LeBron James longevity

[f4p]

In playoff VORP, Tim Duncan, a guy with one of the longest careers of sustained greatness and long playoff runs, is 3rd all time at about 18. MJ is second, an amazing almost 33% ahead at 24.

LeBron is at 36. In other words, if you took Tim Duncan's playoff career, one of the greatest ever, maybe the 3rd greatest longevity career ever, and then added another Tim Duncan career, it would basically be LeBron James.

[Maxthirty]

He’s pretty good.

[manlisten]

When he first got to the Lakers there was constant noise about him falling off a cliff any day. 7 years later and it's pretty much treated like a formality that he'll play at an All Star level. It's been incredible to watch as a fan and inspiring as a guy in my mid 30s myself. Seriously, watch his season highlights from last year. The man is ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/qbPQ3uMvcxM?si=w4T3PB9ivBd1qgEb

[Caneman786]

When he first got to the Lakers there was constant noise about him falling off a cliff any day. 7 years later and it's pretty much treated like a formality that he'll play at an All Star level. It's been incredible to watch as a fan and inspiring as a guy in my mid 30s myself. Seriously, watch his season highlights from last year. The man is ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/qbPQ3uMvcxM?si=w4T3PB9ivBd1qgEb

The last few years he did fall off a cliff.

Maybe due to LeESPN you didn't notice but he's a net negative in 2025. I had him around #50 last season, and I don't expect him to be top 75 next season.

The stat pad doesn't end for LeFraud James.

[Mephariel]

When he first got to the Lakers there was constant noise about him falling off a cliff any day. 7 years later and it's pretty much treated like a formality that he'll play at an All Star level. It's been incredible to watch as a fan and inspiring as a guy in my mid 30s myself. Seriously, watch his season highlights from last year. The man is ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/qbPQ3uMvcxM?si=w4T3PB9ivBd1qgEb

The last few years he did fall off a cliff.

Maybe due to LeESPN you didn't notice but he's a net negative in 2025. I had him around #50 last season, and I don't expect him to be top 75 next season.

The stat pad doesn't end for LeFraud James.

Get Lebron out of your head man. It is not healthy like this.

[EmpireFalls]

Serena Williams at 40 was still elite.

Definitely not. However, she had given birth by that point, so it’s a wash. But she was far from elite in the 2020s.

[Jakay]

I don’t think people realize how crazy his longevity is. He’s about to do something that has never been done, and that is play year 23.

There were people writing him off in his Miami days, saying that he was too reliant on athleticism to have a long career.

He keeps defying odds and doing things never done before, like playing with his son in the same game.

LeBron’s longevity is one of the most impressive things I’ve seen in this league. And he’s not just playing, he’s still putting up all-star caliber numbers. Pure insanity.

Great point. At some point people will probably start to notice this. It's like everyone is all "23 years pfft I could do that"

[NyKnicks1714]

When he first got to the Lakers there was constant noise about him falling off a cliff any day. 7 years later and it's pretty much treated like a formality that he'll play at an All Star level. It's been incredible to watch as a fan and inspiring as a guy in my mid 30s myself. Seriously, watch his season highlights from last year. The man is ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/qbPQ3uMvcxM?si=w4T3PB9ivBd1qgEb

The cliff isn't coming. He'll continue the gradual decline until he retires in 1 or 2 years.

[Jakay]

At some point he'll just deiced he's set the records he wanted to set and retire. Wilt apparently could have hung in the league throughout most of his 40s. Athletic freak sure, but we're talking about athletic freaks. LeBron at 46, at this rate, is likely still a bench player that can occasionally take over. Who knows. What I'm saying is he'll probably just retire at some point just because.

Or a freak injury but hopefully not.

[JN61]

It's been largely irrelevant of him padding stats for 1st round exit team where another superstar is carrying him to that very spot. And that's been going on several years now. Last 6-7 years defensively he has been just standing still and doing occasional chase down block to please fans with hazy eyes. Or play last 1½ minutes of the game very performative 1v1 defense (stops instantly when he is not on the ball) where offense usually breaks him down if they rotate ball even once.

