Tre Johnson: welcome to the DMV

[doclinkin]

Shrug. I’d characterize it differently. Seems to me one group says ‘wait til we aren’t forced to lose before we judge’ and the other says ‘yeah but we are no good’.

But the majority of the critique on the front office is over one significant trade that early on has looked better for the other party than it has for the Wiz. Even there you have one camp still saying wait and see while the other posts weepy emojis and headbang emoji’s whenever the former player has a good game. If I’m seeing stats posted on this page I personally prefer to read the numbers about the guys who are actually on the team. Or post them in support of the argument that says hey, the guys we got may not be as bad as you think. If. If. Young players get opportunities to grow up.

Thing is this team has never fully committed to a rebuild so we’ve gotten used to quick fixes and patch jobs that distract from the losing by ensuring mediocrity. Meanwhile there’s no arguing the point that we suck. The only question is whether the purposeful intentional suck will lead anywhere. You can find signs that say yes. Or you can say you’ll believe it when you see it. Both stances are valid.

[dckingsfan]

Yep, not how I see it at all. Some haven't liked the signings. Some haven't been enthralled by the picks. Yes, there was the trade. At the same time the rebuild started in earnest. This FO has pushed to get the team younger and play the youngsters. They have been really solid on acquiring draft assets.

Good and bad... and many have argued both sides of this. It is fine for folks to have opinions on certain transactions both positive and negative.

That we are young and suck is just what it is... it should be fine to say it. That it may lead somewhere or not - fine to speculate without the "you remember when... Beal... ankle biting. Smh.

[payitforward]

Who the H$ll knows if any of these kid will be good?

But... this is a fan forum, so the tilt is (& surely should be) towards the positive -- above all when we are early in a total draft-based rebuilding adventure.

It's not possible for Will Dawkins to be perfect -- & he himself has said "we'll make mistakes."
Maybe he already has... but the way he's going about things is the way I'd want him to go about things -- that's for sure.

A good self-corrective is to recall how critical of the Beal trade many people here were. Turns out it was a great deal.

Then you can recall how critical everyone was of trading Chris Paul for Poole, etcetera. Yet, Chris Paul stayed a year with GS & then left -- the Warriors got nothing at all, literally zero, for him. Presumably, we'd have had the same outcome.

It was equally ridiculous -- to me at least -- for posters to complain that we too Bilal instead of Jaime Jaquez in the '23 draft -- when the ten teams that picked after us also passed on him!

Winger & Dawkins have a clearly-stated goal to become a top-level franchise that sustains itself from year to year -- a franchise like Golden State or Boston. I don't know if we'll get there; it ain't easy. But they've been doing the right kinds of things. It's a long haul, but we have a shot.

[payitforward]

...That we are young and suck is just what it is... it should be fine to say it....

Sure.

...That it may lead somewhere or not - fine to speculate without the "you remember when... Beal... ankle biting. Smh.

Sure.

But but but you're leaving something out. Something important.
It was a major decision, a complete reorientation, a down to the roots change for this team to decisively & totally commit to a total rebuild.

So that decision itself, that change itself, is part -- the single most important part -- of what one should either applaud or regret.

If you applaud that change (as I am pretty sure you do!), then I'm sorry but you'll have to take the rest of the uncertainties as part of the package; they were, & still are, inevitable. Central to that decision & that change. You can worry about the uncertainties, but you can't complain that they exist or criticize management for increasing uncertainty!

Thus...

I don't know how Bilal will work out. But, i haven't read a single reasonable argument here that we should have taken someone else.
I don't know how Sarr will work out. But, i haven't read a single reasonable argument here that we should have taken someone else.
I don't know how Kyshawn will work out. But, i haven't read a single reasonable argument here that we should have taken someone else.
I don't know how Tre will work out. But, i haven't read a single reasonable argument here that we should have taken someone else.
I don't know how Riley will work out. But, i haven't read a single reasonable argument here that we should have taken someone else.
I don't know how Watkins will work out. But, i haven't read a single reasonable argument here that we should have taken someone else.
I don't know how AJ will work out. But, i haven't read a single reasonable argument here that we shouldn't have acquired him in the Kuz trade.
I don't know how Cam will work out. But, i haven't read a single reasonable argumenthere that we shouldn't have acquired him for a pair of future R2 picks.

Nor have i read a single reasonable argument that we shouldn't have traded Jordan for McCollum etc.

The only rational objections I've seen are to the trade of Deni. Period. & in that case the objections I've seen all assume that we could have predicted his '24-25 breakout. I think nate has a legitimate right to that position, but I don't recall a single other person here predicting it. I could be wrong, but... I really don't think so.

In short, things are uncertain. Because we are engaged in a major reorientation of the entire franchise. ok by me!

[DCZards]

That we are young and suck is just what it is... it should be fine to say it. That it may lead somewhere or not - fine to speculate without the "you remember when... Beal... ankle biting. Smh.

