How do we think about Patrick Williams and his contract in light of Giddey's?

[Chi town]

I wish that video had made me more optimistic... But like some, it actually makes me less so. He doesn't look notably slimmer to me, nor quicker. Very JAG.

The shot looks fine, though, and he doesn't look impaired, can get up, too. And his real impact would be on D, where that wasn't really played.

Still... We will have to see in actual NBA games if anything is different. I have my doubts - feel like there is a better chance a Dalen Terry or Phillips levels up at this point.

Maybe Pat will play well as a small ball 5, since Billy lives going tiny.

Pat will be given mins to up his value to trade him away.

I think DT is the guy that makes the jump though. Think he will get burn once Ayo is shipped out.

[rosenthall]

Watch on YouTube

With the usual caveat that these games are nowhere close to real competition, playing at half-speed vs full-speed, etc, two things jump out at me:

1. Pat looks slimmer, which is nice to see. I think fans habitually underrate the value of offseasons in player success, especially in their early years, so it looks like this one is going much better than last year's.

2. Even with the poor competition......Pat looks mid. Most of the guys on the court are not NBA quality, and the ones that are are not starter quality. My belief is that really talented players have something ephemeral about their game that you can recognize as being exceptional, and I would hope Pat would show it in a setting like this, but he doesn't.

As an example, here's a clip of Blake Griffin playing in a similar setting, and I think when you watch the clip, it's just kind of obvious that he's a tier above others in his combination of size, speed and explosiveness:

Watch on YouTube

I know Pat's not Blake and never will be. But he should still look like a giant amongst midgets in this type of setting, and he's not.

Counter-point, in your linked video Pascal Siakam looks completley pedestrian and he was probably the best player (at worst second best player) on an Indiana team that went to the Finals and pushed the Thunder to a game 7.

I don't want to over-argue my point, since I know the games are so far-removed from NBA level competition. Agree that Siakam does not look like a world beater in that video, although I do think his fluidity and length kinda standout. But I accept your point. These videos are not smoking guns of evidence one way or another.

[rosenthall]

I wish that video had made me more optimistic... But like some, it actually makes me less so. He doesn't look notably slimmer to me, nor quicker. Very JAG.

The shot looks fine, though, and he doesn't look impaired, can get up, too. And his real impact would be on D, where that wasn't really played.

Still... We will have to see in actual NBA games if anything is different. I have my doubts - feel like there is a better chance a Dalen Terry or Phillips levels up at this point.

Maybe Pat will play well as a small ball 5, since Billy lives going tiny.

Agreed about the D part. It's Pat's stronger side of the ball and you see absolutely none of it here.

Speaking of Dalen, I found this:

According to multiple sources close to Bulls insider K.C. Johnson, Terry “has quietly had a very very strong offseason.” The former 18th overall selection out of the University of Arizona has spent the offseason working on his game—as all professional athletes do—however, insiders emphasized that he “has worked hard to improve his shot,” a skill that could make him a much more versatile scoring option for Billy Donovan’s rotation.

Link: https://pippenainteasy.com/chicago-bulls-insider-reveals-unexpected-breakout-candidate-after-strong-offseason

I think this season is the first one where Pat is a JAG to the Bulls FO, and if one of Ayo, Terry or Phillips takes a jump he could find himself out of the rotation entirely.

[dougthonus]

footage of Patrick Williams summer open gym runs to give some false hope/hype - CHECK

We have officially completed the last task of the checklist for the Bulls offseason. Bring on training camp!

Did you watch the video? That didn't give me any hope at all. He looked slow and clueless on defense. I think this box remains unchecked.

[PaKii94]

footage of Patrick Williams summer open gym runs to give some false hope/hype - CHECK

We have officially completed the last task of the checklist for the Bulls offseason. Bring on training camp!

Did you watch the video? That didn't give me any hope at all. He looked slow and clueless on defense. I think this box remains unchecked.

Yeah it's pretty bad that even at 20% effort runs, he stands out like the slow clueless one

[nitetrain8603]

Patrick could theoretically have a bounce back season but I have my doubts.

Firstly Patrick is the complete opposite than everyone else on the roster. As in he has the lowest motor on the team and struggles playing with pace.

He has played at Demar speed for most of his career.

He still has his usefulness. Guarding bigger 4s that Matas may struggle with. Helping with defense on the interior and drop coverage.

I dont think Pat averages 20 mins this year. Probably like a 8/3 average on the season.

To have a bounce back season, that would imply he was ever a good player. He's never been a good player. He's been a player with size, athleticism and potential. He's never been a player of production. To further the bounce back analogy, if you bounce a ball from a high height, it bounces back to the initial height, or close to it.

Patrick bouncing back would be the equivalent of bouncing a ball 2CM off the ground. It'll bounce, but not by much.

[Indomitable]

Pat looks like he is chilling

[HomoSapien]

Read on Twitter

[GoBlue72391]

Pat looks like he is chilling

He's been chilling his whole career.