So sure, he is putting up numbers in expense of his own team. Stat padding is fine I guess as long as it is Lebron.

[Anderson Hunt]

Yes, it's very impressive and only a handful of athletes have done this:

I think the gold standard is still Tom Brady who at 40 years old won MVP, and led the Patriots to the SB and then at 44 years old he finished 2nd in MVP voting, won a SB and won SB MVP with a different team.

Jagr was still an elite level player in his early 40s in the NHL.

Serena Williams at 40 was still elite.

I'd say Barry Bonds is the gold-standard for old-athlete dominance.

[Anderson Hunt]

He is an athletic specimen who is also tremendously skilled. His dominant body/skill combination is unmatched. When you mix these things with an open NBA play style that encourages offense and his insane ability to get "his numbers" at all cost, you have the James that exists in 2025 -- still statistically relevant after 23 years.

That being said, his ability to put up numbers hasn't been conducive to winning for many years. For the Lakers to be legitimate contenders, he would need to be relegated to their third most statistically important player, which will never, ever happen because he has programmed himself to get 25/7/7 -- winning be damned.

Like Wilt Chamberlain, his gaudy numbers are the key to his legacy, so I fully expect him to put up all-NBA numbers in whatever he chooses to be his final season.

[lambchop]

Longevity like James brings me to an idea of mine - for all sports really but let’s stay within basketball.

The reason the greats need to retire is the grind of the regular season…which is different than playoffs. Some will say one is a marathon and other more of a sprint. The greats would love to still play playoff basketball but not suffer through the regular season.

What if NBA allowed for 1-2 players per roster to be deemed Legends. Said player(s) could play in playoffs and not be required to participate in regular season.

To accomplish, I think the regular season would need to be revamped. I think the ‘regular season’ would be 70-85% of total games played. Followed by an all-star break. Then a SOS/seeded Playoff Series for remaining games would be conducted. This is where Legends would jump in to start playing.

Based on a point system from Regular and Playoff season - Championship Series would commence with top 16 teams to determine NBA champion.

Clippers are already doing that with Kawhi. No one can simply play the playoffs and not be extremely rusty every single year. The Kawhi load management model is the blueprint - get a roster that can make the playoffs without its "legend", have said player play sporadically during the regular season and then go full tilt in the playoffs.

Teams are already allowed to do that. You just need a competent front office and players who are Willi to sacrifice stats for a potential shot at more rings.

[CumberlandPosey]

He is an athletic specimen who is also tremendously skilled. His dominant body/skill combination is unmatched. When you mix these things with an open NBA play style that encourages offense and his insane ability to get "his numbers" at all cost, you have the James that exists in 2025 -- still statistically relevant after 23 years.

That being said, his ability to put up numbers hasn't been conducive to winning for many years. For the Lakers to be legitimate contenders, he would need to be relegated to their third most statistically important player, which will never, ever happen because he has programmed himself to get 25/7/7 -- winning be damned.

Like Wilt Chamberlain, his gaudy numbers are the key to his legacy, so I fully expect him to put up all-NBA numbers in whatever he chooses to be his final season.

is king james stat-padding ???

[The Explorer]

It's been largely irrelevant of him padding stats for 1st round exit team where another superstar is carrying him to that very spot. And that's been going on several years now. Last 6-7 years defensively he has been just standing still and doing occasional chase down block to please fans with hazy eyes. Or play last 1½ minutes of the game very performative 1v1 defense (stops instantly when he is not on the ball) where offense usually breaks him down if they rotate ball even once.

So sure, he is putting up numbers in expense of his own team. Stat padding is fine I guess as long as it is Lebron.

