Collin Murray-Boyles Thread

[anotherhomer]

CMB is kinda a nightmare match-up for him because not only can't be bullied and he has great hands. Also, Scottie is a vet in the pre-season now. He doesn't need to show anything.

i hope so....the jumper and loose handles seem to indicate "Scottie is who he is"

[JShuttlesworth]

I'm pretty high on CMB coming into the season, he's going to have a clear path to minutes because of his size and skillset. He's also sneaky effective offensively, he's got good hands, I don't think Darko is going to have to run plays for him but he'll still find a way to score points.

It's going to be nice having a forward who can defend coming off the bench, the Raptors haven't had that in years

[mihaic]

I was looking at the combine comparison Cmb to Scottie, as well as the pictures, and it looks like Cmb has a few pounds on Scottie, looks stronger. That can only be good.

But I see quite a difference in vertical jump, is that going to affect CMB when real games will be played? It's like 4 inch diff in vert jump. He may be blocked when dunking perhaps? Or not be able to block as many shots?

On the bright side the eye test tells me he is more skilled offensively than Scottie was. But worse passer I think.

Is this a fair comparison? For those who watched him extensively.

[Agimat]

My prediction is that he will be the 2nd best player later in the season.

[adubmac]

My prediction is that he will be the 2nd best player later in the season.

The second best bench player?

[Naysorn]

Just a matter of time before he’s in the starting lineup.

Barnes and CMB works great on defense. That would be top 5 in the league. The big difference with them that we didn't have before is the help defense they bring.

I'm hoping we eventually see CMB as a starter instead of Dick, Walter, or Agbaji. It gives us a completely different look.

spacing would be horrendous

[dballislife]

i like poeltl over turner as a player...but for our current roster, turner would look so so good with barnes and cmb...and he was available this summer, i hope our front office at least considered it

[HangTime]

Just a matter of time before he’s in the starting lineup.

Barnes and CMB works great on defense. That would be top 5 in the league. The big difference with them that we didn't have before is the help defense they bring.

I'm hoping we eventually see CMB as a starter instead of Dick, Walter, or Agbaji. It gives us a completely different look.

spacing would be horrendous

IQ/Ingram/Scottie/CMB/Jakob

I don't think this lineup needs much spacing.
You can lean more on IQ and Ingram for offense
I think Scottie, CMB, and Jakob can get away with just their off-ball movements.

and you can buy a ton time defensively, and free flow on offense.

Or, have CMB be a hub,
-If a Small guy is on him he can use his physicality.
-If a Big guy is on him he can test his handle and footwork

both can draw double teams, and he's an unselfish decision maker out of those situations.

[MessiahUjiri]

Barnes and CMB works great on defense. That would be top 5 in the league. The big difference with them that we didn't have before is the help defense they bring.

I'm hoping we eventually see CMB as a starter instead of Dick, Walter, or Agbaji. It gives us a completely different look.

spacing would be horrendous

IQ/Ingram/Scottie/CMB/Jakob

I don't think this lineup needs much spacing.
You can lean more on IQ and Ingram for offense
I think Scottie, CMB, and Jakob can get away with just their off-ball movements.

and you can buy a ton time defensively, and free flow on offense.

Or, have CMB be a hub,
-If a Small guy is on him he can use his physicality.
-If a Big guy is on him he can test his handle and footwork

both can draw double teams, and he's an unselfish decision maker out of those situations.

This isn’t 2004 anymore bro, even the Pistons had better spacing than this.


CMB and Scottie and Poeltl is a disaster.

This is only good as a defensive lineup at the end of a game, and it gets switched up after a timeout.

You can

[DreamTeam09]

spacing would be horrendous

IQ/Ingram/Scottie/CMB/Jakob

I don't think this lineup needs much spacing.
You can lean more on IQ and Ingram for offense
I think Scottie, CMB, and Jakob can get away with just their off-ball movements.

and you can buy a ton time defensively, and free flow on offense.

Or, have CMB be a hub,
-If a Small guy is on him he can use his physicality.
-If a Big guy is on him he can test his handle and footwork

both can draw double teams, and he's an unselfish decision maker out of those situations.

This isn’t 2004 anymore bro, even the Pistons had better spacing than this.


CMB and Scottie and Poeltl is a disaster.

This is only good as a defensive lineup at the end of a game, and it gets switched up after a timeout.

