[Shams] Nikola Jovic extends with Miami 4/62.4M

[tcheco]

This is the MLE next offseason right?

A little less than the MLE over the next 4 years.

I would take this shot if I were Miami and deal with the overpaid 3rd forward if Jovic is done developing? I just don’t think he is.

I think that’s Jovic’s established floor? A not great third forward, so overpaid by a few mil a year? But the upside is he keeps developing his ball handling .. puts on enough weight to not get bullied in paint on defense..

While he is already great enough from the corner that Spo should be throwing the ball that way anytime defenses want to cave on Bam..

I’d like this a lot more with a team option, but I understand it for Miami. If Jovic has developed on either side, there’s tanking teams giving him 20 mill or more a year next offseason.

It's basically the same deal as what Obi Toppin got? And...that seems about right? Neither is really a long-term answer at starting forward, but really useful as a 3rd forward/3rd big? Can definitely argue Jovic is a better player than Obi, but probably pretty similar level impact on the court as a player?

Agree. Only difference I’d mention is Jovic is 23 the first year of extension and Toppin was 26.

I’d actually rather have Toppin than Jovic last season (don’t blame others for picking Jovic), but I think Miami built in some upside there that Indy didn’t have to build in?

Definitely Toppin was paid for what he provides and Jovic got paid on him improving

[Scoot McGroot]

sounds like they are giving up on being a FA player next offseason?

Gotta see what Wiggins does…

[Scoot McGroot]

A little less than the MLE over the next 4 years.



It's basically the same deal as what Obi Toppin got? And...that seems about right? Neither is really a long-term answer at starting forward, but really useful as a 3rd forward/3rd big? Can definitely argue Jovic is a better player than Obi, but probably pretty similar level impact on the court as a player?

Agree. Only difference I’d mention is Jovic is 23 the first year of extension and Toppin was 26.

I’d actually rather have Toppin than Jovic last season (don’t blame others for picking Jovic), but I think Miami built in some upside there that Indy didn’t have to build in?

Definitely Toppin was paid for what he provides and Jovic got paid on him improving

Absolutely. Toppin was paid as an older lotto pick that had “been dumped” once, and found his spot of production, while Jovic was drafted later x has slowly improved year over year, not been “dumped” and is younger? Jovic should absolutely be paid more. But I think his level of “impact” will end up being similar to Obi?

[tcheco]

Agree. Only difference I’d mention is Jovic is 23 the first year of extension and Toppin was 26.

I’d actually rather have Toppin than Jovic last season (don’t blame others for picking Jovic), but I think Miami built in some upside there that Indy didn’t have to build in?

Definitely Toppin was paid for what he provides and Jovic got paid on him improving

Absolutely. Toppin was paid as an older lotto pick that had “been dumped” once, and found his spot of production, while Jovic was drafted later x has slowly improved year over year, not been “dumped” and is younger? Jovic should absolutely be paid more. But I think his level of “impact” will end up being similar to Obi?

I think that's fair. He probably gave up on a few million for missing so many games, and Heat gave him a 4 year without any team option for believing he can outplay his contract.

He can be a good PF off the bench with decent 3pt shooting and decent handles for a big. Limited but with a role that many teams can use at that price, same as Toppin, different tools, same impact and need from teams

[SA37]

This is the MLE next offseason right?

A little less than the MLE over the next 4 years.

I would take this shot if I were Miami and deal with the overpaid 3rd forward if Jovic is done developing? I just don’t think he is.

I think that’s Jovic’s established floor? A not great third forward, so overpaid by a few mil a year? But the upside is he keeps developing his ball handling .. puts on enough weight to not get bullied in paint on defense..

While he is already great enough from the corner that Spo should be throwing the ball that way anytime defenses want to cave on Bam..

I’d like this a lot more with a team option, but I understand it for Miami. If Jovic has developed on either side, there’s tanking teams giving him 20 mill or more a year next offseason.

It's basically the same deal as what Obi Toppin got? And...that seems about right? Neither is really a long-term answer at starting forward, but really useful as a 3rd forward/3rd big? Can definitely argue Jovic is a better player than Obi, but probably pretty similar level impact on the court as a player?

If Jovic has an Avdija-like breakout this year or the following, Miami's FO will look like geniuses.

[gswhoops]

sounds like they are giving up on being a FA player next offseason?

Gotta see what Wiggins does…

Yeah. They're <$10M under the cap line right now but if Wiggins opts out they're instant players again (or if they trade him for someone with a team option )

If not, they can probably find takers for Mitchell and Jovic without too much trouble since they're both sub-MLE deals

[Scoot McGroot]

This is the MLE next offseason right?

A little less than the MLE over the next 4 years.

