Game 4: Packers at Cowboys - 9/28/25 - 7:20 - NBC

[RRyder823]

Im calling BS on this point.

Who is saying MLF is above criticism?

The things you have a hard time seeing is just because a coach has a fault or has had bad moments it doesn't automatically mean hes not a good coach and that 98% of the **** you talk about coaches you can say about pretty much every coach ever.

There's not a coach in the league that would pass your purity test. That's why you get called out on it



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Who is saying MLF is above criticism?

The people who can only respond with snarky comments.

Don't just call me Helen Keller. Explain why I am wrong about MLF being a bad coach. Sell me on why he is a good coach if you disagree with me.

That's why we are here, right? For debate and discussion. Not to get butt hurt and emotional every time someone says something that you disagree with like our guy Twirl up there.

And you guys absolutely would be having a field day if everything was the same but it was the Bear's coached by MLF Sunday night. Don't be disingenuous...lol.

And my criticisms of MLF are based on everything I have seen from MLF since 2019. I am not basing anything just off of Sunday night or the Browns game.


There's not a coach in the league that would pass your purity test. That's why you get called out on it

To be fair.

Ray Rhodes
Mike Sherman
Mike McCarthy
Matt Lafleur

Have been the Packer's coaches since 1998. I dare you to sell me on even 1 of those 4 guys being a great NFL head coach.

When the organization tells the fan base It's all about Super Bowls in Green Bay and then those are the 4 head coaches they trot out there over 27 year period, I am going to hold them to the standard that the organization put out there for itself.

If the organization said It's all about winning a playoff game every 2 or 3 years I would say MLF is fine for the standard you set.

There are numerous ways he's a good coach. Ill name a few

1)His work with QBs is astounding
-Matt Ryan's QB coach during his MVP season
-immediately turned Rodgers back into an MVP QB after several years of being just good
-developed Love into a top 10 QB by nearly all advanced metrics

2)is widely regarded as one of the best offensive play designers & play callers in the NFL

3)His team doesn't quit in games(numerous 4th quarter comebacks) or in a season(huge turnaround in 2023)

4)Not afraid to make changes when he deems necessary and isnt content at just being good(fired guys like Pettine, Mennenga, & Barry after deep playoff runs), fired Drayton after only one season

5)Has dealt with off field issues masterfully, incidents with Rodgers, Doubs, Jaire(just to name a few) didn't linger and the team as a whole was able to move forward

Now that's not to say he's perfect. In the last 2 years he's gone from being one of the most aggressive coaches in the NFL to one of the most conservative, that's an issue. I'm not sure he's actually good at hiring coordinators since Hafley seems to be the only good one he's hired. But overall his strengths significantly outweigh his weaknesses imo

In general when fans watch the same coach over & over again they tend to notice the flaws in that guy moreso than other coaches around the NFL, and then think they can hire a guy to come in and fix those flaws while keeping the same strengths. But every coach has flaws so if we moved on from MLF we are likely to get worse in areas where MLF has proven to be very good at

To add on......

A .670 winning percentage with 69-34-1 record

5 PO appeared in 7 seasons

2 NFC Championship games

1st coach to have a 13 win season 3 consecutive seasons (that one actually suprised me)

Coached the youngest team in league history to a PO win

He's not a perfect coach as has been pointed out but acting like hes some average coach or like he sucks as Rileman would pretend is kinda idiotic

And this one's for you Rileman. MM wasn't always a bad coach. The game passed him by and he became one yes but there was in fact a time he was an damn good (as evidence by ya know the SB victory). The thing that you miss when bringing him up to "prove" your point is that coaches (like players) can in fact get worse over time if they aren't capable of adapting and continuing to do so

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[trwi7]

Don't just call me Helen Keller. Explain why I am wrong about MLF being a bad coach.

You would get a lot more benefit of the doubt if you didn't say every coach of all of your favorite teams was an idiot all the time and have that be your #1 go to every time.

[th87]

Im calling BS on this point.

Who is saying MLF is above criticism?

The things you have a hard time seeing is just because a coach has a fault or has had bad moments it doesn't automatically mean hes not a good coach and that 98% of the **** you talk about coaches you can say about pretty much every coach ever.

There's not a coach in the league that would pass your purity test. That's why you get called out on it



Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Who is saying MLF is above criticism?