You can

you guys conflate, especially media members too, spacing with positioning on the court.
When most ppl mention "spacing" y'all mean the defender is going to sag off the offensive player and pack the paint? IQ and Ingram can certainly
take advantage of players sagging off of Scottie CMB or Jakob. Ingram relishes getting to his middy and drawing two

[VanWest82]

I was looking at the combine comparison Cmb to Scottie, as well as the pictures, and it looks like Cmb has a few pounds on Scottie, looks stronger. That can only be good.

But I see quite a difference in vertical jump, is that going to affect CMB when real games will be played? It's like 4 inch diff in vert jump. He may be blocked when dunking perhaps? Or not be able to block as many shots?

On the bright side the eye test tells me he is more skilled offensively than Scottie was. But worse passer I think.

Is this a fair comparison? For those who watched him extensively.

CMB looks like the better finisher to me. Based on the way he uses his body to carve out space, I don't think we need to worry about him getting his shot blocked. I like elements of the Paul Millsap comp.

RE passing, Scottie off the bounce but CMB out of the post imo.

The big question, assuming we're competitive, is how much these two will play together. If CMB has early success with the jumper and Scottie regains his early 23/24 form, then it'll be lots imo. Otherwise, I'm guessing not much outside of small ball line ups which will seem odd given where we drafted them. Hopefully, this doesn't turn into Scottie v CMB within the fan base (and who am I kidding, of course it's going to turn into that).

[mtcan]

Just a matter of time before he’s in the starting lineup.

Barnes and CMB works great on defense. That would be top 5 in the league. The big difference with them that we didn't have before is the help defense they bring.

I'm hoping we eventually see CMB as a starter instead of Dick, Walter, or Agbaji. It gives us a completely different look.

spacing would be horrendous

Ya let's not start putting him in the starting lineup after a training camp scrimmage. CMB has things he has to work on. And again...he needs to prove himself better than Scottie and BI. Let's keep the expectations realistic.

I love his IQ and physicality on D. His shooting needs to come along. Nothing is a given right now.

[mihaic]

I was looking at the combine comparison Cmb to Scottie, as well as the pictures, and it looks like Cmb has a few pounds on Scottie, looks stronger. That can only be good.

But I see quite a difference in vertical jump, is that going to affect CMB when real games will be played? It's like 4 inch diff in vert jump. He may be blocked when dunking perhaps? Or not be able to block as many shots?

On the bright side the eye test tells me he is more skilled offensively than Scottie was. But worse passer I think.

Is this a fair comparison? For those who watched him extensively.

CMB looks like the better finisher to me. Based on the way he uses his body to carve out space, I don't think we need to worry about him getting his shot blocked. I like elements of the Paul Millsap comp.

RE passing, Scottie off the bounce but CMB out of the post imo.

The big question, assuming we're competitive, is how much these two will play together. If CMB has early success with the jumper and Scottie regains his early 23/24 form, then it'll be lots imo. Otherwise, I'm guessing not much outside of small ball line ups which will seem odd given where we drafted them. Hopefully, this doesn't turn into Scottie v CMB within the fan base (and who am I kidding, of course it's going to turn into that).

In fact I hope it will turn into that, because that'd mean CMB is very good. At that point perhaps one of them can be traded for that missing piece to turn Raptors contenders for the East..

[Thaddy]

Barnes and CMB works great on defense. That would be top 5 in the league. The big difference with them that we didn't have before is the help defense they bring.

I'm hoping we eventually see CMB as a starter instead of Dick, Walter, or Agbaji. It gives us a completely different look.

spacing would be horrendous

Ya let's not start putting him in the starting lineup after a training camp scrimmage. CMB has things he has to work on. And again...he needs to prove himself better than Scottie and BI. Let's keep the expectations realistic.

I love his IQ and physicality on D. His shooting needs to come along. Nothing is a given right now.

If CMB in the starting line up keeps us at play in level I'd be okay with that. The issue with our starting line up is that most of those guys are at 80%+ of the potential. I can't see them making major strides like Dick, CMB or Walter could. I wouldn't give any of them outright dibs at starting but there should be fluidity in our SL based on who's performing well.

[mtcan]

spacing would be horrendous

Ya let's not start putting him in the starting lineup after a training camp scrimmage. CMB has things he has to work on. And again...he needs to prove himself better than Scottie and BI. Let's keep the expectations realistic.

I love his IQ and physicality on D. His shooting needs to come along. Nothing is a given right now.