I would take this shot if I were Miami and deal with the overpaid 3rd forward if Jovic is done developing? I just don’t think he is.

I think that’s Jovic’s established floor? A not great third forward, so overpaid by a few mil a year? But the upside is he keeps developing his ball handling .. puts on enough weight to not get bullied in paint on defense..

While he is already great enough from the corner that Spo should be throwing the ball that way anytime defenses want to cave on Bam..

I’d like this a lot more with a team option, but I understand it for Miami. If Jovic has developed on either side, there’s tanking teams giving him 20 mill or more a year next offseason.

It's basically the same deal as what Obi Toppin got? And...that seems about right? Neither is really a long-term answer at starting forward, but really useful as a 3rd forward/3rd big? Can definitely argue Jovic is a better player than Obi, but probably pretty similar level impact on the court as a player?

If Jovic has an Avdija-like breakout this year or the following, Miami's FO will look like geniuses.

Sure. That’s The absolute best possible, most dream like outcome, though, right? Like, Miami doesn’t even dream of that realistically happening?

He could also just not develop? Maybe regress? Could be the next Zeke Nnaji or Andrew Nicholson and Miami is just stuck having to lay off the contract?

That’s also unlikely, too. I’d guess the reality is Jovic ends up somewhere in the middle of those two extremes?

[SA37]

Spoiler:

A little less than the MLE over the next 4 years.



It's basically the same deal as what Obi Toppin got? And...that seems about right? Neither is really a long-term answer at starting forward, but really useful as a 3rd forward/3rd big? Can definitely argue Jovic is a better player than Obi, but probably pretty similar level impact on the court as a player?

If Jovic has an Avdija-like breakout this year or the following, Miami's FO will look like geniuses.

Sure. That’s The absolute best possible, most dream like outcome, though, right? Like, Miami doesn’t even dream of that realistically happening?

He could also just not develop? Maybe regress? Could be the next Zeke Nnaji or Andrew Nicholson and Miami is just stuck having to lay off the contract?

That’s also unlikely, too. I’d guess the reality is Jovic ends up somewhere in the middle of those two extremes?

Yeah, I think Avdija/Hedo Turkoglu/Harrison Barnes is the best-case scenario. Even if Jovic doesn't improve substantially, I still think his kind of worst-case scenario is a less athletic, better ball-handling version of Obi Toppin. Middle of the road is something like Santi Aldama or Rui Hachimura.

Not sure what Miami thinks his ceiling might be, but Riley has historically loved big ball-handling forwards, like Anthony Mason and Lamar Odom.

[BlazersBroncos]

Spoiler:

If Jovic has an Avdija-like breakout this year or the following, Miami's FO will look like geniuses.

Sure. That’s The absolute best possible, most dream like outcome, though, right? Like, Miami doesn’t even dream of that realistically happening?

He could also just not develop? Maybe regress? Could be the next Zeke Nnaji or Andrew Nicholson and Miami is just stuck having to lay off the contract?

That’s also unlikely, too. I’d guess the reality is Jovic ends up somewhere in the middle of those two extremes?

Yeah, I think Avdija/Hedo Turkoglu/Harrison Barnes is the best-case scenario. Even if Jovic doesn't improve substantially, I still think his kind of worst-case scenario is a less athletic, better ball-handling version of Obi Toppin. Middle of the road is something like Santi Aldama or Rui Hachimura.

Not sure what Miami thinks his ceiling might be, but Riley has historically loved big ball-handling forwards, like Anthony Mason and Lamar Odom.

Hedo but more position locked at PF is the best case IMO. Jovic isnt near as athletic or downhill centric as Deni and the passing / creation upside is far better than Barnes (Not to mention Barnes is a better defender and has a skillset that makes him fit in more lineups IMO).

[wegotthabeet]

Yeah this is another awful Heat contract.

[jbk1234]

This is the MLE next offseason right?

A little less than the MLE over the next 4 years.

I would take this shot if I were Miami and deal with the overpaid 3rd forward if Jovic is done developing? I just don’t think he is.

I think that’s Jovic’s established floor? A not great third forward, so overpaid by a few mil a year? But the upside is he keeps developing his ball handling .. puts on enough weight to not get bullied in paint on defense..

While he is already great enough from the corner that Spo should be throwing the ball that way anytime defenses want to cave on Bam..

I’d like this a lot more with a team option, but I understand it for Miami. If Jovic has developed on either side, there’s tanking teams giving him 20 mill or more a year next offseason.

It's basically the same deal as what Obi Toppin got? And...that seems about right? Neither is really a long-term answer at starting forward, but really useful as a 3rd forward/3rd big? Can definitely argue Jovic is a better player than Obi, but probably pretty similar level impact on the court as a player?

