Walker Kessler, Jazz end extension talks, making him a restricted free agent in 2026

[babyjax13]

No way is Daniels worth more than Gobert and DDV.

What is your questions?

I think he is more valuable than both in a trade. Maybe not on court at this moment (Gobert is still really good, DDV is a nice rotation player who can start), but he is really good and improving, and he is defensively unique just as Rudy is.

Well for perspective - Gobert in our very own GB top 25 vote was elected in the top 26-35 players in NBA. No way does a top 35 player plus DDV not equal Daniels (who didn’t make the list - neither did Porzingis).

Before you jump in with a ‘who care about that list’ that list should serve for what it is. A source of personal reflection of one’s own value assessment in reflection of what the masses here believe. Not the Bible but a great North Star.

That doesn't necessarily correlate with trade value, though, and we don't actually know where Rudy would be placed if it continued (though I agree that he is definitely a top 40 player). I think a young, say, top-80 player who is improving can be more valuable in a trade than a top-40 player, and that is the case here. I don't actually think DDV makes a huge difference in that calculus. But multiple things can be true - Daniels can be more valuable in a vacuum, and Minnesota could be better off with Gobert and DDV (which they are).

[mg]

I only heard a minute of Kessler but he seemed a bit salty about the extension talks during media day. Something along the lines of being frustrated if it doesn't happen. Sounds like he will give his all for however long he's still in Utah. It certainly doesn't appear either side is married to each other.

[SlimShady83]

I only heard a minute of Kessler but he seemed a bit salty about the extension talks during media day. Something along the lines of being frustrated if it doesn't happen. Sounds like he will give his all for however long he's still in Utah. It certainly doesn't appear either side is married to each other.

Can you or anyone post this? I'll watch when home

[Doctor MJ]

As a different Jazz fan.

Your initial take is overblowing it imo, but I do think there's something there with Hardy seemingly wanting an offensively skilled big. I couldn't say Kessler has been prioritized among the Jazz young guys (Keyonte), despite being quite clearly the best young player to date. Certainly a bit worried about playing hardball with RFAs after Hayward clearly weighing it when he left (could Utah have been a real contender with Mitchell/Hayward/Gobert?).

But I'm less worried about it now than I was going into last season. Last season in particular Kessler got pretty good minutes when he suited up, and hopefully the FO is being clear with him whatever the plan is.

Overall, this rebuild has stunk.

I always appreciate your insight eminence, and especially on your team, and so I apologize for my pessimism.

I have to say though, if I'm Kessler, none of what you say would make me want to stay, and I'd say the same is true at this point toward everyone on the roster. Doing an extended tank will naturally do this to you, because the whole roster knows that your real priority is a player who isn't on the roster yet.

Doesn't mean it's not worth it if the ping pong ball bounces right, but you have to know you're killing the relationships with your actual players when you do this stuff.

The Jazz may be able to use RFA to re-sign Kessler, but going forward, I'd have zero loyalty to a team that had allowed me to become the talk of the league in my rookie year, only to tank harder the next two and seem to prioritize others over me.

Meanwhile the guy they ended up getting in the tank, Ace Bailey, probably isn't going to want to stay there long term no matter what happens.

I'm someone who said Ainge deserved EOY for the year in which he acquired Lauri & drafted Kessler while getting a ton of draft picks, but at this point, my guess is that the next time the Jazz are a contender, it won't have any of their '25-26 core on the roster.

It's crazy to me that someone can start out making such good moves, but then with the same mentality, ruin it within the span of two years.

I think restricted free agency is going to be so common with the new CBA that players feeling disrespected isn’t going to be as prominent as it once was. The CBA is forcing GM’s to all have to play hardball with the salary cap and the players aren’t stupid. Walker may want to get paid now but I’m sure he is fully aware that to build a competitive team the GM has to use available cap space to acquire other players. I guess it’s a risk the Jazz have in not resigning him now, but it’s the same problem all teams are now facing. And now that all teams are facing that situation it’s not going to be seen as such a slap in the face. Plus Walker being upset still means the Jazz are going to have him for years to come when he signs the next contract and who knows where the Jazz will be as a team once his next contract is coming up for an extension. Ideally they are a good team in 4-5 years and resigning is a no brainer. Or Walker is playing great and the Jazz move him in 2-4 years before his contract expires. Either way the Jazz will have control of Walker for years to come.

If Walker wasn’t a RFA I would be worried about this situation. I’m just not worried at the moment. We’re years and years away from it even potentially becoming an issue IMO.