If CMB in the starting line up keeps us at play in level I'd be okay with that. The issue with our starting line up is that most of those guys are at 80%+ of the potential. I can't see them making major strides like Dick, CMB or Walter could. I wouldn't give any of them outright dibs at starting but there should be fluidity in our SL based on who's performing well.

Young guys need to prove themselves worthy.

CMB is the newest and latest and the mentality on this board is to stan the latest and newest and all the sudden everyone else sucks...and then things get toxic. Are we so sure now that Scottie is better than Pascal and that Pascal needed to go? The argument isn't nearly as strong as the people with the agenda for Scottie and against Pascal. Pascal is a legitimately good player and didn't deserve the hate that led up to his departure. I hope we treat our guys better going forward.

Let's not jump to anoint this kid as the next big thing. He is a rookie. Period. Full stop. Let him develop and learn from the vets and play his way into the starting lineup.

[YogurtProducer]

He didn't seem all that confident in summer league shooting from outside 3 feet. I'm sure the Raptors will have clamps on him in terms of what they'll let him do in the regular season. I doubt we'll get to see what he's capable of as a scorer until year 2.

I suspect you're correct. He doesn't project as a major scoring threat, and I don't see any real need to force it... because that's exactly what we've been doing with Scottie, and it's been sinfully stupid. Only it'd be worse with Ingram inbound, after all.

Not when you don’t have a jumpshot.

If Scottie had vertical pop, he’d be a much better scorer. It’s only overrated if you have a lot of technical ability.

No, none of that is correct. Vertical isn't nearly as useful as most people seem to believe. You need to get to your spots. Quickness is of CONSIDERABLY more value. And then skill beyond that. Most guys don't really get up much more than 30-36 inches during the course of regular game play. There are diminishing returns on vertical, and it matters only much in some very specific situations. It's literally the most overrated physical tool in the game.

Scottie needs not to be an incompetent boob more than 10 feet from the rim, and he needs a better middle game. He needs a lot more skill. Or he needs more quickness, which obviously isn't going to happen, because you can lean on first step and speed a LOT for a decade or so. But another 6 inches of vert wouldn't really change anything about his game, because his issues center around shooting and actually getting to spots, not vertical clearance compared to defender.

Completely disagree lol.

Lebron, MJ, Kobe, etc all had that vertical pop, it helped them paper over their lack of technical ability for their first several years into the league and bought them time to hone their craft and skills so that it was a seamless transition from being a vertical threat to being a crafty offensive player.

Regardless of what you believe, having that explosion/vertical pop helps mask the lack of refinement a player may have in their technical ability.

lol LeBron MJ and Kobe didn’t lack technical ability.

But either way, their athletic traits were elite in all areas. Their speed strength and quickness mattered a lot more than vertical

[HangTime]

IQ/Ingram/Scottie/CMB/Jakob

I don't think this lineup needs much spacing.
You can lean more on IQ and Ingram for offense
I think Scottie, CMB, and Jakob can get away with just their off-ball movements.

and you can buy a ton time defensively, and free flow on offense.

Or, have CMB be a hub,
-If a Small guy is on him he can use his physicality.
-If a Big guy is on him he can test his handle and footwork

both can draw double teams, and he's an unselfish decision maker out of those situations.

This isn’t 2004 anymore bro, even the Pistons had better spacing than this.


CMB and Scottie and Poeltl is a disaster.

This is only good as a defensive lineup at the end of a game, and it gets switched up after a timeout.

You can

you guys conflate, especially media members too, spacing with positioning on the court.
When most ppl mention "spacing" y'all mean the defender is going to sag off the offensive player and pack the paint? IQ and Ingram can certainly
take advantage of players sagging off of Scottie CMB or Jakob. Ingram relishes getting to his middy and drawing two

There are advantages all over floor, most people don't see them.

CMB drawing help, and Scottie, Jakob get a less resistant head start going down hill, to the rim. It's a like "power boost" for others athletism, gravity of CMB.

[Thaddy]

Ya let's not start putting him in the starting lineup after a training camp scrimmage. CMB has things he has to work on. And again...he needs to prove himself better than Scottie and BI. Let's keep the expectations realistic.

I love his IQ and physicality on D. His shooting needs to come along. Nothing is a given right now.

