Are people too hard on Billy Donovan?

[Indomitable]

No he has been treated better then coaches that have won rings.

[Infinity2152]

Excited for the season. Reports coming out they're emphasizing physicality, practicing taking charges and Billy is full amped right now.

[RSP83]

I think Billy is a good coach with clear limitation.

His limitation is in maximizing roster, tailoring the team to maximize its strength. He's not very creative tactically. There are many stretches throughout his tenure here where it feels like he kept beating a dead horse.

It's pretty well known that he's a good all-around communicator (drastically different from our previous coaches from VDN to Thibs to Hoiberg to Boylen). I think he's doing relatively well in developing young players (Coby, Ayo, Matas, Giddey) with only notable duds being PWill; even I think Dalen and Julian shows progress every year it's just that maybe they're not a high-end talent to begin with which is more of AK problem.

He would've already been fired in other franchise for failing to make the playoffs with Zach, DeMar, and Vuc (regardless how mid this trio was). But with our new timeline, Billy fits. He reminds me of Sixers' Brett Brown during "The Process" I think Billy has at least 2 years to show what kind of team this is with Giddey and Matas, and maybe Coby.

[The Box Office]

We missed the playoffs a lot with Donovan.

[MrSparkle]

How many NBA coaches with a 1-4 playoff record in 5 years kept their job? We are a weird organization.

I’m sure he’s a fine coach. But there’s been a distinct pattern of hyping off-season schemes, coming in flat, rallying late in the regular season after trades/waiver-signings and then falling really flat in any game of consequence (play-in or playoff). Even weirder, is he’s done better when certain guys get injured, cause his rotations become more straight forward and easier to manage.

Isn’t it tiring? Coaches can only do so much, but he also happens to be stubborn with his choices, and I find myself questioning his rotations, especially in 4th Qs. Am I too hard on him? I don’t think I am. You can be a great basketball coach without being a good NBA coach (cough… Doug Collins, Tim Floyd, Rick Pitino!!!). Yes, Billy’s own coach was also a legendary coach with one of the worst coaching tenures in Celtics history.

This Bulls FO is a joke. They’re a bunch of stubborn cornholes. The only good thing I’ll say about them is the initial Lonzo-Caruso-Demar pickup was very clever and entertaining… and they seemed to go back to valuing shooting and IQ with their past year of pickups.

But they’re basically giving Billy a college team to coach. What, are they going to run-n-gun and full-court press with the 12-men? Whatever he does will work for a while and then it’ll run out of steam and he’ll fold and say the personnel isn’t ready yet.

You can’t run pro teams like an academy. You have to get the players who will carry the coach, not the other way around. I’m sure Billy is solid but he’s already proven that he doesn’t overachieve, out-scheme and surprise anybody in important games… for 4 years straight, not including his first season which was also a limp decline after the Vuc deadline, handing future perennial all-star Franz Wagner to Orlando.

[WesPeace]

I think he is a good person, likeable guy, players coach, but I think he is average as an NBA coach, very average.. Bulls should do better..

But at this stage where we are, two more seasons with Billy dont matter now..

[Ice Man]

People were too hard, when we had Zach, DDR, and Vuc, and Stacey was cracking on about how the team had three All Stars. That set unrealistic expectations, because those guys aren't as good as advertised, especially in combination.

Fans realize that now and so therefore have modified their view on Billy. He might not be the solution, but he's not the problem either.

[sco]

How many NBA coaches with a 1-4 playoff record in 5 years kept their job? We are a weird organization.

I’m sure he’s a fine coach. But there’s been a distinct pattern of hyping off-season schemes, coming in flat, rallying late in the regular season after trades/waiver-signings and then falling really flat in any game of consequence (play-in or playoff). Even weirder, is he’s done better when certain guys get injured, cause his rotations become more straight forward and easier to manage.

