GT: Bulls @ Cavaliers - 6 CT

[Red Larrivee]

Kinda. Come combine, he was a known commodity, though.

People knew about him and he still wasn't a firm first rounder or believed to have clear all-star potential. Find the number of times anyone talked about him at length in the draft threads.

Him becoming a superstar would not mean the Bulls evaluated the draft poorly. It's not like he was some clear franchise player and they took a mid talent instead.

There was hesitation to mock him high since he popped up out of nowhere... But I don’t think it’s all that comparable to a Jokic. International scouting has improved since 10Y ago (and it will continue to evolve), and I think the old/known draft beat writers are probably falling behind the times. Esp. ESPN, whose draft night ratings are proving to be a joke besides the most obvious choices (A+ for Flagg).

Yang wasn’t picked during a Taco Bell commercial. He was on boards; some people had him mocked in the first, even top-15.

NBA execs know that international prospects are better than ever. Their fault if they let pre-conceived notions dismiss options from their selection. I’m just saying- more and more, it looks like AK didn’t find Jokic. Jokic found AK. His draft vision hasn’t been good. And if Yang turns out to be the real deal, I certainly will hold it against him as it won’t be an isolated mistake of picking the lesser talent in a smaller pool of options. It won’t be my last straw with AK… but, it will be another slip in a dozen.

Hansen Yang:

ESPN: 36
Yahoo: 36
The Athletic: 36
No Ceilings: 36
Bleacher Report: 39
Net Scouts: 40
The Ringer: 2nd Round
SB Nation: 2nd Round
USA Today: 36

He was a consensus 2nd round pick and Portland picked him at 16. It was one of the most surprising picks of the night. Hey, maybe Portland ends up being right. But, let's not sit here and act like he was a solid 1st round pick and everyone was asleep at the wheel. If AK would've taken Yang at the Bulls pick, this board would've revolted. Be for real.

There are still plenty of international prospects who are busts. Remember when people were losing their minds over Poku and swore up and down he was going to be a unicorn? Killian Hayes? Sekou Doumbouya? Yang's archetype does not have a likely history of success, and it's not like he's played against strong competition either.

Do GMs and executives get paid good money to predict the future? Yes. But, even with hours, days, months and years of preparation, there is a **** ton of luck involved in it, especially when it comes to the draft. Just because someone drafted Jokic, doesn't mean they're going to find the next Jokic or even be good at drafting other prospects.

AK is bad at the draft, but if Yang becomes a superstar I'm not going to use it against him. **** happens.

[rosenthall]

Because it’s fun to stupidly overreact to a single preseason game, I will say my takeaway was that Essengue is going to play himself into a role at some point this season. His physically ability really sort of pops in a notable way.

I don't know if he'll get a lot of minutes this year, but I'm going to bet by the 20 game mark Essengue will leap frog Terry & Phillips as our end-of-roster guy to bring in defense and change of pace, and by EoY I won't be surprised if he catches Pat too, but that might just be because Pat ends up really sucking. Billy will probably keep him in the doghouse to begin the year, and I'm fine with that.

I agree that Noa flashed really well. I think his offense will be bad the whole year, but his foul drawing and defensive activity look really good to me.

[Indomitable]

Get ready for consistent 10pt deficits in the first qtr. The starting lineup won’t stop anyone, forcing the reserves to clean up their mess. Fortunately the Bulls arguably have a top 5 bench that will outplay most teams.

I won’t be surprised if Giddey gets benched to close out tight games.

Any starting/closing lineup without Giddey (and Coby) is also going to be getting into consistent deficits because they can't score on anyone.

Defense is not even 50% of the the NBA game.

I’m not sure if your last sentence is a serious statement.

The Bulls don’t lose much without Giddey, especially if Jones is playing well. Giddey also hurts you on offense due to his defender playing free safety. Time will tell if his off dribble 3pt shooting will improve.

Giddey was fantastic last year and he was one of the primary reason they closed so strong.

Giddey is the second or third best rebounder on this team.

[eierluke]

I Like doughtonus pov:
A good pick ist a Pick that at least Had a Chance to become succesfull by the time ist had been done.
It doesn't Matter wheather IT eventually Turns Out good.

Bad picks are picks where this chance never existed.
The Terry - Philipps comparison ist a good one.
Terry was a bad pick here, even if he eventually will turn out to become the better player

[eierluke]

Not a PWill fan here, but I hope that a backup role minders his stress and he might be a guy, who feels more comforable in a very fix determed role

[burlydee]

Main takeaways:

Okoro v Huerter should be interesting but ultimately think Okoro is the starter. His ability to guard teams best perimeter player is crucial with Coby and Giddey.

Jones looked really good as the first guy off the bench. He’s still getting better and should be one of better back up point guards in the league this year.

