franz Wagner. Better overall player than Paolo. Every year they played together.


Players that are better than some of those people in top 50, who aren't listed.
Andrew Wiggins
Avdija
Caruso ( one of most impacful guards in nba but not "sexy offensive numbers" )
I Hart
Dyson Daniels
Trey Murphy
Ingram


My overall conclusion is that league's defense, especially in regular season is so poor, that League manufactured incredible amount of "stars" and "all star contenders" so every fan, including all those fans from tanking teams can feel better in illusion of "bright future".
Stat inflation is such a thing, that among 30 teams, 62 different players averaged at least 15 ppg.

In reality, basketball is young men sport, and if you have league where top 15 is still dominated by people in mid to late 30s and even in 40s, that just means that League is not as talented as people want to believe. It's just much easier to average numbers than in past were considered "superstar numbers", therefore casual fans & media present them as superstars.

In 2008-2009 we had 20 players average 20,00 ppg. Only 1 player averaged 30,00 PPG or more.
In 2011-2012, we had only 12 players averaging 20 ppg. 0 players averaged 30,00 PPG (or more, ofc)
In 2018-19 we had 22 players averaging 20,00 PPG, 1 player over 30,00 PPG

In 2023-24 we had 37 players averaging at least 20 PPG, and 3 players averagind 30 ppg
In 2024-25 we had we had 34 players averaging at least 20,00 PPG, and 2 players averaging 30 PPG

League didn't get any better than 2018-19 talent vise, literally it got worst since all the best players from 2018-19 are still best players, just declined due age, yet you had wooping 68% increese in amount of players who average 20,00 ppg. Meaning, it just got so much easier to stat padd due worst defense (than ever ? )

You basically post a essay without saying anything substantial. This is the same perspective all the old-timers keep pushing. Everyone is stat padding, and they can't possibly be that good because they just can't.

[zero rings]

The Franz over Paolo idea is questionable. Paolo has shown in the playoffs the last couple of seasons that he can reach a level that Franz can't. Franz' offensive game is a little more predictable, and if he can't hit outside shots, you can stop him much easier. Franz usually doesn't take bad shots and is always in the right place defensively, which makes him efficient.

I could see Deni Advija making some top 20s soon. I'm interested to see what Portland can do this season when they aren't tanking.

It's a shame what Utah has done to Markkanen. He's had to sit out some of his prime years.

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In the playoffs Paolo averaged 29 points on 25 shots. Any other star player does that and we’d be killing them all summer, but with Paolo it’s a sign of greatness…

And it’s not like he’s some elite defender like Franz is. His calling card is his scoring, and so far in the NBA he hasn’t actually been a good scorer. He’s just a guy who takes a lot of shots and produces below average offense.

He needs to take a huge leap this year, or that contract is going to look brutal.

[Effigy]

Mitchell is the big one they missed IMO. He should be above Cade and Williams etc. I'd have him 10th probably.

[Bad Bart]

Mitchell is the big one they missed IMO. He should be above Cade and Williams etc. I'd have him 10th probably.

Agreed, definitely surprising to see him so low, especially considering he was just first team All-NBA.

[basketballRob]

The Franz over Paolo idea is questionable. Paolo has shown in the playoffs the last couple of seasons that he can reach a level that Franz can't. Franz' offensive game is a little more predictable, and if he can't hit outside shots, you can stop him much easier. Franz usually doesn't take bad shots and is always in the right place defensively, which makes him efficient.

I could see Deni Advija making some top 20s soon. I'm interested to see what Portland can do this season when they aren't tanking.

It's a shame what Utah has done to Markkanen. He's had to sit out some of his prime years.

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In the playoffs Paolo averaged 29 points on 25 shots. Any other star player does that and we’d be killing them all summer, but with Paolo it’s a sign of greatness…

And it’s not like he’s some elite defender like Franz is. His calling card is his scoring, and so far in the NBA he hasn’t actually been a good scorer. He’s just a guy who takes a lot of shots and produces below average offense.

He needs to take a huge leap this year, or that contract is going to look brutal.

28 ppg on around 22.5 FGA in the playoffs for his career. All his playoff games were against top 5 defenses.