There were many occasions last season where he was playing in the 4th quarter of games just to get his 25 points. His can get his numbers, but they are meaningless to anyone watching. He was undeserving of 2nd team all-nba. He ditched the All-star game at the last minute when someone more worthy could have played. People forget he also ditched the team in the middle of the season with no explanation. The man has no integrity and is being enabled by Redick and Pelinka. This is not true longevity. True longevity is playing with integrity and actually impacting the game.

John Stockton played 82 games in his age 40 season and actually played defense and set screens for teammates while being the smallest guy on the court. Michael Jordan was diving on the floor for loose balls at age 40 while playing 82 games. That is longevity.

[TheNG]

It's been largely irrelevant of him padding stats for 1st round exit team where another superstar is carrying him to that very spot. And that's been going on several years now. Last 6-7 years defensively he has been just standing still and doing occasional chase down block to please fans with hazy eyes. Or play last 1½ minutes of the game very performative 1v1 defense (stops instantly when he is not on the ball) where offense usually breaks him down if they rotate ball even once.

So sure, he is putting up numbers in expense of his own team. Stat padding is fine I guess as long as it is Lebron.

There were many occasions last season where he was playing in the 4th quarter of games just to get his 25 points. His can get his numbers, but they are meaningless to anyone watching. He was undeserving of 2nd team all-nba. He ditched the All-star game at the last minute when someone more worthy could have played. People forget he also ditched the team in the middle of the season with no explanation. The man has no integrity and is being enabled by Redick and Pelinka. This is not true longevity. True longevity is playing with integrity and actually impacting the game.

John Stockton played 82 games in his age 40 season and actually played defense and set screens for teammates while being the smallest guy on the court. Michael Jordan was diving on the floor for loose balls at age 40 while playing 82 games. That is longevity.

How about Kareem? He actually won a ring at age 41.

[TheGeneral99]

Just incredible.

I do have wonders what MJ would have been able to do if he never retired in 1998 at the age of 34. That year he won MVP and FMVP. When he returned after 3 years off at age 38 he was still an all-star caliber player. I don't think it's out of the realm to think that MJ would have still been an elite player well into his late 30s had he not retired prematurely.

[Mazter]

Huge spacing + 3 def sec rule + non-stop mismatch hunting.
It's easier than ever to get to the rim nowadays.

Still a good stat.

Yet the stats tell a different story. The biggest misconception is that spacing creates shots at the rim. It really doesn't. It creates open shots from 3 as defenses collapses in the paint. Any defense will choose a 40-45% shot from the arc over a 70-100% at the rim. And any offense chooses a 40-45% 3 point shot over a 50-60% challenged shot at the rim.

Code: Select all

        % of FGA     FG% by Dist.
Year   0--3   3-10   0--3    3-10
1997   .341   .142   .552   .437
1998   .286   .178   .628   .376
1999   .266   .188   .620   .365
2023   .245   .206   .701   .454
2024   .241   .211   .699   .452
2025   .226   .214   .696   .461


You really have to be explosive and/or strong to get to the rim in today games. While in the 90's you had to have vision and awareness (Stockton previously holding the record of most shots made at the rim by a 40-year old)

*the stats are from bbref

[Mazter]

Just incredible.

I do have wonders what MJ would have been able to do if he never retired in 1998 at the age of 34. That year he won MVP and FMVP. When he returned after 3 years off at age 38 he was still an all-star caliber player. I don't think it's out of the realm to think that MJ would have still been an elite player well into his late 30s had he not retired prematurely.

Small correction, Jordan turned 35 in February 1998 and retired at 35. Both him and the Bulls roster were clearly on the decline, both physically and mentally. I don't think him playing at 36 would have ended well, and him losing in 1999 would have really give his legacy a hit.

Code: Select all

         1996    1997    1998
PPG      30.4    29.6    28.7
TS%      .582    .567    .533
PER      29.4    27.8    25.2
TmOff    115.2   114.4   107.7
Ranked   1st     1st     9th 


[Braggins]

Obvious GOAT and its honestly embarrassing that there is still a slight consensus in favor of MJ at this point.