Isn’t it tiring? Coaches can only do so much, but he also happens to be stubborn with his choices, and I find myself questioning his rotations, especially in 4th Qs. Am I too hard on him? I don’t think I am. You can be a great basketball coach without being a good NBA coach (cough… Doug Collins, Tim Floyd, Rick Pitino!!!). Yes, Billy’s own coach was also a legendary coach with one of the worst coaching tenures in Celtics history.

This Bulls FO is a joke. They’re a bunch or stubborn cornholes. The only good thing I’ll say about them is the initial Lonzo-Caruso-Demar pickup was very clever and entertaining… and they seemed to go back to valuing shooting and IQ with their past year of pickups.

But they’re basically giving Billy a college team to coach. What, are they going to run-n-gun and full-court press with the 12-men? Whatever he does will work for a while and then it’ll run out of steam and he’ll fold and say the personnel isn’t ready yet.

You can’t run pro teams like an academy. You have to get the players who will carry the coach, not the other way around. It’s folly. I’m sure Billy is solid but he’s already proven that he doesn’t overachieve, out-scheme and surprise anybody in important games… for 4 years straight, not including his first season which was also a limp decline after the Vuc deadline, handing future perennial all-star Franz Wagner to Orlando.

I think Billy is still here because he is one of a very few coaches with a resume that lends credibility to an organization that is otherwise lacking credibility while being the sort of guy who doesn't tell AK that the emperor has no clothes. Maybe his motivation is trying to get his son a good resume while he's here, maybe he likes Chicago, IDK but Billy doesn't make waves in the media or in the locker room.

[DuckIII]

I think Donovan has a pretty good reputation relative to his record. Most coaches with his results would be thought of much worse than he is.

I think that's also fair based on the context.

Just based on the part I've bolded, most competent front offices would have definitely fired him by now, that's for certain. But I think our front office is very well aware the fault of the roster is on them, and not the coach, which is why they've kept him as long as they have. They basically can't afford to use him as a scapegoat.

I only agree with that if by “competent” you mean typical. Because your post appears to start as a criticism but then ends as a compliment.

A typical FO would have fired him by now to scapegoat him. Not a competent one. Not that ours is competent (though we’re seeing signs with greater frequency), but their decision to retain a HIGHLY respected coach among players, agents and FOs who has significantly over-produced in Chicago is one of the only consistently competent things they have done.

BD is fine. If you’re hungry, he’s a quality bacon cheeseburger.

[League Circles]

Yeah, the common notion that if a coach doesn't lead a team to high level success he should just eventually be fired by default is wild to me. You could theoretically have the 30 best basketball coaches in the universe in the NBA, and 15 of them are going to be losing every year.

I really don't look to team performance much at all when assessing individual players and coaches. They're each a small part of the puzzle. Just look at what they do well and what they do poorly and use that to guide you on when to make changes.

[Indomitable]

Last time he had a really good roster he almost beat the a prime warriors team in his first year.

Maximized a few of players over the years Russ, PG13 and lastly DeMar into MVP contender or winning players.

Not sure what to make of it, but AK and Billy learned from their mistakes we will see how the roster looks 2 years from now.

You mean the Warrior who were down 3 -1.

He so impressed Durant that he signed with the team that beat him.

The Warrior series was not a highlight.

[Red Larrivee]

I think he is a good person, likeable guy, players coach, but I think he is average as an NBA coach, very average.. Bulls should do better..

But at this stage where we are, two more seasons with Billy dont matter now..

Bulls might be the only team with a HC that's viewed a lot more favorably than the FO. Could they really do better? AK is dating way above his reputation right now.

[Infinity2152]

Can we make up our minds, lmao! Were Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic and scraps a playoff team? Is a team with ZERO good defenders starting and no top tier 10 offensive option a playoff team? Because they have 3 good scorers? Regardless of their names? Is half the game played on defense?

Are people really saying most coaches should be fired because they missed the playoffs regularly with those guys? Until the Ball injury, Billy actually made those guys work. With one good defender in Ball and PAT WILL, what was our record? We've had no true point guard and no good power forwards for years to go with those three. Even lost Lavine and Williams for large chunks of time.