If Jovic has an Avdija-like breakout this year or the following, Miami's FO will look like geniuses.

Seems like a pretty unrealistic scenario. Avdija has been a plus defender and a multi-skilled player for the majority of his career. Jovic doesn't just have to increase his offensive efficiency on increased usage to get to Avdija's level.

I don't hate the contract. I tend to think that this board gets a little over its skis as far as how good a player needs to be to warrant an MLE type deal. However, if he continues to struggle with his health, he won't be viewed as an asset by potential trade partners, and given how tight money is around the NBA, I think the Heat should've waited.

[BlazersBroncos]

A little less than the MLE over the next 4 years.



It's basically the same deal as what Obi Toppin got? And...that seems about right? Neither is really a long-term answer at starting forward, but really useful as a 3rd forward/3rd big? Can definitely argue Jovic is a better player than Obi, but probably pretty similar level impact on the court as a player?

If Jovic has an Avdija-like breakout this year or the following, Miami's FO will look like geniuses.

Seems like a pretty unrealistic scenario. Avdija has been a plus defender and a multi-skilled player for the majority of his career. Jovic doesn't just have to increase his offensive efficiency on increased usage to get to Avdija's level.

I don't hate the contract. I tend to think that this board gets a little over its skis as far as how good a player needs to be to warrant an MLE type deal. However, if he continues to struggle with his health, he won't be viewed as an asset by potential trade partners, and given how tight money is around the NBA, I think the Heat should've waited.

6'10, near 40% from 3, 16.6% AST rate w/ only 18% usage last season, 2 years straight of + .100 WS48, + DBPM last 2 seasons. I think he a hard enough to find archetype that this deal is a worthy gamble.

[SA37]

Spoiler:

A little less than the MLE over the next 4 years.



It's basically the same deal as what Obi Toppin got? And...that seems about right? Neither is really a long-term answer at starting forward, but really useful as a 3rd forward/3rd big? Can definitely argue Jovic is a better player than Obi, but probably pretty similar level impact on the court as a player?

If Jovic has an Avdija-like breakout this year or the following, Miami's FO will look like geniuses.

Seems like a pretty unrealistic scenario. Avdija has been a plus defender and a multi-skilled player for the majority of his career. Jovic doesn't just have to increase his offensive efficiency on increased usage to get to Avdija's level.

I don't hate the contract. I tend to think that this board gets a little over its skis as far as how good a player needs to be to warrant an MLE type deal. However, if he continues to struggle with his health, he won't be viewed as an asset by potential trade partners, and given how tight money is around the NBA, I think the Heat should've waited.

I picked Avdija as a comp not so much because it is a precise match, but because Avdija's overall output in years 2 &3 were on par with what Jovic has produced in his years 2 & 3. Avdija then suddenly made a big jump and repeated the feat with Portland. I'm not saying that is what happens with Jovic, but Miami must feel like he can make a jump if they've guaranteed him 4 years, $62M.

As far as MLE level contracts go, we're seeing adjustments to the new CBA rules on the fly, but when the dust settles I think it is going to be for 6th man/potential starting players. Guys who signed MLE-ish level deals this summer are Dennis Shröder, Nickeal Alexander Walker, and Caris Levert. All the guys who got $18-$25M/year bc of their upside (Kuminga, Giddey) will see their next contracts revert to an ~MLE level deal if they don't make good on that upside. A lot of good veterans are going to be playing more and more for the mininum or the smaller exceptions because the rest of the money will go to extending stars and potential stars.

Jovic's deal is roughly in line with what DFS, Santi Aldama, and Bobby Portis signed for, with Aldama and Jovic getting a bit more because of their upside. It's an overpay based on everything we've seen from Jovic. You can only assume Miami is either betting on Jovic to make a jump and/or they're trying to help his trade value by locking him in at a reasonable number + selling teams on his upside if Miami ends up trying to use him in a trade down the line.

[tcheco]

Spoiler:

If Jovic has an Avdija-like breakout this year or the following, Miami's FO will look like geniuses.

Seems like a pretty unrealistic scenario. Avdija has been a plus defender and a multi-skilled player for the majority of his career. Jovic doesn't just have to increase his offensive efficiency on increased usage to get to Avdija's level.

I don't hate the contract. I tend to think that this board gets a little over its skis as far as how good a player needs to be to warrant an MLE type deal. However, if he continues to struggle with his health, he won't be viewed as an asset by potential trade partners, and given how tight money is around the NBA, I think the Heat should've waited.