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[Catchall]

Based on last season, I'd move Giannis a spot above Luka.
Also, JDub is getting overrated. I like him, but he's not better than Paolo, Mitchell or (healthy) Kawhi.
I don't think Bam has been a top-30 guy as of late.
Zubac has gotten overrated somehow. I don't think he's a top 40 or 50 guy.
Lauri is 8-10 spots too low.
Avdija should be on this list.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Personally think Franz is overrated with how basketball literate people speak about his production. He isn't that great of a ball handler and passer, a below average on high decent volume scorer, and a decent defender. Yet he's talked about like he can be a 1a on a championship team. I say this being a Raptor's fan having Scottie on our roster who thinks neither should be above JJJ if we're going off last season.

Amen is also overrated given what he actually is and not who people are hoping he can be.

I'm also not seeing how Jaylen Brown is this high given his contract and what he's actually going to be able to produce being a focal point on a slender team. Are you sure JB is like 60 slots better than Brandon Ingram if both are healthy?

[Statlanta]

When did I bring up the Lakers?

As for Giannis, It's not his fault that literally every season in the last three years either he or his best teammates have gone down with injury. He's still every bit as dominant as he was during his MVP and Finals run, if not better. Luka and Shai can't come close to that level.

My bad I misconstrued you as Ron Swanson.

[f4p]

They got the top 7 players right (though Luka over Giannis is wrong). LeBron and KD way too high. Embiid I get is hard to rate but 47 seems too low. Amen is also too high imo as is Garland. I assume this is supposed to be a projection for next season though, so in that context I guess it's not terrible

It's weird how common it is that people don't often extend the KD LeBron logic to Steph. Steph has played 2 healthy playoffs since 2019. And lebron's last 2 playoffs he put up some of the best numbers in the league. I would agree that all 3 are older and less able to be relied upon to be healthy and available.

[MMyhre]

I think J-Dub will prove a lot of guys wrong this season.. Chet could also rise many spots if he figures it out. Paolo and Cade are one season away from becoming this eras Carmelo Anthonys, overrated. I will give them this season to see if they can figure it out, but for now they are both overrated, and a two way player like Wagner (highest +/- in Eurobasket) is not 20 spots worse than Cade.

[God Squad]

I'll always find it amusing how bothered people get by these top 50 lists.

[MarcusBrody]

I'm also not seeing how Jaylen Brown is this high given his contract and what he's actually going to be able to produce being a focal point on a slender team. Are you sure JB is like 60 slots better than Brandon Ingram if both are healthy?

Was the list factoring in contract? I don't think it was (they just did a bunch of pairwise "Which player will be better in 2025/26?" Whether Brown can produce as a focal point is of course still to be determined, but I don't think his contract was taken into account here (nor is long term productivity) as it's not a trade value list.

[Doctor MJ]

The Franz over Paolo idea is questionable. Paolo has shown in the playoffs the last couple of seasons that he can reach a level that Franz can't. Franz' offensive game is a little more predictable, and if he can't hit outside shots, you can stop him much easier. Franz usually doesn't take bad shots and is always in the right place defensively, which makes him efficient.

I could see Deni Advija making some top 20s soon. I'm interested to see what Portland can do this season when they aren't tanking.

It's a shame what Utah has done to Markkanen. He's had to sit out some of his prime years.

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In the playoffs Paolo averaged 29 points on 25 shots. Any other star player does that and we’d be killing them all summer, but with Paolo it’s a sign of greatness…

And it’s not like he’s some elite defender like Franz is. His calling card is his scoring, and so far in the NBA he hasn’t actually been a good scorer. He’s just a guy who takes a lot of shots and produces below average offense.

He needs to take a huge leap this year, or that contract is going to look brutal.

28 ppg on around 22.5 FGA in the playoffs for his career. All his playoff games were against top 5 defenses.

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Well, he's been inefficient across every regular season too, along with the team literally doing better when he's on the bench every year so far.

None of this means he can't turn the corner - and teams letting their putative alpha learn on the job for a while before he figures it out is not unusual - but to this point he's gotten praise because the team has decided to play through him and thus allowed him to get production, not because he's been effective in the role.

[flow]

* Schroder being omitted from the Top 100 is absurd.

Carry on.

.

[Doctor MJ]

* Schroder being omitted from the Top 100 is absurd.

Carry on.

.

Is it?

In a league with 30 teams we'd expect the average team to have 3 or 4 players in the Top 100.

Players who are top 3 or 4 on their team generally don't move around that much.

Shroeder's about to start on his 8th new team since the 2020s began and we're only halfway through the decade.

Why would a Top 100 player change teams so often?