Top 10 QB's

[Jaydubb]

Hurts does what he needs to do for his team to win. when they were down 26-7 last week he threw 3 TD passes in the second half to lead the comeback. They were up huge this week so they went conservative in the second half.

Yep. And honestly I think this is an underrated part of Jalen hurts game. He literally does not care about stats so he doesn’t need to be “the guy” to get his team into a position to win. He doesn’t care if saquon Barkley or a receiver or the defense etc take the headlines because all he cares about is winning. A lot of QBs egos can get in their way sometimes but hurts literally just wants to win.

[El Turco]

Eagles wouldnt have won last year without a top 10 QB, QB isnt everything but it sure is the biggest thing.

It might be the single biggest "player" but it isn't the biggest "thing".

Logistically speaking, and mathematically speaking, a defense preventing a TD has the exact same impact as a QB throwing a TD.

A goalie in soccer or hockey usually has more impact to the final score than the players that are actually scoring.

Speaking of a QB throwing a TD, that requires blockers to block for him, a WR to catch for him, and the threat of a RB to open things up for him. One pass is much more than just HIM.


There is no "QB" for the defense, or "goalie". I suppose a MLB would be the closest thing. And that is the only reason that on a player level, QB is at the top.

The job of goalies or defenders is to stop the movements of attackers, so they’re not in control of the gameplay. And no, goalies—at least in soccer—don’t have as much impact, because at the highest level, there isn’t a wide variance in talent. As a result, there’s not a huge variance in their impact on the game. Generally, teams have a goalkeeper ranging from an A+ to a B level, so they all do a good job, but few are truly exceptional. Major mistakes are outliers.

On the other hand, there’s a massive drop-off when you go from a top-tier quarterback to a replacement.

Defenses, offensive lines, and skill players don’t move randomly or on their own, their movements depend entirely on the quarterback’s decisions. Essentially, the entire flow of the game is predicated on what the quarterback does, or plans to do. There is no other position in team sports with such critical value.

[Micah Prescott]

Eagles wouldnt have won last year without a top 10 QB, QB isnt everything but it sure is the biggest thing.

It might be the single biggest "player" but it isn't the biggest "thing".

Logistically speaking, and mathematically speaking, a defense preventing a TD has the exact same impact as a QB throwing a TD.

A goalie in soccer or hockey usually has more impact to the final score than the players that are actually scoring.

Speaking of a QB throwing a TD, that requires blockers to block for him, a WR to catch for him, and the threat of a RB to open things up for him. One pass is much more than just HIM.


There is no "QB" for the defense, or "goalie". I suppose a MLB would be the closest thing. And that is the only reason that on a player level, QB is at the top.

The job of goalies or defenders is to stop the movements of attackers, so they’re not in control of the gameplay. And no, goalies—at least in soccer—don’t have as much impact, because at the highest level, there isn’t a wide variance in talent. As a result, there’s not a huge variance in their impact on the game. Generally, teams have a goalkeeper ranging from an A+ to a B level, so they all do a good job, but few are truly exceptional. Major mistakes are outliers.

On the other hand, there’s a massive drop-off when you go from a top-tier quarterback to a replacement.

Defenses, offensive lines, and skill players don’t move randomly or on their own, their movements depend entirely on the quarterback’s decisions. Essentially, the entire flow of the game is predicated on what the quarterback does, or plans to do. There is no other position in team sports with such critical value.

A goalie recording a "save" has the exact same impact on the score as a striker kicking a goal. They both effect the score by 1 point.

In football, the defense preventing a TD has the same impact as the offense scoring a TD.

You can say that of all the players, the QB has the most impact, and you would be correct. But the QB all by himself does not have as much impact as the defensive unit AS A WHOLE. Typically anyway.


Do you think if you brought your whole "the QB is everything" logic to Vince Lombardi that he would entertain your thoughts? No he would be offended by them. People who think this is a game of tennis are offensive to those that actually played football.

[El Turco]

It might be the single biggest "player" but it isn't the biggest "thing".

Logistically speaking, and mathematically speaking, a defense preventing a TD has the exact same impact as a QB throwing a TD.

A goalie in soccer or hockey usually has more impact to the final score than the players that are actually scoring.

