Justin Champagnie, & it's about time!

[AFM]

Watch on YouTube

[payitforward]

https://dailyknicks.com/knicks-have-a-perfect-trade-target-hiding-in-plain-sight-01k57cwg4r1x

The word is out. But... we are not going to trade Justin.

[nate33]

https://dailyknicks.com/knicks-have-a-perfect-trade-target-hiding-in-plain-sight-01k57cwg4r1x

The word is out. But... we are not going to trade Justin.

It's a trade similar to one I posted a while ago. It's basically Champagnie for full control of our 2026 FRP back, only they're also talking about including Pacome Dadiet - the 24th pick in the 2024 draft.

It's a trade well worth considering if one assumes Champagnie will have trouble finding minutes while we are trying to develop Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore (and Riley) at the same position. Champagnie is really good and locked into a cheap deal, but his trade value is probably going to drop as he gets closer and closer to the end of his contract. We should consider selling high on him right now since we want to tank anyway.

One hiccup relates to what David Aldridge reported a while ago about our 2026 pick. He said we lose the rights to the Phoenix swap if we make a deal with New York to gain full control of the pick. That makes sense because us picking 9th or later was not possible at the time Phoenix agreed to the initial swap deal, so Phoenix shouldn't be penalized if we make a subsequent deal that incurs more downside risk to Phoenix.

But what I'd like to know is: if we make the Knicks deal to gain full control of our pick and still suck this year and end up picking somewhere in the 1-8 range, do we maintain our Phoenix swap rights? In that scenario, the Knicks deal would ultimately be irrelevant to the status of our pick, and it seems to me that our Phoenix swap rights should stand.

[doclinkin]

I would expect so. Since the trigger on everything is the lottery. They traded the swap for a lotto protected 1-8 pick. The lotto is the determining factor.

[payitforward]

All interesting stuff, but I really can't see us playing well enough to lose our pick.

Admittedly, however, given the swap & where Phoenix is as a team, there's a lot at stake here!

[payitforward]

Fun video about the Champagnie twins:

Watch on YouTube

[payitforward]

Just a quick reminder...

Watch on YouTube

[dckingsfan]

Yeah, I hope he doesn't have to sit because we are avoiding a couple more wins.

[payitforward]

I don't anticipate any big jump in wins.
(which probably means we'll start the season 7-3... )

[doclinkin]

Yeah, I hope he doesn't have to sit because we are avoiding a couple more wins.

I think he'll have to sit at times because we have literally 10 other players who play the same position.

Khris
Kyshawn
Bilal
Cam
Kispert
Riley
Watkins
Gill
Pierre
Dillon Jones

Granted they won't all make the team. Some will be in the G league. But if this year is still more about evaluating talent and getting developmental minutes than it is about chemistry and learning to win. Well, we know what JC can do, and there's not a lot about his game that needs deeper evaluation. Plus he's locked into a contract, no extension needed. Unless we are dangling him for trades (hope not) then I'm fine with playing him in a bench role as a hustle player we can inject as needed.

We will play Khris and possibly Corey to incite interest around the league. Bilal and Cam will be fire-tested and compared in advance of their possible contract extensions. I think those four may be ahead of JC early in the season. Maybe Corey and Champagnie will vie for time. After a trade I bet JC gets more play though. Hopefully he's not included in that trade.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah, I hope he doesn't have to sit because we are avoiding a couple more wins.

I think he'll have to sit at times because we have literally 10 other players who play the same position.

Khris
Kyshawn
Bilal
Cam
Kispert
Riley
Watkins
Gill
Pierre
Dillon Jones

Granted they won't all make the team. Some will be in the G league. But if this year is still more about evaluating talent and getting developmental minutes than it is about chemistry and learning to win. Well, we know what JC can do, and there's not a lot about his game that needs deeper evaluation. Plus he's locked into a contract, no extension needed. Unless we are dangling him for trades (hope not) then I'm fine with playing him in a bench role as a hustle player we can inject as needed.

We will play Khris and possibly Corey to incite interest around the league. Bilal and Cam will be fire-tested and compared in advance of their possible contract extensions. I think those four may be ahead of JC early in the season. Maybe Corey and Champagnie will vie for time. After a trade I bet JC gets more play though. Hopefully he's not included in that trade.

