Training Camp Thread / Media Day

[PushDaRock]

Spending years of trying to develop PG Scottie when we needed PF Scottie working on his mid range/low post game was a disaster. It was always obvious where Scottie needed to play to be a dominant player except for this delusional franchise.

Let's hope we less 3 point chucking and more going to the rim domination.

That's why I have always said they should model his offensive game after KG. He needs to operate from those spaces.

Its obvious he will never be a BI type scorer.

do you believe that's what the Raptors organization ever wanted ? I personally don't believe they ever gave that indication, which is why we traded for BI

What? Of course they wanted him to emerge as a #1 option. They traded Siakam to give him the reigns. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity and that's the reason why the FO went out and got Ingram. If Scottie was a 25 ppg scorer, it's pretty unlikely we would have traded for Ingram.

[HangTime]

That's why I have always said they should model his offensive game after KG. He needs to operate from those spaces.

Its obvious he will never be a BI type scorer.

do you believe that's what the Raptors organization ever wanted ? I personally don't believe they ever gave that indication, which is why we traded for BI

What? Of course they wanted him to emerge as a #1 option. They traded Siakam to give him the reigns. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity and that's the reason why the FO went out and got Ingram. If Scottie was a 25 ppg scorer, it's pretty unlikely we would have traded for Ingram.

I think Scottie could average 25, but he's still working on the overall game, so a guy like Ingram makes it easier. I'm not saying he's going to this year, but he can, if he simplified.

[HiJiNX]

I think we have to find minutes for Battle. He’s the best shooter on the team, has size, is smart, hustles, and plays decent defence. Gotta find a way to get him minutes.

If Dick doesn’t shoot it well again this year then we need to trade him.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

This place is a ghost town. I’ve never seen it like this in 20 years of browsing and posting. Are forums dying? Are those of us remaining old timers stuck in the past, with a lack of interest due to a rebuilding season while the younger generation are on Reddit or social media?

It's the moderation. Crappy posters are overly positive, and new...they like new. Don't want to scare them away by pointing out nuanced faults in the long term plan. The level of discussion has plummeted.

[PushDaRock]

do you believe that's what the Raptors organization ever wanted ? I personally don't believe they ever gave that indication, which is why we traded for BI

What? Of course they wanted him to emerge as a #1 option. They traded Siakam to give him the reigns. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity and that's the reason why the FO went out and got Ingram. If Scottie was a 25 ppg scorer, it's pretty unlikely we would have traded for Ingram.

I think Scottie could average 25, but he's still working on the overall game, so a guy like Ingram makes it easier. I'm not saying he's going to this year, but he can, if he simplified.

Let's hope he stops working on his overall game then.

[HangTime]

What? Of course they wanted him to emerge as a #1 option. They traded Siakam to give him the reigns. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity and that's the reason why the FO went out and got Ingram. If Scottie was a 25 ppg scorer, it's pretty unlikely we would have traded for Ingram.

I think Scottie could average 25, but he's still working on the overall game, so a guy like Ingram makes it easier. I'm not saying he's going to this year, but he can, if he simplified.

Let's hope he stops working on his overall game then.

scaled back, but don't abandon the all around game, because we have alot of scoring to go around.

Our offence is going to be very dynamic.

[raptorforlife88]

This place is a ghost town. I’ve never seen it like this in 20 years of browsing and posting. Are forums dying? Are those of us remaining old timers stuck in the past, with a lack of interest due to a rebuilding season while the younger generation are on Reddit or social media?

It's the moderation. Crappy posters are overly positive, and new...they like new. Don't want to scare them away by pointing out nuanced faults in the long term plan. The level of discussion has plummeted.

I actually don't think it is. Besides the fact that the other side of the coin has it's own faults, like spamming threads with the same arguments regardless of the topic, I don't think it's the moderation or the types of posters.

The Raptors subreddit was also shockingly quiet on media day, relative to prior years. That's where more people are now, and there was actually less engagement there, then there was even here.