Speaking of a QB throwing a TD, that requires blockers to block for him, a WR to catch for him, and the threat of a RB to open things up for him. One pass is much more than just HIM.


There is no "QB" for the defense, or "goalie". I suppose a MLB would be the closest thing. And that is the only reason that on a player level, QB is at the top.

The job of goalies or defenders is to stop the movements of attackers, so they’re not in control of the gameplay. And no, goalies—at least in soccer—don’t have as much impact, because at the highest level, there isn’t a wide variance in talent. As a result, there’s not a huge variance in their impact on the game. Generally, teams have a goalkeeper ranging from an A+ to a B level, so they all do a good job, but few are truly exceptional. Major mistakes are outliers.

On the other hand, there’s a massive drop-off when you go from a top-tier quarterback to a replacement.

Defenses, offensive lines, and skill players don’t move randomly or on their own, their movements depend entirely on the quarterback’s decisions. Essentially, the entire flow of the game is predicated on what the quarterback does, or plans to do. There is no other position in team sports with such critical value.

A goalie recording a "save" has the exact same impact on the score as a striker kicking a goal. They both effect the score by 1 point.

In football, the defense preventing a TD has the same impact as the offense scoring a TD.

You can say that of all the players, the QB has the most impact, and you would be correct. But the QB all by himself does not have as much impact as the defensive unit AS A WHOLE. Typically anyway.


Do you think if you brought your whole "the QB is everything" logic to Vince Lombardi that he would entertain your thoughts? No he would be offended by them. People who think this is a game of tennis are offensive to those that actually played football.

Again, goalies and defenders are reacting to what an attacker does. If an attacker decides to do nothing, they wouldn’t need to do anything either, so their actions are entirely dependent on the attacker. In team sports attackers generally have more impact than defenders since they control the gameplay. But unlike other sports, in football the attack is controlled and directed by a single player. Therefore the quarterback does have more impact than the entire defense.

In the last 15 years there have been six Super Bowl champions with defenses ranked 20th or lower. In the same time frame only two below-average quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl, Foles and Peyton, and neither of them played like bad quarterbacks during their playoff runs. The last team to win a Super Bowl with actual “bad” quarterback play was the Buccaneers in 2003 with Brad Johnson. So statistically, you’re way more likely to win with a bad defense than with a bad quarterback.


I never said the QB is everything—that’s just you fighting windmills, as usual lol.

[Micah Prescott]

Again, goalies and defenders are reacting to what an attacker does. If an attacker decides to do nothing, they wouldn’t need to do anything either, so their actions are entirely dependent on the attacker. In team sports attackers generally have more impact than defenders since they control the gameplay. But unlike other sports, in football the attack is controlled and directed by a single player. Therefore the quarterback does have more impact than the entire defense.

This lacks logic, there are goalies and defenders who are good at reacting to the offense/QB. And there are defenders who are bad at it.

QBs also have to react to the defense as well. Who has to react to who is meaningless here. Both sides effect the score evenly. That is a mathematical fact.

In the last 15 years there have been six Super Bowl champions with defenses ranked 20th or lower. In the same time frame only two below-average quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl, Foles and Peyton, and neither of them played like bad quarterbacks during their playoff runs. The last team to win a Super Bowl with actual “bad” quarterback play was the Buccaneers in 2003 with Brad Johnson. So statistically, you’re way more likely to win with a bad defense than with a bad quarterback.

Foles and Peyton is it? This entire convo started with Hurts who won with the #1 defense in the NFL. When Stafford won his ring he led the NFL in INTs. Basically anyone not named Brady or Mahomes falls into the "not elite" category. I might give some of them "above" average.

Peyton flat out sucked, he threw 0 TDs and 1 INT in the Super Bowl, that ring was 100% defense.

[El Turco]

Again, goalies and defenders are reacting to what an attacker does. If an attacker decides to do nothing, they wouldn’t need to do anything either, so their actions are entirely dependent on the attacker. In team sports attackers generally have more impact than defenders since they control the gameplay. But unlike other sports, in football the attack is controlled and directed by a single player. Therefore the quarterback does have more impact than the entire defense.