I don't agree with this thinking. I think you play the best players you have to let them continue to develop. Champagnie is one of the best players we have - he should get meaningful minutes. Let the young players beat him out - lest they become entitled.

[dckingsfan]

I don't anticipate any big jump in wins.
(which probably means we'll start the season 7-3... )

We win the NBA championship and moan about player development

[payitforward]

Yeah, I hope he doesn't have to sit because we are avoiding a couple more wins.

I think he'll have to sit at times because we have literally 10 other players who play the same position.

Khris
Kyshawn
Bilal
Cam
Kispert
Riley
Watkins
Gill
Pierre
Dillon Jones

Granted they won't all make the team. Some will be in the G league. But if this year is still more about evaluating talent and getting developmental minutes than it is about chemistry and learning to win. Well, we know what JC can do, and there's not a lot about his game that needs deeper evaluation. Plus he's locked into a contract, no extension needed. Unless we are dangling him for trades (hope not) then I'm fine with playing him in a bench role as a hustle player we can inject as needed.

We will play Khris and possibly Corey to incite interest around the league. Bilal and Cam will be fire-tested and compared in advance of their possible contract extensions. I think those four may be ahead of JC early in the season. Maybe Corey and Champagnie will vie for time. After a trade I bet JC gets more play though. Hopefully he's not included in that trade.

I don't agree with this thinking. I think you play the best players you have to let them continue to develop. Champagnie is one of the best players we have - he should get meaningful minutes. Let the young players beat him out - lest they become entitled.

Agreed. Not to mention that JC is a young player. Turned 24 over the Summer. Plus, Justin is a strong enough rebounder & a good enough defender that he can hold down the 4 spot for you. You can put him on the floor w/ another wing.

[doclinkin]

Yeah, I hope he doesn't have to sit because we are avoiding a couple more wins.

I think he'll have to sit at times because we have literally 10 other players who play the same position.

Khris
Kyshawn
Bilal
Cam
Kispert
Riley
Watkins
Gill
Pierre
Dillon Jones

Granted they won't all make the team. Some will be in the G league. But if this year is still more about evaluating talent and getting developmental minutes than it is about chemistry and learning to win. Well, we know what JC can do, and there's not a lot about his game that needs deeper evaluation. Plus he's locked into a contract, no extension needed. Unless we are dangling him for trades (hope not) then I'm fine with playing him in a bench role as a hustle player we can inject as needed.

I don't agree with this thinking. I think you play the best players you have to let them continue to develop. Champagnie is one of the best players we have - he should get meaningful minutes. Let the young players beat him out - lest they become entitled.

Agreed on everyone below Kispert on that list. ^^^ They’ll get GoGo time.

He’s more efficient than Bilal or Cam. You think he’ll play ahead of them? I don’t. I think when healthy Bilal is our starter at 3/4.

I’d bet they firetest Cam to build his confidence and try him out in various lines to see what works. We already know JC works in any number of lines because he does rebound. Cam is more volatile. More of a threat to explode for high output scoring. And possibly more of a risk to fade if not fed possessions. His contract is due sooner. They will give him many looks especially with Bilal out.

JC won’t displace a healthy Middleton. Khris is probably our best player and best trade prospect alike.

So the only question in my head is if Kispert figures into their long term plans or if they want to spotlight him to listen for offers. If so, he earns more minutes than JC early. Except that Bilal is out and we need boards and front court players.

[nate33]

For the most part, we are 2-deep at each position, except we have one too many forwards:

PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre, Kispert
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie
PF Kyshawn, Whitmore
C Sarr, Bagley

As long as one of our forwards is always hurt, the rotation makes pretty good sense. But when everyone is healthy, one among Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn and Whitmore will be the odd man out. Or maybe one of them moves to SG and bumps Kispert out of the rotation.

My guess is that Champagnie will be the odd man out if everyone is healthy - due to his age and salary. But I don't expect the condition to last for too long. If we go an extended period of time with all those forwards playing well and fighting for minutes, I expect one of Kispert or Middleton to be traded to make room.

Ultimately, I don't really think it will be a problem because we will have injuries.

[dckingsfan]

For the most part, we are 2-deep at each position, except we have one too many forwards:

PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre, Kispert
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie
PF Kyshawn, Whitmore
C Sarr, Bagley

As long as one of our forwards is always hurt, the rotation makes pretty good sense. But when everyone is healthy, one among Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn and Whitmore will be the odd man out. Or maybe one of them moves to SG and bumps Kispert out of the rotation.