I think it is a combination of a team that has been lost in the weeds for a few years, Masai not being part of the team anymore as he was in a lot of ways the face of the team and big part of media day, and also sadly that while casual fans are expected to disappear during lean years, I think a lot of more hardcore fans cashed out in some ways after the Championship season. Still fans but with less of that absolutely dedicated online commitment the Raptors fandom had for years.

Honestly I'm somewhat a part of that last group, I'm still around but the last two years I've found myself checking out easier than I ever would have in the entire decade before that. I watched from the VC years, the BC years, and got to see the absolute peak of what every fan wants (along with a fun sequel season). I'm older, have kids and not as much dedicated time.

The newer fans that the team picked up from the Lowry/Derozan season onwards have never experienced something like the last couple of seasons. Not surprised they are doing the Blue Jays fan thing of not paying attention until they're good again.

[DreamTeam09]

That's why I have always said they should model his offensive game after KG. He needs to operate from those spaces.

Its obvious he will never be a BI type scorer.

do you believe that's what the Raptors organization ever wanted ? I personally don't believe they ever gave that indication, which is why we traded for BI

What? Of course they wanted him to emerge as a #1 option. They traded Siakam to give him the reigns. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity and that's the reason why the FO went out and got Ingram. If Scottie was a 25 ppg scorer, it's pretty unlikely we would have traded for Ingram.

When they drafted Scottie they didn't project him to be a scorer, that was never in his cards. They comped him to the magic type, & he's not a scorer. They traded Pascal because they didn't want to Max him. The og trade netted scorers in IQ n RJ and the Pascal trade ultimately returned BI as the scorer. Drafted GD and Walter with their first, both known for their potential offense when coming out of college. All the defensive guys they added were on the fringes, ala 2nds and trades. This draft they went with a defensive+ prospect in the 1st. Every move has been about Scottie doing less scoring not more imo. Still that doesn't mean he can't do everything else and be a superstar or star in the process.

[anotherhomer]

not only it's been 6 years since the championship, but
look at these posters 2006, 2008, 2009....a lot of these guys have moved on in life naturally (family, careers, etc)

This place is a ghost town. I’ve never seen it like this in 20 years of browsing and posting. Are forums dying? Are those of us remaining old timers stuck in the past, with a lack of interest due to a rebuilding season while the younger generation are on Reddit or social media?

It's the moderation. Crappy posters are overly positive, and new...they like new. Don't want to scare them away by pointing out nuanced faults in the long term plan. The level of discussion has plummeted.

I actually don't think it is. Besides the fact that the other side of the coin has it's own faults, like spamming threads with the same arguments regardless of the topic, I don't think it's the moderation or the types of posters.

The Raptors subreddit was also shockingly quiet on media day, relative to prior years. That's where more people are now, and there was actually less engagement there, then there was even here.

I think it is a combination of a team that has been lost in the weeds for a few years, Masai not being part of the team anymore as he was in a lot of ways the face of the team and big part of media day, and also sadly that while casual fans are expected to disappear during lean years, I think a lot of more hardcore fans cashed out in some ways after the Championship season. Still fans but with less of that absolutely dedicated online commitment the Raptors fandom had for years.

Honestly I'm somewhat a part of that last group, I'm still around but the last two years I've found myself checking out easier than I ever would have in the entire decade before that. I watched from the VC years, the BC years, and got to see the absolute peak of what every fan wants (along with a fun sequel season). I'm older, have kids and not as much dedicated time.

The newer fans that the team picked up from the Lowry/Derozan season onwards have never experienced something like the last couple of seasons. Not surprised they are doing the Blue Jays fan thing of not paying attention until they're good again.