This lacks logic, there are goalies and defenders who are good at reacting to the offense/QB. And there are defenders who are bad at it.

QBs also have to react to the defense as well. Who has to react to who is meaningless here. Both sides effect the score evenly. That is a mathematical fact.

In the last 15 years there have been six Super Bowl champions with defenses ranked 20th or lower. In the same time frame only two below-average quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl, Foles and Peyton, and neither of them played like bad quarterbacks during their playoff runs. The last team to win a Super Bowl with actual “bad” quarterback play was the Buccaneers in 2003 with Brad Johnson. So statistically, you’re way more likely to win with a bad defense than with a bad quarterback.

Foles and Peyton is it? This entire convo started with Hurts who won with the #1 defense in the NFL. When Stafford won his ring he led the NFL in INTs. Basically anyone not named Brady or Mahomes falls into the "not elite" category. I might give some of them "above" average.

Peyton flat out sucked, he threw 0 TDs and 1 INT in the Super Bowl, that ring was 100% defense.

The greatest goalie in the world isn't going to save a ball that’s going top corner. No defense will stop a perfectly thrown back-shoulder fade. Perfect offense beats perfect defense because offense controls the gameplay, there’s no sport in the world—maybe except for baseball—where defense controls the flow of the game. You're talking like an alien learning about sports for the first time.

Peyton had a league-average QB rating of 76 during his super bowl run in 2015, that was your league average that year. I’ll give him to you, since you're grasping at straws—but him and Foles are all you get in the last 15 years.

Evaluating QBs solely by interceptions or calling Stafford a “bad QB” really shows a lack of football acumen, no need to proceed further. His playoff run was 300 yards per game, 108 QB rating lol.

[Cactus Jack]

I don't care what Bjj says, Dak is the early season MVP. I won't be convinced otherwise.

[Jaydubb]

Again, goalies and defenders are reacting to what an attacker does. If an attacker decides to do nothing, they wouldn’t need to do anything either, so their actions are entirely dependent on the attacker. In team sports attackers generally have more impact than defenders since they control the gameplay. But unlike other sports, in football the attack is controlled and directed by a single player. Therefore the quarterback does have more impact than the entire defense.

This lacks logic, there are goalies and defenders who are good at reacting to the offense/QB. And there are defenders who are bad at it.

QBs also have to react to the defense as well. Who has to react to who is meaningless here. Both sides effect the score evenly. That is a mathematical fact.

In the last 15 years there have been six Super Bowl champions with defenses ranked 20th or lower. In the same time frame only two below-average quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl, Foles and Peyton, and neither of them played like bad quarterbacks during their playoff runs. The last team to win a Super Bowl with actual “bad” quarterback play was the Buccaneers in 2003 with Brad Johnson. So statistically, you’re way more likely to win with a bad defense than with a bad quarterback.

Foles and Peyton is it? This entire convo started with Hurts who won with the #1 defense in the NFL. When Stafford won his ring he led the NFL in INTs. Basically anyone not named Brady or Mahomes falls into the "not elite" category. I might give some of them "above" average.

Peyton flat out sucked, he threw 0 TDs and 1 INT in the Super Bowl, that ring was 100% defense.

The greatest goalie in the world isn't going to save a ball that’s going top corner. No defense will stop a perfectly thrown back-shoulder fade. Perfect offense beats perfect defense because offense controls the gameplay, there’s no sport in the world—maybe except for baseball—where defense controls the flow of the game. You're talking like an alien learning about sports for the first time.

Peyton had a league-average QB rating of 76 during his super bowl run in 2015, that was your league average that year. I’ll give him to you, since you're grasping at straws—but him and Foles are all you get in the last 15 years.

Evaluating QBs solely by interceptions or calling Stafford a “bad QB” really shows a lack of football acumen, no need to proceed further. His playoff run was 300 yards per game, 108 QB rating lol.

Kinda starting to wonder if some cowboy fans are arguing a certain way because kellen Moore used to be an offensive coordinator in Dallas, did nothing, and then went to the eagles in the same role and won a Super Bowl in his first year. So, down play the effectiveness of offense to make it not hurt as much or something? lol..

[Jaydubb]

I don't care what Bjj says, Dak is the early season MVP. I won't be convinced otherwise.