Maybe I’m just being optimistic but I think I’m just being realistic.

To be clear, the original slap in the face was benching Kessler in his sophomore year so that the franchise could pursue new adventures in losing. The fact that after that they played hardball with Kessler would just make me want to burn the building down on top of that.

[sp6r=underrated]

I have strong priors to side with players in dispute with teams but don't have deep opinions on Kessler-Utah beyond a natural sympathy for any player who wants to get out of there. Ainge negotiates extremely hard to negotiate players' contracts down and then would trade any of these players to Pyongyang if it would improve their lottery odds. Playing for the Jazz is not in any young, non-potential top 5 player's interests.

At a higher level the current CBA is awful.

The current CBA is a de-facto hard salary cap due to the second apron. As a result management of excellent teams like the Celtics are gutting their roster. In addition, max individual salaries, RFA, Qualifying Offers, etc., ensure few players of any value reach unrestricted free agency and even when they do no one has cap space to sign them. It is a terrible system because doing anything feels difficult.

The current CBA reflects the owners wishes and I wish the owners would reflect on what they have done. It is basically impossible to improve your team through free agency, trades are extremely different and consequently a lot of teams have a malaise feeling because you're just depending on dumb luck in the lottery or an idiot GM (Nico).

It sucks. I hate hard caps but I'd much rather have a real hard cap if we got rid of QO/RFA/Max Individual Salaries. Under that scenario team could improve their roster through free agency and making trades would be easy.

[Wolveswin]

I think he is more valuable than both in a trade. Maybe not on court at this moment (Gobert is still really good, DDV is a nice rotation player who can start), but he is really good and improving, and he is defensively unique just as Rudy is.

Well for perspective - Gobert in our very own GB top 25 vote was elected in the top 26-35 players in NBA. No way does a top 35 player plus DDV not equal Daniels (who didn’t make the list - neither did Porzingis).

Before you jump in with a ‘who care about that list’ that list should serve for what it is. A source of personal reflection of one’s own value assessment in reflection of what the masses here believe. Not the Bible but a great North Star.

That doesn't necessarily correlate with trade value, though, and we don't actually know where Rudy would be placed if it continued (though I agree that he is definitely a top 40 player). I think a young, say, top-80 player who is improving can be more valuable in a trade than a top-40 player, and that is the case here. I don't actually think DDV makes a huge difference in that calculus. But multiple things can be true - Daniels can be more valuable in a vacuum, and Minnesota could be better off with Gobert and DDV (which they are).

Value isn’t in a vacuum however. Value is in the eyes of the parties negotiating it. In this scenario, Hawks need to value the upgrade that is Gobert from Porzingis. If they do, what value do they offer Wolves for their downgrade to Porzingis. Daniels is the player Wolves want as an upgrade. But if Daniels is too much value for Hawks - does DDV close that value gap. Hawks after all signed NAW who can backfill some of Daniels deliverables - DDV as combo close that gap for them?

[babyjax13]

Well for perspective - Gobert in our very own GB top 25 vote was elected in the top 26-35 players in NBA. No way does a top 35 player plus DDV not equal Daniels (who didn’t make the list - neither did Porzingis).

Before you jump in with a ‘who care about that list’ that list should serve for what it is. A source of personal reflection of one’s own value assessment in reflection of what the masses here believe. Not the Bible but a great North Star.

That doesn't necessarily correlate with trade value, though, and we don't actually know where Rudy would be placed if it continued (though I agree that he is definitely a top 40 player). I think a young, say, top-80 player who is improving can be more valuable in a trade than a top-40 player, and that is the case here. I don't actually think DDV makes a huge difference in that calculus. But multiple things can be true - Daniels can be more valuable in a vacuum, and Minnesota could be better off with Gobert and DDV (which they are).

Value isn’t in a vacuum however. Value is in the eyes of the parties negotiating it. In this scenario, Hawks need to value the upgrade that is Gobert from Porzingis. If they do, what value do they offer Wolves for their downgrade to Porzingis. Daniels is the player Wolves want as an upgrade. But if Daniels is too much value for Hawks - does DDV close that value gap. Hawks after all signed NAW who can backfill some of Daniels deliverables - DDV as combo close that gap for them?

Why do the Hawks need to upgrade? Porzingis is really good and they have Okongwu. They don't need a center.

