Raps V. Nuggets - Preseason - Mon, Oct 6th, 2025 - 10PM EST

[ConSarnit]

The offensive philosophy is on Darko. I can't remember us running a single action to get Scottie a good shot last night. The offensive gameplan didn't seem to involve him in any way really.

What exactly is an action to get Scottie a good shot, though?

Anything mid range is 100% better suited for Ingram. Towards the rim is Barrett. From 3 is IQ.

Barnes just... doesn't have any positive scoring attributes.

TBH - his best offensive role going forward really is to have no role in a pecking order. He can connect, and hopefully learn to play effectively offball with cuts and corner 3's, but I really honestly don't think you ever draw up a play for Barnes.

Post the man up…give him some split actions where he’s going down hill, you know, regular offensive **** that most coaches try and do for their max guy.

46th
31st
42nd
33rd

These are Barnes post-up percentile rankings by year. He’s been a below average to bad post up scorer every year. But sure, let’s just give him some more post-ups.

When are you guys going to realize Barnes isn’t good at scoring, from well, really anywhere.

Most coaches aren’t having to scrape the bottom of the barrel trying to find a single play type to get their max guy an efficient bucket.

[Zeno]

Most likely, fools gold in an injured east. Looks like, shead, ocahi, mamu and mogbo are our best 4 bench guys. All free agents. Probably lose a couple, come back w less while Pacers and Boston are now healthy.

1st, I don’t agree that these 4 are the best bench players available and 2nd, Raps got team options on Mogbo and Shead plus restricted rights on Occhai. Mamu has a player option but are we really starting the ‘how can we keep him’ angst after one good preseason game?

[Godaddycurse]

are we really starting the ‘how can we keep him’ angst after one good preseason game?

People are calling scottie a bust after one bad game, so might as well overreact to mamu's good game too

[YogurtProducer]

It's not the shooting % that folks are fixated on. It's how uninvolved he was in the offense. Scottie is the face of the franchise, highest paid player on the roster, and was 4th in usage in the starting lineup.

So?

A) it is one game
B) he is going to be below BI RJ and IQ all year in usage because he is a worse offensive player. Why would we force a square peg into a round hole?

Then I'll just go back to an earlier response: if this is the case, shouldn't we trade Barnes? You can't pay max money to a 4th option low usage starter. And that kind of offensive usage is just going to depress his value more, especially if we shift him off ball like we did last night.

No? If a good deal comes around sure, but you don't trade a guy just cause.

also, "max money" barnes is the 37th highest paid player in the league and by the last year will be even lower. He is far from a bad contract, and you 100% can have that kind of contract if your 4th option guy turns out to be an great-elite defender, and has great vision

[bballsparkin]

All in all the fans got entertained. Jokic showed a little of his magic. The Nuggets are going to be a problem for teams with small Centers. Between Jokic and JV they are massive. They look like contenders for sure.

Not a great showing by Scottie. And the blow by Bruce Brown did on Gradey was embarrassing. Ingram and RJ looked good. Mamu was the best part of the game he might be a great addition. Not so bad considering the Raptors were without Poeltl. On to the next one.

[mkot]

There goes our 6 game win streak in Vancouver.

Was at the game and not gonna lie I was excited to see Jokic and Murray and the Nuggets. Murray was making all his shots in his pregame warm up and I told my friends he's gonna cook tonight, and he did.

Gradey was also making his shots during pregame, but bricking everything in the game. Scottie looks rusty, and out of place, I know it's pre-season but I don't see positive sign so far. Ingram came alive when there's mismatch for him to hunt, and he's good at what he does.

We are a bunch of try hard, physical defense will be our calling card, we just not capable of smart, high IQ offense. Ingram is not the answer here, as good as he is individually offensively.

Fans were loud, place was rocking when we were up late in the 4th. It's preseason and fans were stuck to their seat until the buzzer. We have great fans and the basketball culture is growing, we just didn't want to root for a glorified G-League team.

[grimlock]

Barnes needs to be in a place to facilitate. He can't with Quickley and Ingram in the game. Just not possible.

[dballislife]

probably the biggest positive this game was ingram, he got to the rim, got fouls, hits 3s, hit some nice mid range demar like j's, and drove methodically by and backed down defenders and showed strong handles...his shot cant he blocked his arms are so long and he passed it alright

and totally didnt look bad on defense, he has really nice length

[ATLTimekeeper]

The "it's only one game" argument too... how many does it take? Like, obvious things don't take much time.