The people who can only respond with snarky comments.

Don't just call me Helen Keller. Explain why I am wrong about MLF being a bad coach. Sell me on why he is a good coach if you disagree with me.

That's why we are here, right? For debate and discussion. Not to get butt hurt and emotional every time someone says something that you disagree with like our guy Twirl up there.

And you guys absolutely would be having a field day with MLF that were the Bears playing the Cowboys Sunday night.

And my criticisms of MLF are based on everything I have seen from since 2019. I am not basing anything just off of Sunday night or the Browns game.


There's not a coach in the league that would pass your purity test. That's why you get called out on it

To be fair.

Ray Rhodes
Mike Sherman
Mike McCarthy
Matt Lafleur

Have been the Packer's coaches since 1998. I dare you to sell me on even 1 of those 4 guys being a great NFL head coach.

When the organization tells the fan base It's all about Super Bowls in Green Bay and then those are the 4 head coaches they trot out there over 27 year period, I am going to hold them to the standard that the organization put out there for itself.

If the organization said It's all about winning a playoff game every 2 or 3 years I would say MLF is fine for the standard you set.

Okay, I’ll just speak for myself here. The problem with your logic is that you see things in black and white, right or wrong, good or bad. Just because I don’t agree with your take on a coach or player doesn’t mean I think they’re flawless. What I’m saying is people are complex, the sum of their parts, not just their arm, brain, or heart. Writing someone off entirely is basically the same thing you accuse Twirl of: getting butthurt and emotional and falling into rigid, binary takes.

And if we take the view that sports are more about the journey than the destination, then maybe there’s more joy in riding the ups and downs of a season than in hammering every misstep. It leads to deeper conversation, fewer hot takes, and (at least for me) a more satisfying experience as a fan.

I’m not trying to pigeonhole you; you’re far from the only one who does this, and I’ve fallen into it myself plenty of times. I just wanted to offer another lens on how we talk about this stuff.

A lot of us may not like to hear it, but rilamann's contrarian takes do end up correct more often than not. The 2023 Bucks were actually frauds. Budenholzer did get figured out. The mental toughness aspect of sports do matter, and the coach does factor into how players show up (e.g. McCarthy vs. Campbell). Rodgers does appear to have weird yips/phobias if facing certain teams but not others (even if they're of equal quality), and he agreed with my hot take that he had a mental block when it came to beating/putting away a favorite he's "afraid" of (he'll get close, but not over the hump).

Look through his history, and I'm sure it's full of unpopular "overarching" big-picture takes that were ultimately correct (with some misses on individual games/performances).

The only major whiff I recall is that MM would never win a SB. But even that is kind of owed to Rodgers leveling up in the second half of 2010, and it still required some lucky bounces to sneak into the playoffs, a Bishop game-saving tackle on Desean Jackson, almost losing to Caleb freaking Hanie, and almost blowing a 21 point lead in the SB.

Some people do enjoy being pessimistic fans, expecting team idiocy and incompetence, and then being pleasantly surprised. It seems this approach is not popular on sports boards, but I personally like seeing the balance.

With that said, I still believe in MLF. Anybody who can get 40+ TDs a season out of 40 yo Rodgers knows what he's doing. He needs to be more ruthless with his incompetent assistants, and seemingly needs to handle his emotions better, but being a young guy, maybe he has upside on the maturity front. Holmgren, Reid (who people similarly criticized), Belichick were much older when they were peak successful.

[paulpressey25]

Only one team wins a superbowl or an nba title.

If your hot take is your coach is bad based on that standard you’ll literally almost always be “right” in your assessment.

[th87]

Only one team wins a superbowl or an nba title.

If your hot take is your coach is bad based on that standard you’ll literally almost always be “right” in your assessment.

True, but that wasn't the standard advanced.

[RRyder823]

Only one team wins a superbowl or an nba title.

If your hot take is your coach is bad based on that standard you’ll literally almost always be “right” in your assessment.

True, but that wasn't the standard advanced.

That is Rialmans standard. Actually for him its more in the area of "Must win multiple championships and if theres more then one year in between they bad" since we've seen him still say the championship winning coach sucks and has always sucked

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[paulpressey25]

We debate coaching moves here because it’s the immediate byproduct of watching a game and the game threads. All good.

But we neglect discussing GM moves in these threads. It’s a more important factor than coaching.