Oh, please!

[payitforward]

It's all just late off season nervousness... tempest in a teapot kind of stuff.

Soon we'll have basketball to attend to!

Won't that be great?

[DCZards]

I’ve had enough of this.

Hopefully, I won’t be back for a year or so. At that point, if there is some reason for me to eat crow, I’ll do so.

However, the odds are all the first rounders of this front office will still be awful nba players.

Beal & Porter were “busts” on this board after their first and/or second seasons. That’s why I can only laugh when some posters here have already decided that Bub, Sarr, George, and Bilal are “awful” players with no hope of getting better.

[payitforward]

Zards: No one knows what the future will bring. But it seems better to think of it with hope & a picture of achievable success than it does to write it off the way this poster does. To me his attitude seems bitter & brittle; if anything, it makes me feel bad for him.

Go Wizards!

[doclinkin]

The only rational objections I've seen are to the trade of Deni. Period. & in that case the objections I've seen all assume that we could have predicted his '24-25 breakout. I think nate has a legitimate right to that position, but I don't recall a single other person here predicting it. I could be wrong, but... I really don't think so.

And even that. Nate made a strong enough case that many were convinced. Many were hopeful that Deni had turned a corner. The advanced defensive stats had always been good for him. I know my instant reaction to the trade was rage and disappointment.

BUT if we had Deni there is a significantly better than zero chance we would have lost a draft pick, if not last year than this one upcoming. We still could, but overall the question is whether we would have been better off with Deni and without one or the other of Tre or the 2026 pick.

Given that this is the Tre thread I won't delve too deeply into the Deni stuff. I do think however that the play of Tre this year may take the sting out of the trade. Especially if the kid outplays some of the guys who were selected ahead of him. If we had Deni we would likely not have had the pick that ended up being Tre. Could be Cooper or Harper, could be Fears or Demin, but probably our record would not have been identical. We fell to the worst pick we could have in the draft, but may have lucked out. It will be nice if we can look back and say it worked out for the best. The early peek we got at Tre suggests this kid is a player in this league.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Tre will be the youngest player on our team. A month younger than Will Riley. He instantly looked comfortable out there. The knock on him in college was that he may have been a selfish gunner and not a playmaker, but we saw him showing chemistry and nice recognition with his teammates in summer league. I think he will show himself as a strong early candidate for rookie of the year. Ball handling guards tend to have an edge on other players in this award since they can make their own numbers.

So his play this year will help us answer the question if it was worth it to trade away a good player for a few chances at a better player. And if Bub takes significant steps forward then that makes the case even stronger.

[dckingsfan]

...That we are young and suck is just what it is... it should be fine to say it....

Sure.

...That it may lead somewhere or not - fine to speculate without the "you remember when... Beal... ankle biting. Smh.

Sure.

But but but you're leaving something out. Something important.
It was a major decision, a complete reorientation, a down to the roots change for this team to decisively & totally commit to a total rebuild.

Violent agreement. You left out the part when I (and many others) also pointed this out...

Disagreeing with some of the moves ≠ disagreeing with the overall strategy. I also pointed out that this is n-game theory. So, you have to have a good strategy AND execute AND get lucky.

But "you remember when..." if you question any of the execution

[AFM]

all I know is we drafted TRE JOHNSON aka the 2026 NBA ROTY aka the rookie PPG leader aka future perennial all star. And we're pairing him with The Bordeaux Beast. Basically the new Shaq and Penny. What is there to complain about?

[montestewart]

all I know is we drafted TRE JOHNSON aka the 2026 NBA ROTY aka the rookie PPG leader aka future perennial all star. And we're pairing him with The Bordeaux Beast. Basically the new Shaq and Penny. What is there to complain about?

So one gets injured and the other goes to LA as a free agent?

[payitforward]

...It was a major decision, a complete reorientation, a down to the roots change for this team to decisively & totally commit to a total rebuild.

Violent agreement...

Disagreeing with some of the moves ≠ disagreeing with the overall strategy....[/quote
Only problem is... other than the Deni trade, I am still waiting for one sensible, concrete disagreement with any of "the moves."

E.g. someone writing that, "gee, we shoulda took Jaime Jaquez instead of Bilal" is doing no more than exhibiting incomprehension: the next ten GMs to pick also didn't take Jaime!

...I also pointed out that this is n-game theory. So, you have to have a good strategy AND execute AND get lucky. ...

Yes, but since you agree with the strategy & are perspicacious enough to understand that "luck" is by definition out of our control, this once again reduces to criticizing the draft picks.

To take a neutral example, the fact that Jimmy Butler turned out to be better than Tobias Harris is not a sound basis for criticizing the pick of Harris at #19.

I haven't read a single critique of what Will has done that makes the slightest sense at all with the one exception of his decision to trade Deni.