[anotherhomer]

plus, a lot of these older posters seen the same thing before.....
get excited about scottie "oh he averaged 16/8/4", once we trade pascal and fred, he'll average 23/8/7
except scottie actually showed he can't be the number one option

now, watch CMB surprises people, he averages 11/6/3, and ppl are like let's trade Scottie and give CMB the keys lol


rinse and repeat

[S.W.A.N]

plus, a lot of these older posters seen the same thing before.....
get excited about scottie "oh he averaged 16/8/4", once we trade pascal and fred, he'll average 23/8/7
except scottie actually showed he can't be the number one option

now, watch CMB surprises people, he averages 11/6/3, and ppl are like let's trade Scottie and give CMB the keys lol


rinse and repeat

yup, the casuals always like the shiny new toy

[Tofubeque]

Hearing that activity is also low on Raptors reddit, I'll throw this out there: last year the Raptors executed the most shameless tank job I've seen since Sam Hinkie. They were pulling starters out of the 4th Qs of close games. It was match fixing and frankly a disgrace to watch, though I understand the strategy.

What a shocker that when you tell fans your games don't matter, most of them will tune out. I've been enjoying Samson and Es' Raptors Republic training camp vlogs, really some of the best access and analysis of camp I've seen in years. But even on the youtube side, each of their videos gets like 4 comments on it.

If the Raptors play meaningful basketball again and win, and are in the playoff picture, I'm guessing the buzz will pick up again. Until then, their reputation is a team that doesn't prioritize winning and can't stay healthy anyway.

[MEDIC]

Spending years of trying to develop PG Scottie when we needed PF Scottie working on his mid range/low post game was a disaster. It was always obvious where Scottie needed to play to be a dominant player except for this delusional franchise.

Let's hope we less 3 point chucking and more going to the rim domination.

That's why I have always said they should model his offensive game after KG. He needs to operate from those spaces.

Its obvious he will never be a BI type scorer.

do you believe that's what the Raptors organization ever wanted ? I personally don't believe they ever gave that indication, which is why we traded for BI

It seemed to me (especially last season), that they were testing those waters. I think they spent a couple of seasons seeing how far they could push his offensive game. I think they have moved past that now though & simply want to get the most out of his current skillset.

[C_Money]

Hearing that activity is also low on Raptors reddit, I'll throw this out there: last year the Raptors executed the most shameless tank job I've seen since Sam Hinkie. They were pulling starters out of the 4th Qs of close games. It was match fixing and frankly a disgrace to watch, though I understand the strategy.

What a shocker that when you tell fans your games don't matter, most of them will tune out. I've been enjoying Samson and Es' Raptors Republic training camp vlogs, really some of the best access and analysis of camp I've seen in years. But even on the youtube side, each of their videos gets like 4 comments on it.

If the Raptors play meaningful basketball again and win, and are in the playoff picture, I'm guessing the buzz will pick up again. Until then, their reputation is a team that doesn't prioritize winning and can't stay healthy anyway.

Yeah I’m a bit confused. We’re expected to be a winning team for the first time in awhile. People should be more excited.

[PushDaRock]

do you believe that's what the Raptors organization ever wanted ? I personally don't believe they ever gave that indication, which is why we traded for BI

What? Of course they wanted him to emerge as a #1 option. They traded Siakam to give him the reigns. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity and that's the reason why the FO went out and got Ingram. If Scottie was a 25 ppg scorer, it's pretty unlikely we would have traded for Ingram.

When they drafted Scottie they didn't project him to be a scorer, that was never in his cards. They comped him to the magic type, & he's not a scorer. They traded Pascal because they didn't want to Max him. The og trade netted scorers in IQ n RJ and the Pascal trade ultimately returned BI as the scorer. Drafted GD and Walter with their first, both known for their potential offense when coming out of college. All the defensive guys they added were on the fringes, ala 2nds and trades. This draft they went with a defensive+ prospect in the 1st. Every move has been about Scottie doing less scoring not more imo. Still that doesn't mean he can't do everything else and be a superstar or star in the process.

A superstar that can't score? lol name one of those.

[manjusaka]

Hearing that activity is also low on Raptors reddit, I'll throw this out there: last year the Raptors executed the most shameless tank job I've seen since Sam Hinkie. They were pulling starters out of the 4th Qs of close games. It was match fixing and frankly a disgrace to watch, though I understand the strategy.