Most of the people in here were begging for them to get rid of all three, looking for us to tank. Still asking for Vucevic to come off the bench, but Billy should have been fired for not making playoffs led by players nobody wants? Some of those guys are not even playing now I think, Pat Bev, Javonte Green got big minutes. Drummond still gets no respect. Somehow Giddey, Jones, Collins and Huerter all look much better joining this great team under Billy. Caruso's name became legend under Billy, lol. Had to work with what he had. Firing him for that would definitely just be using him as a scapegoat, and we'd end up with a worse coach while still paying him.

[Hangtime84]

Last time he had a really good roster he almost beat the a prime warriors team in his first year.

Maximized a few of players over the years Russ, PG13 and lastly DeMar into MVP contender or winning players.

Not sure what to make of it, but AK and Billy learned from their mistakes we will see how the roster looks 2 years from now.

You mean the Warrior who were down 3 -1.

He so impressed Durant that he signed with the team that beat him.

The Warrior series was not a highlight.

Depends how you look at it. IMO Russ went superhero mode and killed that series.

Kerr switch to Russ isn’t that efficient let him try to score.

[Infinity2152]

Last time he had a really good roster he almost beat the a prime warriors team in his first year.

Maximized a few of players over the years Russ, PG13 and lastly DeMar into MVP contender or winning players.

Not sure what to make of it, but AK and Billy learned from their mistakes we will see how the roster looks 2 years from now.

You mean the Warrior who were down 3 -1.

He so impressed Durant that he signed with the team that beat him.

The Warrior series was not a highlight.

Or you could say KD joined the Warriors team that had just gone 73-9, is considered one of the best teams in NBA history and decided to move to California instead of living in Oklahoma City as a free agent. Which has nothing to do with the coach. The fact that they called him and asked him to come right after they lost, made him feel needed, and gave him a great chance to beat Lebron in the Finals regularly probably didn't hurt.

Steph, Klay and Draymond in Cali or Westbrook and Ibaka in OKC. Tough decision, which team to choose?

Harden was gone I think. Donovan took Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka against the 73-9 first unanimous MVP Curry, Thompson, Green, Iguodala, Bogut team to seven games. That's not a failure.

[kodo]

Long tenure coaches are retained because they've proven they can win championships.

1. Spoelstra:
- 2 championships
- 6 finals
- .580 win record

2. Steve Kerr:
- 4 championships
- 6 finals
- .648 win record

3. Billy Donovan:
- 0 championships
- .487 win record (CHI)

4. Tyronn Lue
- 1 championship
- 2 EC titles
- .592 win record (CLE + LAC)

5. Mark Daigneault
- 1 championship
- 67% playoff win rate
- .528 overall win record

Billy just kind of sticks out with how long he's been with the team with no success.
Better coaches who have achieved more and been fired: Tom Thibodeau, Mike Malone, Taylor Jenkins, Rick Carlisle.

Obviously Ws depends on your talent the most, but just because you're still working on player talent means you just ignore every other aspect of the organization and do nothing to improve. Famously Erik Spoelstra took over the Heat when they were a 15 win team. If anything, changing coaches once the team is is ready to make a strong playoff run is probably the worst time to change everything.

If you think Billy is a championship coach then he should be kept. If you don't, you should look for that guy now because you're not going to just snap your fingers and get Kerr or Spoelstra when the team is ready. NY ran into this very thing this summer firing Thibs, and got rejected by all the top coaches and ended up settling for Mike Brown, which looks like a downgrade instead of an upgrade in my eyes.

[Red Larrivee]

Long tenure coaches are retained because they've proven they can win championships.

1. Spoelstra:
- 2 championships
- 6 finals
- .580 win record

2. Steve Kerr:
- 4 championships
- 6 finals
- .648 win record

3. Billy Donovan:
- 0 championships
- .487 win record (CHI)

4. Tyronn Lue
- 1 championship
- 2 EC titles
- .592 win record (CLE + LAC)

5. Mark Daigneault
- 1 championship
- 67% playoff win rate
- .528 overall win record

Billy just kind of sticks out with how long he's been with the team with no success.
Better coaches who have achieved more and been fired: Tom Thibodeau, Mike Malone, Taylor Jenkins, Rick Carlisle.