[GoBlue72391]

Read on Twitter

That's good news since some, but not all, of his issues seem to stem from playing too heavy. It's weird that he won't disclose his weight. Especially weird considering roster heights and weights are updated and published around this time of year.

[sco]

Read on Twitter

That's good news since some, but not all, of his issues seem to stem from playing too heavy. It's weird that he won't disclose his weight. Especially weird considering roster heights and weights are updated and published around this time of year.

I agree it was weird. Maybe he's self conscious about it given it has been a big topic of conversation in social media or maybe he didn't want to disclose a number that might differ from whatever the official number coming out is.

[Indomitable]

Pat looks like he is chilling

He's been chilling his whole career.

It was not a compliment. He is there to get a paycheck. He reminds me of Eddy Curry with more self control.

[sco]

Pat looks like he is chilling

He's been chilling his whole career.

It was not a compliment. He is there to get a paycheck. He reminds me of Eddy Curry with more self control.

I don't know. I think he just comes across laid back. Based on that video in the media day thread, I don't think Billy would be saying anything nice about him if it didn't seem like he did the right work in the offseason. Also, I was impressed by Pat's interview there. It was the most self-aware and thoughtful I've seen him.

[Chi town]

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That's good news since some, but not all, of his issues seem to stem from playing too heavy. It's weird that he won't disclose his weight. Especially weird considering roster heights and weights are updated and published around this time of year.

I agree it was weird. Maybe he's self conscious about it given it has been a big topic of conversation in social media or maybe he didn't want to disclose a number that might differ from whatever the official number coming out is.

I bet it was 15 lbs and that seems embarrassing to him like he was out of shape last season. He said twice in his interview how he was in shape last season just too heavy.

[sco]

That's good news since some, but not all, of his issues seem to stem from playing too heavy. It's weird that he won't disclose his weight. Especially weird considering roster heights and weights are updated and published around this time of year.

I agree it was weird. Maybe he's self conscious about it given it has been a big topic of conversation in social media or maybe he didn't want to disclose a number that might differ from whatever the official number coming out is.

I bet it was 15 lbs and that seems embarrassing to him like he was out of shape last season. He said twice in his interview how he was in shape last season just too heavy.

I do think he didn't have a have a high body fat % last season. They showed a looker room video without his shirt after Billy got into the HOF and Pat was rocking a 6 pack. I think he was in bad cardio shape and bulked up too much. It was interesting that both he and Matas talked about not getting to bulked up in their pressers. I think it's part of the whole playing fast thing, and I love it. The last thing we need is another guy to get Lauri'd and mess up his game.

[Indomitable]

I agree it was weird. Maybe he's self conscious about it given it has been a big topic of conversation in social media or maybe he didn't want to disclose a number that might differ from whatever the official number coming out is.

I bet it was 15 lbs and that seems embarrassing to him like he was out of shape last season. He said twice in his interview how he was in shape last season just too heavy.

I do think he didn't have a have a high body fat % last season. They showed a looker room video without his shirt after Billy got into the HOF and Pat was rocking a 6 pack. I think he was in bad cardio shape and bulked up too much. It was interesting that both he and Matas talked about not getting to bulked up in their pressers. I think it's part of the whole playing fast thing, and I love it. The last thing we need is another guy to get Lauri'd and mess up his game.

I am glad Pat confirmed what I argued in that thread.

[eierluke]

PWill to the Bulls is just a dead contract.
Until management/ coaching staff accept this (and their mistake) they don't deserve my respect anymore.

While I believe that he in principle has minimum contract talent level, they at one point have to send him to G-league, since I fear that his passive style could be contagious to this team with it's declared goal to win games with more energy than their opponents.

[DASMACKDOWN]

PWill to the Bulls is just a dead contract.
Until management/ coaching staff accept this (and their mistake) they don't deserve my respect anymore.

While I believe that he in principle has minimum contract talent level, they at one point have to send him to G-league, since I fear that his passive style could be contagious to this team with it's declared goal to win games with more energy than their opponents.

You are missing the most important point though. Billy trusts his defense.

That alone will keep him relevant around the team.

Pat is basically playing for the 10th spot right now. In competition with like 4 other guys.

If you asked me how I realistically think this will play out, I think Pat is in the rotation first. (Out of Phillips, Terry, Smith, Noa)

If he plays poorly, no motor, no effect, trainwreck on offense, then yes that will bury him. Because there really isn't a lot of difference between the rest if he plays like that.

Now if he plays back to his defense he is capable of playing and back to shooting 40% from 3, then he clearly beats out the rest.

This will be his absolute last chance though to prove it.

We still have Julian here for 2 more years on the cheap. Also Noa will certainly have a bigger role next year.

[eierluke]

I don't have anything personally against PWill, if he can beat out someone by objective and fair measurement then yeah I'm in.
To be honest the competition Terry and Phillips are borderline end of the bench guys. As PWill Phillips does not rebound, nor has he a reliable 3 pt shot and his low ast numbers indicate that he is the end of every passing lane.
Terry has various limitations, but he is trying as hell and is improving his game. I expect him to remain in this league on minimum contracts for some years.