How many pre-season games? Are you new? The first Q of the season is just evaluation mode. What works, what doesn't. Teams that fall flat or don't like how it's going start talking trade. That's the first window. Every year there's always a couple of supposedly good teams that get off to a rough start, and a couple of supposedly bad teams that look great.

[JB7]

Thank God I'm not the coach lol. I think there is a balance that they'll figure out. I'm sure they'll use the pre-season to try things and see what makes sense. For the sake of playing devil's advocate, how successful do you think this team can be if Scottie and IQ are taking 12 shots combined in 20 minutes? I hope my question doesn't come across facetious, just curious and want to start a conversation.

The talk so far has been about a starting unit (with the standard 5), and a bench unit with Mamu, CMB, Dick, Ochai & Shead, and doing the hockey shifts kind of thing.

I think what they will come to realize is their starters won’t be able to play heavy minutes together, because as a unit they don’t maximize each other’s play.

So I expect to see more mixing of lineups eventually, with starters mixed with bench players, where the bench players skill sets compliment the starters in the game.

That's fair, and I agree. I do remember hearing that concept recently. One thing I was positively surprised about in the starting line up is how B.I. and R.J. play off of one another. It is only one pre-season game, but for all of the opinions about it not working, it didn't look terrible to me. Regardless, I'm looking forward to game 2.

I can see them settling into a rotation where they start the 5 (Yak, Barnes, BI, RJ & IQ), but they play a very short stint to start the game together. Just so they are regarded as the starters.

I could then see Scottie, Yak and IQ pulled, replaced by Mamu, CMB & Shead, with RJ & BI. And then the other lineup would be Yak, Scottie, Dick, Ochai and IQ together.

And whatever players are showing the hot hands, maybe finish the half or game.

[Prestige]

If you have to build elaborate game plans just to allow your 'franchise player' a chance to score, what's the point? Is our goal to be a better team or to make Scottie look better?

Lets take emotions or attachment out of this and look at the bigger picture. He needs to fit within the modern NBA game, and if he can't, he should be shipped out. I am not out on Barnes yet. He needs to show positive signs this year or they should aim to sell high before he turns into another Ben Simmons.

[Thaddy]

If you have to build elaborate game plans just to allow your 'franchise player' a chance to score, what's the point? Is our goal to be a better team or to make Scottie look better?

Lets take emotions or attachment out of this and look at the bigger picture. He needs to fit within the modern NBA game, and if he can't, he should be shipped out. I am not out on Barnes yet. He needs to show positive signs this year or they should aim to sell high before he turns into another Ben Simmons.

I think he's better than Mobley. In the same role he could do better than him. Focus should be defense and transition buckets. No more isolations. He needs to rebound and play harder. The most important part is for Barnes to STFU and stop complaining to the refs. It makes him look like a scrub.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The "it's only one game" argument too... how many does it take? Like, obvious things don't take much time.

How many pre-season games? Are you new? The first Q of the season is just evaluation mode. What works, what doesn't. Teams that fall flat or don't like how it's going start talking trade. That's the first window. Every year there's always a couple of supposedly good teams that get off to a rough start, and a couple of supposedly bad teams that look great.

I mean, I remember Gay, Jermaine O'Neal etc. Not working was obvious right from the jump.

[ConSarnit]

If you have to build elaborate game plans just to allow your 'franchise player' a chance to score, what's the point? Is our goal to be a better team or to make Scottie look better?

Lets take emotions or attachment out of this and look at the bigger picture. He needs to fit within the modern NBA game, and if he can't, he should be shipped out. I am not out on Barnes yet. He needs to show positive signs this year or they should aim to sell high before he turns into another Ben Simmons.

I think he's better than Mobley. In the same role he could do better than him. Focus should be defense and transition buckets. No more isolations. He needs to rebound and play harder. The most important part is for Barnes to STFU and stop complaining to the refs. It makes him look like a scrub.

Zero chance he is better than Mobley. Mobley just won DPOY. He's a better roll man. Better rebounder. Much better rim protector. Can provide some floor spacing (limited volume). Mobley has proven he can play small ball C and anchor a defense. Mobley does the things you want your big man to do. Barnes is a better passer but Mobley isn't a slouch there either.

Mobley has clearly surpassed Barnes as a player. Unless Barnes learns to shoot there is no way he passes Mobley as a player.

[Thaddy]

If you have to build elaborate game plans just to allow your 'franchise player' a chance to score, what's the point? Is our goal to be a better team or to make Scottie look better?