What a shocker that when you tell fans your games don't matter, most of them will tune out. I've been enjoying Samson and Es' Raptors Republic training camp vlogs, really some of the best access and analysis of camp I've seen in years. But even on the youtube side, each of their videos gets like 4 comments on it.

If the Raptors play meaningful basketball again and win, and are in the playoff picture, I'm guessing the buzz will pick up again. Until then, their reputation is a team that doesn't prioritize winning and can't stay healthy anyway.

Yeah I’m a bit confused. We’re expected to be a winning team for the first time in awhile. People should be more excited.

It is very simple, the Raptors are not actually winning yet.

[raptorforlife88]

Hearing that activity is also low on Raptors reddit, I'll throw this out there: last year the Raptors executed the most shameless tank job I've seen since Sam Hinkie. They were pulling starters out of the 4th Qs of close games. It was match fixing and frankly a disgrace to watch, though I understand the strategy.

What a shocker that when you tell fans your games don't matter, most of them will tune out. I've been enjoying Samson and Es' Raptors Republic training camp vlogs, really some of the best access and analysis of camp I've seen in years. But even on the youtube side, each of their videos gets like 4 comments on it.

If the Raptors play meaningful basketball again and win, and are in the playoff picture, I'm guessing the buzz will pick up again. Until then, their reputation is a team that doesn't prioritize winning and can't stay healthy anyway.

Yeah I’m a bit confused. We’re expected to be a winning team for the first time in awhile. People should be more excited.

They haven't won yet. And beyond that, take a little scroll up this page and look at the join date for people. A really high number are basically users who have been on this thing for well over a decade now. From the last time the team had a sustained crappy stretch. The fans that were only used to winning will come back when there is more winning. And also when the Jays either win the WS or lose.

[right between the eyes]

Hearing that activity is also low on Raptors reddit, I'll throw this out there: last year the Raptors executed the most shameless tank job I've seen since Sam Hinkie. They were pulling starters out of the 4th Qs of close games. It was match fixing and frankly a disgrace to watch, though I understand the strategy.

What a shocker that when you tell fans your games don't matter, most of them will tune out. I've been enjoying Samson and Es' Raptors Republic training camp vlogs, really some of the best access and analysis of camp I've seen in years. But even on the youtube side, each of their videos gets like 4 comments on it.

If the Raptors play meaningful basketball again and win, and are in the playoff picture, I'm guessing the buzz will pick up again. Until then, their reputation is a team that doesn't prioritize winning and can't stay healthy anyway.

Yeah I’m a bit confused. We’re expected to be a winning team for the first time in awhile. People should be more excited.

As others have said, the casuals from the chip have jumped off the bandwagon after last year, but will come back if we put together a winning product. Last year was painful but us hardcores will always be here. Ingram should help peak interest, as long as he stays healthy.

Also with the Jays doing so well, all eyes are on, them as they should be.

[Brinbe]

I just don't think there's really much to talk right now. And by that I mean that lots of the conversations about this team and its players have been already been hashed out a million times over during the spring/summer and people have long staked out their positions in that regard. At this point it's all about judging things on-court during these first few months of the season and going from there. And I think once we get some games in (and have something new to talk about) we'll see board activity increase but obviously I don't think it'll ever be what it was at its peak during the Babs to BC era.

[Jerry Lucas]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg

This isn't surprising to me at all. When Darko said Mamu was going to be the backup 5, Shead is also a bench lock, and there will be no defensive weak links this year, I knew that meant either Gradey or Ja'Kobe would start the season as the 11th man.

Darko also said the 11th man will still see minutes this year because he thinks the team deep enough to run some 11-deep rotation nights, so this doesn't necessarily mean Ja'Kobe is on the outside looking in, unless you think someone else is the 11th man (I don't see how it isn't Ja'Kobe though).

At first I leaned Gradey because he is currently the worse defender between the 2, but I'm not surprised that it's Ja'Kobe given how high the organization clearly still is on Gradey's upside. Org messaging on him is consistent in that they still view him as IQ's backcourt partner of the future who they project will also fit excellently as a complimentary starter alongside Scottie (and now also Ingram).