Obviously Ws depends on your talent the most, but just because you're still working on player talent means you just ignore every other aspect of the organization and do nothing to improve. Famously Erik Spoelstra took over the Heat when they were a 15 win team. If anything, changing coaches once the team is is ready to make a strong playoff run is probably the worst time to change everything.

If you think Billy is a championship coach then he should be kept. If you don't, you should look for that guy now because you're not going to just snap your fingers and get Kerr or Spoelstra when the team is ready. NY ran into this very thing this summer firing Thibs, and got rejected by all the top coaches and ended up settling for Mike Brown, which looks like a downgrade instead of an upgrade in my eyes.

LeBron or Steph make up 7 of these 8 "championship" coaches.

It's difficult to argue there's such thing as a "championship" caliber coach when almost all championships are won by generational talents.

[Infinity2152]

Long tenure coaches are retained because they've proven they can win championships.

1. Spoelstra:
- 2 championships
- 6 finals
- .580 win record

2. Steve Kerr:
- 4 championships
- 6 finals
- .648 win record

3. Billy Donovan:
- 0 championships
- .487 win record (CHI)

4. Tyronn Lue
- 1 championship
- 2 EC titles
- .592 win record (CLE + LAC)

5. Mark Daigneault
- 1 championship
- 67% playoff win rate
- .528 overall win record

Billy just kind of sticks out with how long he's been with the team with no success.
Better coaches who have achieved more and been fired: Tom Thibodeau, Mike Malone, Taylor Jenkins, Rick Carlisle.

Obviously Ws depends on your talent the most, but just because you're still working on player talent means you just ignore every other aspect of the organization and do nothing to improve. Famously Erik Spoelstra took over the Heat when they were a 15 win team. If anything, changing coaches once the team is is ready to make a strong playoff run is probably the worst time to change everything.

If you think Billy is a championship coach then he should be kept. If you don't, you should look for that guy now because you're not going to just snap your fingers and get Kerr or Spoelstra when the team is ready. NY ran into this very thing this summer firing Thibs, and got rejected by all the top coaches and ended up settling for Mike Brown, which looks like a downgrade instead of an upgrade in my eyes.

LeBron or Steph make up 7 of these 8 "championship" coaches.

It's difficult to argue there's such thing as a "championship" caliber coach when almost all championships are won by generational talents.

Exactly. Championship won this year by the MVP, SGA. That guy Jokic is pretty good too. Spoelstra or Kerr winning a championship with Lavine as his best player, along with Derozan and Vucevic? Miami Heat went 37-45 last season, easy to say their roster is better than ours, with or without Butler. Butler carried that team, not Spoelstra. Just like he jumpstarts every team he's on.

Which is better, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, James Harden or Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic?

[Future Coach]

We tend to agree to that more or less as long as no in game decisions are made.
Adjusting to the defense, holding veteran players accountable, stopping opponent runs, trying out (different) out of bounds plays etc. are not a strength if BD and I don't think that will change a lot.

And yes I think Demar ignored a lot of BD or even worse BD just let him play his style.

All in all I think he can manage veteran egos, because he let's them play. I don't think that's the best for all players and not always the best for the team either.

He's average, playin coach. Not more.

I agree with this.

His in game adjustments are relatively non-existent. His inbound plays are mediocre at best, and the play after a timeout are not good. Generally speaking, play coming out of a time out, especially inbound plays, are where a good coach gets an opportunity to stand out. Billy does not excel in that regard. He's average at best with it.

Generally speaking, I think he spends far too much time watching the game instead of actively managing/coaching it, like a young/inexperienced team like the Bulls needs.

He has helped squeeze/grind out a few wins, but not enough to be considered more than average. Anyone who insists otherwise needs to remove their Bulls-red tinted glasses

[meekrab]

Why the hell was Dalen Terry inbounding the ball at the end of the game instead of someone with court vision?