[Wolveswin]

That doesn't necessarily correlate with trade value, though, and we don't actually know where Rudy would be placed if it continued (though I agree that he is definitely a top 40 player). I think a young, say, top-80 player who is improving can be more valuable in a trade than a top-40 player, and that is the case here. I don't actually think DDV makes a huge difference in that calculus. But multiple things can be true - Daniels can be more valuable in a vacuum, and Minnesota could be better off with Gobert and DDV (which they are).

Value isn’t in a vacuum however. Value is in the eyes of the parties negotiating it. In this scenario, Hawks need to value the upgrade that is Gobert from Porzingis. If they do, what value do they offer Wolves for their downgrade to Porzingis. Daniels is the player Wolves want as an upgrade. But if Daniels is too much value for Hawks - does DDV close that value gap. Hawks after all signed NAW who can backfill some of Daniels deliverables - DDV as combo close that gap for them?

Why do the Hawks need to upgrade? Porzingis is really good and they have Okongwu. They don't need a center.

That is up for Hawks to decide. If they loved Okongwu they wouldn’t have traded for Porzingis. So an upgrade was in order - is Porzingis enough.

[babyjax13]

To Hawks: Gobert/DDV
=More D at rim, more shooting, and NAW can backfill Daniels.

To Jazz: Dilly

To Wolves: Porzingis/Kessler/Daniels
=Really balances Wolves lineup. Kessler is insurance for Porzingis health concerns and battle Beringer as COF in MN.
Porzingis/Kessler/Beringer
Randle/Reid
McDaniels/Edwards
Edwards/TSJ/Daniels
Daniels/Conley/Bones

This trade is horrendously lopsided. At least be realistic.

Share your analysis lopsided for who?

To go back to this original proposal --

a) I don't think there is anything here for Atlanta, they don't need a center upgrade. If they thought they did, I like Gobert for them, but I have Daniels > Gobert + DDV in trade value. I also don't think Atlanta needs DDV at all.
b) Utah isn't trading Kessler for Dillingham. Dillingham is an undersized scoring guard and we've spent an offseason trying to purge those guys from the roster. We also have George who has some similar traits but is bigger and has shown more in the NBA. Minnesota is free to value Dillingham more - I doubt the NBA generally would, it was a very bad draft class and Dillingham didn't show much - but they also just drafted Beringer so they have someone to develop for that center role (we also drafted Clayton, I don't think Dillingham is a better prospect by a large margin).
c) I think Porzingis has real value. The framing of "he is worth Niang and 2nds" is a bit off - the big value for Boston was actually reducing their tax. If they didn't need to do that there is no way they'd accept that little value. Atlanta capitalized off a team that needed to reduce salaries and as a result they have an awesome center rotation

That's my take on the trade, I think Minnesota is stealing a lot of value.

[Broadcaster]

That wasn’t my question. Is Daniels have more value than Gobert AND DDV?

I’d still say yes. Now try responding to me.

No way is Daniels worth more than Gobert and DDV.

What is your questions?

Rudy is 33. Dyson is 22. Yes Dyson is the most valuable.

My question is: can you take a second to recognize that your trade is trash and that if you were Atlanta you would get laughed off the phone?

[Wolveswin]

I’d still say yes. Now try responding to me.

No way is Daniels worth more than Gobert and DDV.

What is your questions?

Rudy is 33. Dyson is 22. Yes Dyson is the most valuable.

My question is: can you take a second to recognize that your trade is trash and that if you were Atlanta you would get laughed off the phone?

Can you take a second to recognize if Hawks wanted Gobert (not saying they do) would need Porzingis+ from Hawks. That is a no brainer, yes?

[Broadcaster]

No way is Daniels worth more than Gobert and DDV.

What is your questions?

Rudy is 33. Dyson is 22. Yes Dyson is the most valuable.

My question is: can you take a second to recognize that your trade is trash and that if you were Atlanta you would get laughed off the phone?

Can you take a second to recognize if Hawks wanted Gobert (not saying they do) would need Porzingis+ from Hawks. That is a no brainer, yes?

If they don’t want Gobert (hint: they don’t) isn’t this whole thing moot? You also still fully avoided my question.

[Catchall]

I only heard a minute of Kessler but he seemed a bit salty about the extension talks during media day. Something along the lines of being frustrated if it doesn't happen. Sounds like he will give his all for however long he's still in Utah. It certainly doesn't appear either side is married to each other.

Can you or anyone post this? I'll watch when home

Read on Twitter

[Mavrelous]

I'm eating a crow over praising Ainge dismantling of the Jazz core in 22, what he followed with was an abject disaster...