I will say he looked very good against Green Bay for sure

[QB_Eagles]

A goalie recording a "save" has the exact same impact on the score as a striker kicking a goal. They both effect the score by 1 point.

In football, the defense preventing a TD has the same impact as the offense scoring a TD.

No, because there are more shots on goal than goals in a soccer game.

Similarly, there are more drives than TDs in a football game.

Even the worst defense last year "stopped" like 130 TD drives.

[QB_Eagles]

Kinda starting to wonder if some cowboy fans are arguing a certain way because kellen Moore used to be an offensive coordinator in Dallas, did nothing, and then went to the eagles in the same role and won a Super Bowl in his first year. So, down play the effectiveness of offense to make it not hurt as much or something? lol..

Yeah, definitely some of the "conclusions" are only presented in this thread because they were derived from flawed presumptions.

[QB_Eagles]

Foles and Peyton is it? This entire convo started with Hurts who won with the #1 defense in the NFL. When Stafford won his ring he led the NFL in INTs. Basically anyone not named Brady or Mahomes falls into the "not elite" category. I might give some of them "above" average.

By every stat Mahomes was average last season but to you he is elite. Make it make sense.

Foles performs better than Mahomes in Super Bowls.

[bluejerseyjinx]

I don't care what Bjj says, Dak is the early season MVP. I won't be convinced otherwise.

I don't care what Cactus Jack says, Dumb Dak is a choker and loser, especially in big games. I won't be convinced otherwise, especially from Jerry. Anyways, onward through the fog. Dak to the rescue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Micah Prescott]

Foles and Peyton is it? This entire convo started with Hurts who won with the #1 defense in the NFL. When Stafford won his ring he led the NFL in INTs. Basically anyone not named Brady or Mahomes falls into the "not elite" category. I might give some of them "above" average.

By every stat Mahomes was average last season but to you he is elite. Make it make sense.

Foles performs better than Mahomes in Super Bowls.

I literally posted just last week in this thread that Mahomes is average now. Scroll back and find it.

It is the fans who are reducing an entire 53 man roster and full coaching staff to - "the QB is good!" that need to make sense.

[Micah Prescott]

^^^ ALL OF THIS reduced down to "Foles beat everyone"

[LAKESHOW]

If Nick Foles got a statue in front of Eagles Stadium, shouldn't Jalen Hurts get one as well?

[El Turco]

Average Cowboys fan at a doctor's office...

Doctor: Vegetables are the most important food group for you, you should definitely consume high quality vegetables within your diet.

: ARE YOU SAYING I SHOULD ONLY EAT BROCCOLI???

Doctor: wut

[QB_Eagles]

^^^ ALL OF THIS reduced down to "Foles beat everyone"

I mean... have you looked at Tom Brady's stats in that Super Bowl? Without Foles' ridiculous performance, the Eagles don't win that one.

BTW I was one of the earliest Eagles fans, i.e. back before Hurts was drafted, to say we probably don't win that one with Wentz either.

[QB_Eagles]

Foles and Peyton is it? This entire convo started with Hurts who won with the #1 defense in the NFL. When Stafford won his ring he led the NFL in INTs. Basically anyone not named Brady or Mahomes falls into the "not elite" category. I might give some of them "above" average.

By every stat Mahomes was average last season but to you he is elite. Make it make sense.

Foles performs better than Mahomes in Super Bowls.

I literally posted just last week in this thread that Mahomes is average now. Scroll back and find it.

It is the fans who are reducing an entire 53 man roster and full coaching staff to - "the QB is good!" that need to make sense.

So he's back to elite now? You just said Mahomes is in the elite category.

[Jaydubb]

^^^ ALL OF THIS reduced down to "Foles beat everyone"

I mean... have you looked at Tom Brady's stats in that Super Bowl? Without Foles' ridiculous performance, the Eagles don't win that one.

BTW I was one of the earliest Eagles fans, i.e. back before Hurts was drafted, to say we probably don't win that one with Wentz either.

Yeah I mean, Nick foles has as many TD receptions in the Super Bowl as randy moss. And moss played in twice as many games! Could wentz put in a Randy moss type game? I don’t think so. The eagles needed Foles to win.