Lets take emotions or attachment out of this and look at the bigger picture. He needs to fit within the modern NBA game, and if he can't, he should be shipped out. I am not out on Barnes yet. He needs to show positive signs this year or they should aim to sell high before he turns into another Ben Simmons.

I think he's better than Mobley. In the same role he could do better than him. Focus should be defense and transition buckets. No more isolations. He needs to rebound and play harder. The most important part is for Barnes to STFU and stop complaining to the refs. It makes him look like a scrub.

Zero chance he is better than Mobley. Mobley just won DPOY. He's a better roll man. Better rebounder. Much better rim protector. Can provide some floor spacing (limited volume). Mobley has proven he can play small ball C and anchor a defense. Mobley does the things you want your big man to do. Barnes is a better passer but Mobley isn't a slouch there either.

Mobley has clearly surpassed Barnes as a player. Unless Barnes learns to shoot there is no way he passes Mobley as a player.

Mobley won that on the back of Allen. He's the fourth option on that team and has a clear defined role. Barnes hasn't had that.

Barnes is the more versatile defender. If you stuck him next to an elite rim protector he'd look much better.

Mobley would look like trash on a rebuilding team. If you think Barnes has creation issues you'd be very disappointed with Mobley.

[Jadoogar]

If you have to build elaborate game plans just to allow your 'franchise player' a chance to score, what's the point? Is our goal to be a better team or to make Scottie look better?

Lets take emotions or attachment out of this and look at the bigger picture. He needs to fit within the modern NBA game, and if he can't, he should be shipped out. I am not out on Barnes yet. He needs to show positive signs this year or they should aim to sell high before he turns into another Ben Simmons.

I think he's better than Mobley. In the same role he could do better than him. Focus should be defense and transition buckets. No more isolations. He needs to rebound and play harder. The most important part is for Barnes to STFU and stop complaining to the refs. It makes him look like a scrub.

hard disagree. Mobley is a significantly better defender. I know people like to say that scottie could be just as good if his offensive role was reduced btu we have no evidence of that, just feels.

Scottie is firmly behind Mobley, Cade and Sengun. This season will decide if he's behind Franz, Trey Murphy and Jalen Johnson.

[ConSarnit]

I think he's better than Mobley. In the same role he could do better than him. Focus should be defense and transition buckets. No more isolations. He needs to rebound and play harder. The most important part is for Barnes to STFU and stop complaining to the refs. It makes him look like a scrub.

Zero chance he is better than Mobley. Mobley just won DPOY. He's a better roll man. Better rebounder. Much better rim protector. Can provide some floor spacing (limited volume). Mobley has proven he can play small ball C and anchor a defense. Mobley does the things you want your big man to do. Barnes is a better passer but Mobley isn't a slouch there either.

Mobley has clearly surpassed Barnes as a player. Unless Barnes learns to shoot there is no way he passes Mobley as a player.

Mobley won that on the back of Allen. He's the fourth option on that team and has a clear defined role. Barnes hasn't had that.

Barnes is the more versatile defender. If you stuck him next to an elite rim protector he'd look much better.

Mobley would look like trash on a rebuilding team. If you think Barnes has creation issues you'd be very disappointed with Mobley.

Mobley took the 3rd most FGA on the Cavs and had the 3rd highest usage. How is he a 4th option?

Barnes doesn't have a clearly defined role because he doesn't have the skills to have a clear role. He can't score well enough to be an on-ball creator. He hasn't shown he can play like a more traditional big.

I don't care about creation issues. Barnes creating for us had led us nowhere. Prepare yourself to see Barnes creation drop even more with Ingram on board. Mobley does not need to create because he floor raises elsewhere.

Barnes has not proven to be a more versatile defender. Mobley guarded more iso and pnr ball handler possessions than Barnes last year AND put up better defensive stats doing so. Mobley guarded more FGA (on better DFG% than Barnes) and guarded more 3pt attempts (again, on better DFG% than Barnes).

If you put Mobley on a rebuilding team he would actually be able to floor raise them because he's an elite big man defender. Barnes has shown no such ability.

[Thaddy]

Zero chance he is better than Mobley. Mobley just won DPOY. He's a better roll man. Better rebounder. Much better rim protector. Can provide some floor spacing (limited volume). Mobley has proven he can play small ball C and anchor a defense. Mobley does the things you want your big man to do. Barnes is a better passer but Mobley isn't a slouch there either.

Mobley has clearly surpassed Barnes as a player. Unless Barnes learns to shoot there is no way he passes Mobley as a player.

Mobley won that on the back of Allen. He's the fourth option on that team and has a clear defined role. Barnes hasn't had that.