If CMB in the starting line up keeps us at play in level I'd be okay with that. The issue with our starting line up is that most of those guys are at 80%+ of the potential. I can't see them making major strides like Dick, CMB or Walter could. I wouldn't give any of them outright dibs at starting but there should be fluidity in our SL based on who's performing well.

Young guys need to prove themselves worthy.

CMB is the newest and latest and the mentality on this board is to stan the latest and newest and all the sudden everyone else sucks...and then things get toxic. Are we so sure now that Scottie is better than Pascal and that Pascal needed to go? The argument isn't nearly as strong as the people with the agenda for Scottie and against Pascal. Pascal is a legitimately good player and didn't deserve the hate that led up to his departure. I hope we treat our guys better going forward.

Let's not jump to anoint this kid as the next big thing. He is a rookie. Period. Full stop. Let him develop and learn from the vets and play his way into the starting lineup.

Barnes will definitely be better than Siakam over the course of his career. Siakam took a leap at the same age so it's very possible Barnes does too, in fact it's likely. That type of season should be Barnes goal, if he can get 15-16 pts a game on 60% from the field and hit stationary 3s. He'd be on the better trajectory.

[mtcan]

If CMB in the starting line up keeps us at play in level I'd be okay with that. The issue with our starting line up is that most of those guys are at 80%+ of the potential. I can't see them making major strides like Dick, CMB or Walter could. I wouldn't give any of them outright dibs at starting but there should be fluidity in our SL based on who's performing well.

Young guys need to prove themselves worthy.

CMB is the newest and latest and the mentality on this board is to stan the latest and newest and all the sudden everyone else sucks...and then things get toxic. Are we so sure now that Scottie is better than Pascal and that Pascal needed to go? The argument isn't nearly as strong as the people with the agenda for Scottie and against Pascal. Pascal is a legitimately good player and didn't deserve the hate that led up to his departure. I hope we treat our guys better going forward.

Let's not jump to anoint this kid as the next big thing. He is a rookie. Period. Full stop. Let him develop and learn from the vets and play his way into the starting lineup.

Barnes will definitely be better than Siakam over the course of his career. Siakam took a leap at the same age so it's very possible Barnes does too, in fact it's likely. That type of season should be Barnes goal, if he can get 15-16 pts a game on 60% from the field and hit stationary 3s. He'd be on the better trajectory.

Hopefully. But let's not dismiss all the things Pascal has done in his career so far...and he is still in his prime, on a Pacers team that will be back in contention when Haly comes back.

But again...the hate that the fanbase had towards Pascal because they thought that Pascal was the reason why Scottie hadn't taken a leap...it's clear that it wasn't Pascal's fault. Let's not repeat history with CMB and anyone else ahead of him in the depth chart.

[HumbleRen]

I suspect you're correct. He doesn't project as a major scoring threat, and I don't see any real need to force it... because that's exactly what we've been doing with Scottie, and it's been sinfully stupid. Only it'd be worse with Ingram inbound, after all.



No, none of that is correct. Vertical isn't nearly as useful as most people seem to believe. You need to get to your spots. Quickness is of CONSIDERABLY more value. And then skill beyond that. Most guys don't really get up much more than 30-36 inches during the course of regular game play. There are diminishing returns on vertical, and it matters only much in some very specific situations. It's literally the most overrated physical tool in the game.

Scottie needs not to be an incompetent boob more than 10 feet from the rim, and he needs a better middle game. He needs a lot more skill. Or he needs more quickness, which obviously isn't going to happen, because you can lean on first step and speed a LOT for a decade or so. But another 6 inches of vert wouldn't really change anything about his game, because his issues center around shooting and actually getting to spots, not vertical clearance compared to defender.

Completely disagree lol.

Lebron, MJ, Kobe, etc all had that vertical pop, it helped them paper over their lack of technical ability for their first several years into the league and bought them time to hone their craft and skills so that it was a seamless transition from being a vertical threat to being a crafty offensive player.

Regardless of what you believe, having that explosion/vertical pop helps mask the lack of refinement a player may have in their technical ability.

lol LeBron MJ and Kobe didn’t lack technical ability.

But either way, their athletic traits were elite in all areas. Their speed strength and quickness mattered a lot more than vertical

Yes they did lol. It’s why LeBron completely melted down in his first 2 finals. They dared him to be beat them with his technical ability by taking away the paint and he couldn’t do it.

Being an above the rim type of athlete when you have clear shooting issues is clearly a positive, it doesn’t need to be a debate lol, it’s just simply true.