[Indomitable]

Would rather wait for Lively

[Indomitable]

That doesn't necessarily correlate with trade value, though, and we don't actually know where Rudy would be placed if it continued (though I agree that he is definitely a top 40 player). I think a young, say, top-80 player who is improving can be more valuable in a trade than a top-40 player, and that is the case here. I don't actually think DDV makes a huge difference in that calculus. But multiple things can be true - Daniels can be more valuable in a vacuum, and Minnesota could be better off with Gobert and DDV (which they are).

Value isn’t in a vacuum however. Value is in the eyes of the parties negotiating it. In this scenario, Hawks need to value the upgrade that is Gobert from Porzingis. If they do, what value do they offer Wolves for their downgrade to Porzingis. Daniels is the player Wolves want as an upgrade. But if Daniels is too much value for Hawks - does DDV close that value gap. Hawks after all signed NAW who can backfill some of Daniels deliverables - DDV as combo close that gap for them?

Why do the Hawks need to upgrade? Porzingis is really good and they have Okongwu. They don't need a center.

Porzingus in a bubble is but Gorbert does nothing for Atlanta.

The man has hands of stone. Porzingus if healthy is the the more well rounded player.

[Catchall]

With Kessler, there may be some debate about what a rim-protecting, rim-running center is worth. The Jazz moved on from Gobert in large part because Ainge didn't think that type of player should be maxed or near-maxed. Jarrett Allen might be one comparable, and his second contract has been at $20M/year for 5 years. He now has an extension at an average of $30M/year that will kick in a year from now. Myles Turner is at $25M/year as a big that can space the floor as well as defend the rim.

The Jazz front office is also largely from Boston. They like 5s who can play out on the perimeter to space the floor on offense, guys like Horford and Porzingis.

I think the Jazz would readily give Walker $20M/year, and I think Walker's camp wants closer to $30M. The Jazz will see if the market gives Walker that kind of deal. If he gets it, the Jazz will likely match, unless they end up drafting someone like Chris Cenac. In the meantime, the Jazz maintain some more cap flexibility, currently around $14M in extra space. The new apron rules really punish teams for overpaying their 4th and 5th best players.

As a restricted free agent, Walker doesn't have much leverage to force a deal. That said, restricted free agency will allow another team to dictate years and a player option, which the Jazz must be willing to concede. It can also dampen the relationship with Walker as a player though, something the Jazz experienced when they did the same with Gordon Hayward.

[SlimShady83]

I'm eating a crow over praising Ainge dismantling of the Jazz core in 22, what he followed with was an abject disaster...

I remember reading something somewhere, that Ainges only job is to get rid of everyone on longterm, so they start from scratch - only reason they haven't traded Kessler and Lauri away is because Kessler's asking price is too high (young player and 2 firsts) and Luari because contract is too large, give it time and i'm sure both be will gone, sorry Utah fans is what it is.

It's the reason I've been saying all along eventually Utah will trade both.

[Catchall]

I'm eating a crow over praising Ainge dismantling of the Jazz core in 22, what he followed with was an abject disaster...

I remember reading something somewhere, that Ainges only job is to get rid of everyone on longterm, so they start from scratch - only reason they haven't traded Kessler and Lauri away is because Kessler's asking price is too high (young player and 2 firsts) and Luari because contract is too large, give it time and i'm sure both will gone, sorry Utah fans is what it is.

It's the reason I've been saying all along eventually Utah will trade both.

Jazz won't move Walker unless they have something better lined up. They also have a scenario where they'll keep Lauri to play next to Ace Bailey and next year's star rookie. Sorry, Lakers fan.

[SlimShady83]

I'm eating a crow over praising Ainge dismantling of the Jazz core in 22, what he followed with was an abject disaster...

I remember reading something somewhere, that Ainges only job is to get rid of everyone on longterm, so they start from scratch - only reason they haven't traded Kessler and Lauri away is because Kessler's asking price is too high (young player and 2 firsts) and Luari because contract is too large, give it time and i'm sure both will gone, sorry Utah fans is what it is.

It's the reason I've been saying all along eventually Utah will trade both.

Jazz won't move Walker unless they have something better lined up. They also have a scenario where they'll keep Lauri to play next to Ace Bailey and next year's star rookie. Sorry, Lakers fan.

Heard it b4 we'll see in time, and wouldn't say sorry to Laker fans