I picked Avdija as a comp not so much because it is a precise match, but because Avdija's overall output in years 2 &3 were on par with what Jovic has produced in his years 2 & 3. Avdija then suddenly made a big jump and repeated the feat with Portland. I'm not saying that is what happens with Jovic, but Miami must feel like he can make a jump if they've guaranteed him 4 years, $62M.

As far as MLE level contracts go, we're seeing adjustments to the new CBA rules on the fly, but when the dust settles I think it is going to be for 6th man/potential starting players. Guys who signed MLE-ish level deals this summer are Dennis Shröder, Nickeal Alexander Walker, and Caris Levert. All the guys who got $18-$25M/year bc of their upside (Kuminga, Giddey) will see their next contracts revert to an ~MLE level deal if they don't make good on that upside. A lot of good veterans are going to be playing more and more for the mininum or the smaller exceptions because the rest of the money will go to extending stars and potential stars.

Jovic's deal is roughly in line with what DFS, Santi Aldama, and Bobby Portis signed for, with Aldama and Jovic getting a bit more because of their upside. It's an overpay based on everything we've seen from Jovic. You can only assume Miami is either betting on Jovic to make a jump and/or they're trying to help his trade value by locking him in at a reasonable number + selling teams on his upside if Miami ends up trying to use him in a trade down the line.

Agree with this.
The only issue here is: less than 107 games played in 3 years, small sample size on his play, injury concerns? while no big injury happened

[SA37]

Spoiler:

Seems like a pretty unrealistic scenario. Avdija has been a plus defender and a multi-skilled player for the majority of his career. Jovic doesn't just have to increase his offensive efficiency on increased usage to get to Avdija's level.

I don't hate the contract. I tend to think that this board gets a little over its skis as far as how good a player needs to be to warrant an MLE type deal. However, if he continues to struggle with his health, he won't be viewed as an asset by potential trade partners, and given how tight money is around the NBA, I think the Heat should've waited.

I picked Avdija as a comp not so much because it is a precise match, but because Avdija's overall output in years 2 &3 were on par with what Jovic has produced in his years 2 & 3. Avdija then suddenly made a big jump and repeated the feat with Portland. I'm not saying that is what happens with Jovic, but Miami must feel like he can make a jump if they've guaranteed him 4 years, $62M.

As far as MLE level contracts go, we're seeing adjustments to the new CBA rules on the fly, but when the dust settles I think it is going to be for 6th man/potential starting players. Guys who signed MLE-ish level deals this summer are Dennis Shröder, Nickeal Alexander Walker, and Caris Levert. All the guys who got $18-$25M/year bc of their upside (Kuminga, Giddey) will see their next contracts revert to an ~MLE level deal if they don't make good on that upside. A lot of good veterans are going to be playing more and more for the mininum or the smaller exceptions because the rest of the money will go to extending stars and potential stars.

Jovic's deal is roughly in line with what DFS, Santi Aldama, and Bobby Portis signed for, with Aldama and Jovic getting a bit more because of their upside. It's an overpay based on everything we've seen from Jovic. You can only assume Miami is either betting on Jovic to make a jump and/or they're trying to help his trade value by locking him in at a reasonable number + selling teams on his upside if Miami ends up trying to use him in a trade down the line.

Agree with this.
The only issue here is: less than 107 games played in 3 years, small sample size on his play, injury concerns? while no big injury happened

Jovic's inconsistency and Miami's obsession with defense has seen Jovic yo-yo from being a starter getting 15-25mpg to being pulled from the rotation entirely over the last 2 seasons.

[basketballwacko2]

I think Jovic is a good player for Miami. Is he a PF or an SF? He should be a good value on this contract.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I think Jovic is a good player for Miami. Is he a PF or an SF? He should be a good value on this contract.

I think himself and the team view him as a PF next to Bam.

I think Heat fans view him as the starting SF next to Bam and Ware.

[BBallFreak]

I think Jovic is a good player for Miami. Is he a PF or an SF? He should be a good value on this contract.

I think himself and the team view him as a PF next to Bam.

I think Heat fans view him as the starting SF next to Bam and Ware.

Most of us view him as potential more than a specific position. We've seen him play both and we like what we see at both spots. That's all.

[VaDe255]

I think Jovic is a good player for Miami. Is he a PF or an SF? He should be a good value on this contract.

I think himself and the team view him as a PF next to Bam.

I think Heat fans view him as the starting SF next to Bam and Ware.

Most of us view him as potential more than a specific position. We've seen him play both and we like what we see at both spots. That's all.

Yes, it doesn't really matter how fans “view” Jovic, it’s not how modern basketball coaches think.
It’s not about fixed positions, it’s about having the right mix of skills on the floor.
Lineups don’t live or die because of size or labels, but because of the actual skill sets and players that complement each other in the right roles