The critiques of the Beal trade were ridiculous.
The criticism of trading CP3 for Poole made no sense at all.
etc....

[closg00]

May have been posted already...

Watch on YouTube

[dckingsfan]

...It was a major decision, a complete reorientation, a down to the roots change for this team to decisively & totally commit to a total rebuild.

Violent agreement...

Disagreeing with some of the moves ≠ disagreeing with the overall strategy....[/quote
Only problem is... other than the Deni trade, I am still waiting for one sensible, concrete disagreement with any of "the moves."

E.g. someone writing that, "gee, we shoulda took Jaime Jaquez instead of Bilal" is doing no more than exhibiting incomprehension: the next ten GMs to pick also didn't take Jaime!

...I also pointed out that this is n-game theory. So, you have to have a good strategy AND execute AND get lucky. ...

Yes, but since you agree with the strategy & are perspicacious enough to understand that "luck" is by definition out of our control, this once again reduces to criticizing the draft picks.

To take a neutral example, the fact that Jimmy Butler turned out to be better than Tobias Harris is not a sound basis for criticizing the pick of Harris at #19.

I haven't read a single critique of what Will has done that makes the slightest sense at all with the one exception of his decision to trade Deni.

The critiques of the Beal trade were ridiculous.
The criticism of trading CP3 for Poole made no sense at all.
etc....

I have made a couple. One, I thought the Kuz and Kispert signings were bad (that worries me). Two, I think the "huge" tank isn't the best strategy in this new CBA/Draft, I think you want to be mildly bad and hope for a top 4 pick. I didn't agree with trading to get multiple picks in a weak draft. But I like what Dawkins has done much more that I dislike what he has done. I think he has outperformed all the bottom dwelling eastern teams.

One more thing - I think he has respect around the league. I think this is going to be very important, why? Because I believe that Free Agents that wouldn't have considered us in the past will in this next go-around.

But here is what I don't want to do, a specific analysis of why you think every move has been awesome and the signings, picks and trades have been flawless and can't be criticized. Well, you can - but I won't join you in that particularly crowded rabbit hole.

What did make me laugh was using perspicacious. The last time I heard that was from my managing professor when he told me I was anything but... and told me to get out of academia

[doclinkin]

It’s only crowded cause I’m a pretty big rabbit.

[dckingsfan]

It’s only crowded cause I’m a pretty big rabbit.

How do you type... always a puzzle to me unless you are a magic rabbit!

[doclinkin]

Fast nose wiggle.

[payitforward]

...I thought the Kuz and Kispert signings were bad...

We got excellent value for Kuzma, given what a bad player he is (tho a good guy & a generous person as well). Would you have let him walk instead?

...I think the "huge" tank isn't the best strategy in this new CBA/Draft, I think you want to be mildly bad and hope for a top 4 pick....

First off, "hope" is not a strategy. No complex undertaking can be based on hope.

...here is what I don't want to do, a specific analysis of why you think every move has been awesome and the signings, picks and trades have been flawless and can't be criticized. Well, you can - but I won't join you in that particularly crowded rabbit hole....

Can't blame you! In any case, I don't hold such a single-minded view.

...What did make me laugh was using perspicacious. The last time I heard that was from my managing professor when he told me I was anything but... and told me to get out of academia

But...as is so often the case your professor was incorrect.
You are quite a perspicacious individual. You look at things & have a good ability to understand them right off.

[dckingsfan]

...I thought the Kuz and Kispert signings were bad...

We got excellent value for Kuzma, given what a bad player he is (tho a good guy & a generous person as well). Would you have let him walk instead?

...I think the "huge" tank isn't the best strategy in this new CBA/Draft, I think you want to be mildly bad and hope for a top 4 pick....

First off, "hope" is not a strategy. No complex undertaking can be based on hope.

...here is what I don't want to do, a specific analysis of why you think every move has been awesome and the signings, picks and trades have been flawless and can't be criticized. Well, you can - but I won't join you in that particularly crowded rabbit hole....

Can't blame you! In any case, I don't hold such a single-minded view.

...What did make me laugh was using perspicacious. The last time I heard that was from my managing professor when he told me I was anything but... and told me to get out of academia

But...as is so often the case your professor was incorrect.
You are quite a perspicacious individual. You look at things & have a good ability to understand them right off.

Did you just break this down line by line... sigh

Kuz and Kispert were bad signings because of where the cap situation was for other teams. There was a high probability that with open cap space we could have done better deals at the last trade deadline. It also shows a trend for thinking some players aren't as good as this FO thinks (Poole, Kuz, Kispert). Was it a disaster, no. Was it optimal, no. That is the problem when you are bad and playing n-game theory.

And yes, the "huge tank" is a tactic that supports their strategy. I think their strategy is a bit off in this regards (same with the signings) given how the draft now works and the current CBO.

BTW, best thing my managing professor could do was get me out in the free market. I did much, much better there...