Barnes is the more versatile defender. If you stuck him next to an elite rim protector he'd look much better.

Mobley would look like trash on a rebuilding team. If you think Barnes has creation issues you'd be very disappointed with Mobley.

Mobley took the 3rd most FGA on the Cavs and had the 3rd highest usage. How is he a 4th option?

Barnes doesn't have a clearly defined role because he doesn't have the skills to have a clear role. He can't score well enough to be an on-ball creator. He hasn't shown he can play like a more traditional big.

I don't care about creation issues. Barnes creating for us had led us nowhere. Prepare yourself to see Barnes creation drop even more with Ingram on board. Mobley does not need to create because he floor raises elsewhere.

Barnes has not proven to be a more versatile defender. Mobley guarded more iso and pnr ball handler possessions than Barnes last year AND put up better defensive stats doing so. Mobley guarded more FGA (on better DFG% than Barnes) and guarded more 3pt attempts (again, on better DFG% than Barnes).

If you put Mobley on a rebuilding team he would actually be able to floor raise them because he's an elite big man defender. Barnes has shown no such ability.

What impact do you think playing with all star level guards has? Nothing lol?

Tell me about Mobleys creation skills too. I'm waiting.

[HumbleRen]

Mobley won that on the back of Allen. He's the fourth option on that team and has a clear defined role. Barnes hasn't had that.

Barnes is the more versatile defender. If you stuck him next to an elite rim protector he'd look much better.

Mobley would look like trash on a rebuilding team. If you think Barnes has creation issues you'd be very disappointed with Mobley.

Mobley took the 3rd most FGA on the Cavs and had the 3rd highest usage. How is he a 4th option?

Barnes doesn't have a clearly defined role because he doesn't have the skills to have a clear role. He can't score well enough to be an on-ball creator. He hasn't shown he can play like a more traditional big.

I don't care about creation issues. Barnes creating for us had led us nowhere. Prepare yourself to see Barnes creation drop even more with Ingram on board. Mobley does not need to create because he floor raises elsewhere.

Barnes has not proven to be a more versatile defender. Mobley guarded more iso and pnr ball handler possessions than Barnes last year AND put up better defensive stats doing so. Mobley guarded more FGA (on better DFG% than Barnes) and guarded more 3pt attempts (again, on better DFG% than Barnes).

If you put Mobley on a rebuilding team he would actually be able to floor raise them because he's an elite big man defender. Barnes has shown no such ability.

What impact do you think playing with all star level guards has? Nothing lol?

Tell me about Mobleys creation skills too. I'm waiting.

Why does it matter? It’s clear at this point that neither Mobley or Scottie are first option players.

Wouldn’t you rather have the more malleable 3rd option caliber player that just won a DPOY?

I still think Scottie is an all star caliber player but it’s pretty clear that Franz, Cade, Mobley and Sengun are above him at this point.

Our team gets considerably better if you replace Scottie with any of those 4.

[Thaddy]

Mobley took the 3rd most FGA on the Cavs and had the 3rd highest usage. How is he a 4th option?

Barnes doesn't have a clearly defined role because he doesn't have the skills to have a clear role. He can't score well enough to be an on-ball creator. He hasn't shown he can play like a more traditional big.

I don't care about creation issues. Barnes creating for us had led us nowhere. Prepare yourself to see Barnes creation drop even more with Ingram on board. Mobley does not need to create because he floor raises elsewhere.

Barnes has not proven to be a more versatile defender. Mobley guarded more iso and pnr ball handler possessions than Barnes last year AND put up better defensive stats doing so. Mobley guarded more FGA (on better DFG% than Barnes) and guarded more 3pt attempts (again, on better DFG% than Barnes).

If you put Mobley on a rebuilding team he would actually be able to floor raise them because he's an elite big man defender. Barnes has shown no such ability.

What impact do you think playing with all star level guards has? Nothing lol?

Tell me about Mobleys creation skills too. I'm waiting.

Why does it matter? It’s clear at this point that neither Mobley or Scottie are first option players.

Wouldn’t you rather have the more malleable 3rd option caliber player that just won a DPOY?

I still think Scottie is an all star caliber player but it’s pretty clear that Franz, Cade, Mobley and Sengun are above him at this point.

Our team gets considerably better if you replace Scottie with any of those 4.

Not true all those guys play with better guards than Scottie. Mobley winning DPOTY is more about playing next to Allen and coaching than his own skillset.

Barnes is the better player for a championship caliber team. If you put him on the Cavs instead they wouldn't change at all. They are equal value and I'd give Barnes the higher potential.