My guess is that Champagnie will be the odd man out if everyone is healthy - due to his age and salary. But I don't expect the condition to last for too long. If we go an extended period of time with all those forwards playing well and fighting for minutes, I expect one of Kispert or Middleton to be traded to make room.

Ultimately, I don't really think it will be a problem because we will have injuries.

I fully agree with all of this (Bilal and Sarr are out for camp for example) with one caveat. I feel like it is more this:
PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre, Kispert
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn, Whitmore
PF None really
C Sarr, Bagley

[doclinkin]

I fully agree with all of this (Bilal and Sarr are out for camp for example) with one caveat. I feel like it is more this:
PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre, Kispert
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn, Whitmore
PF None really
C Sarr, Bagley

Or quite possibly

PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre,
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Kispert
PF Sarr
C None, Bagley

Kispert can’t dribble. Playmake. Beat his man off the dribble. Or create his own offense. Tough to call him a guard if so.

Sarr doesn’t rebound and plays on the perimeter. Outside in on offense. Not a stand up C who patrols the paint. Stifles penetration by his presence in the inside. Or a reliable low post scorer. Tough to call him a 5 yet. Though there were good signs in Euro play. He’s still best as a perimeter defender.

I do think Kyshawn’s physicality, improved height and muscle and activity in the post in FIBA play mean that he will likely play this role more as more. Becoming a legit PF even if he’s still currently listed as a Guard on the roster.

[payitforward]

The amount of variance across these projections tells me that we don't have the slightest idea how it will unroll!

[nate33]

I fully agree with all of this (Bilal and Sarr are out for camp for example) with one caveat. I feel like it is more this:
PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre, Kispert
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn, Whitmore
PF None really
C Sarr, Bagley

Or quite possibly

PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre,
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Kispert
PF Sarr
C None, Bagley

Kispert can’t dribble. Playmake. Beat his man off the dribble. Or create his own offense. Tough to call him a guard if so.

Sarr doesn’t rebound and plays on the perimeter. Outside in on offense. Not a stand up C who patrols the paint. Stifles penetration by his presence in the inside. Or a reliable low post scorer. Tough to call him a 5 yet. Though there were good signs in Euro play. He’s still best as a perimeter defender.

I do think Kyshawn’s physicality, improved height and muscle and activity in the post in FIBA play mean that he will likely play this role more as more. Becoming a legit PF even if he’s still currently listed as a Guard on the roster.

Frankly, there isn't much distinction between SG, SF and PF these days. They all do the same stuff more or less, only you expect your shorter guys to be a bit more skilled at it to offset the fact that they're less versatile defensively.

Kispert will run around and shoot 3's on offense, whether you label him a SG or a SF. Sarr is going to set screens and either roll or pop, whether you call him a PF or a C.

[dckingsfan]

I fully agree with all of this (Bilal and Sarr are out for camp for example) with one caveat. I feel like it is more this:
PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre, Kispert
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn, Whitmore
PF None really
C Sarr, Bagley

Or quite possibly

PG CJ, Bub
SG Tre,
SF Bilal, Middleton, Champagnie, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Kispert
PF Sarr
C None, Bagley

Kispert can’t dribble. Playmake. Beat his man off the dribble. Or create his own offense. Tough to call him a guard if so.

Sarr doesn’t rebound and plays on the perimeter. Outside in on offense. Not a stand up C who patrols the paint. Stifles penetration by his presence in the inside. Or a reliable low post scorer. Tough to call him a 5 yet. Though there were good signs in Euro play. He’s still best as a perimeter defender.

I do think Kyshawn’s physicality, improved height and muscle and activity in the post in FIBA play mean that he will likely play this role more as more. Becoming a legit PF even if he’s still currently listed as a Guard on the roster.

Frankly, there isn't much distinction between SG, SF and PF these days. They all do the same stuff more or less, only you expect your shorter guys to be a bit more skilled at it to offset the fact that they're less versatile defensively.

Kispert will run around and shoot 3's on offense, whether you label him a SG or a SF. Sarr is going to set screens and either roll or pop, whether you call him a PF or a C.

I think it is material on the defensive end - you are who you guard (if you will).