Interesting that Terry and Phillips got minutes before Pat. I thought Pat played better, but I don’t think it was a fluke. I really don’t see the point of Phillips. He has not gotten better at all.

I thought Essengue played okay, but looked like he needs to do a lot of work on his body. I don’t expect him to play a ton unless/until PWill is traded or the season is truly in the tank.

Didn’t think Vuc or Giddey played particularly hard.

It’s preseason Hard to tell much. But glad basketball is back.

[The Force.]

Giddey was fantastic last year and he was one of the primary reason they closed so strong.

Giddey is the second or third best rebounder on this team.

Giddey looked good when we were bum slaying in March. I’m more concerned with how he looks against playoff teams.

[Ccwatercraft]

Tre Jones continues where he stopped until injury stpped him:
12 min 4/5 fg, 2/2 frth,
4 stl, 2 ast 0 tov
+16 (team high)

What else do you want from a 8 mio backup?

I'm still curious where his ceiling is, he's been stuck behind good players but has played very efficiently when given an opportunity.

[Ccwatercraft]

Bulls are going to need to consider cutting the loss and stretch waiving him after this year. If he doesn’t take a huge leap mentally, he will be not only untradable, but also taking roster time from other players. Stretch-waive will open up more cap space, and also reinforce some accountability.

What an awful draft choice (always the risk with risers) - and a worse resign decision given that AKME should have known what they had on their hands by then.

If my math is right that's 8 mil x7 years? Vs 18x3.

Ugh... I'd almost keep him we have some massive fa move this offseason

Yeah. I just don't see the upside to spreading out that hit. It sucks, but once you cut him, he's dead money that there's no getting back.

Really, the Bulls should be taking on another guy like this (or trading Pat for a better player with an even worse contract) because they don't have much prospect for using the cap otherwise.

True, he might make sense in a filler slot where it's bad for bad. Frankly if he just gets his defense back and can fill spot minutes and hit an open 3 then I'm fine with it.

Dead money makes no sense, we still have room under the tax and a tpe iirc, so there are several players that could be moved for a big but somewhat ugly contract, or we could absorb someone smallish.

[dougthonus]

It’s only my SL hot take, but Yang looks special. He can’t speak English, yet he was making all types of amazing reads with random SL players. His IQ and skills are wild for his size and athleticism.

I agree he’d be a big risk for the Bulls since he came out of nowhere, but I’d like our “Jokic mastermind” AK to be able to correctly locate the Giannis/Jokic drops of the drafts…

It is certainly what you are paying guys millions to do.

We’ll have to see once he plays NBA reg. season. Blazers coaching staff and vets are already talking about Yang like he’s the real deal.

We'll see, and I don't mean to be too down on Yang, but our guys were talking about Pat like he was the real deal since day 1. I'll just wait and see. I also think he looked good in summer league, but I've just seen that movie before too.

[Chi town]

Solid first run, but I need to see Ayo in the starting lineup next game. If the Bulls don't have Coby's scoring, Ayo and Okoro defensive pressure has to turn into a thing.

This team is not far away from Matas Buzelis and Noa Essengue starting at the forward positions. Isaac Okoro will be a solid reserve small forward.

That’s what I’m thinking too.
Buz will have to take a step as a defender.

[rosenthall]

Tre Jones continues where he stopped until injury stpped him:
12 min 4/5 fg, 2/2 frth,
4 stl, 2 ast 0 tov
+16 (team high)

What else do you want from a 8 mio backup?

I'm still curious where his ceiling is, he's been stuck behind good players but has played very efficiently when given an opportunity.

He's a guy who has really flown under the radar for most of his career, but has always been effective everywhere he's played.

With the Bulls he had a net rating of +22(!), which is absurdly high, so I looked at this stat compared to his team for the year, and these are the results:

24-25 Bulls: + 22, think we were about +5 after the All Star Break overall
24-25 Spurs: +9 / -2.8
23-24 Spurs: + 5 / -6.4
22-23 Spurs: -3 / -9.4
21-22 Spurs: +6 / +0.1
20-21 Spurs: -5 / -1.7

Outside of his rookie year when he barely played, his teams have always been massively better with him on the court. Ironically, I think he really suffered from the Spurs drafting Wembanyama. Since they wanted to continue to tank after drafting him they had to curtail his minutes with him because they were too effective.

Here are the two man lineup splits for the Spurs that year: https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/traditional?GroupQuantity=2&Season=2023-24&TeamID=1610612759&dir=D&slug=traditional&sort=MIN

Him and Wemby had the highest plus/minus among the top 20 pairings for the team, and second place was Jones / Vassell. Almost all other pairings were negative.

They were playing Jeremy **** Sochan at PG a lot that year, so you can't tell me it was like the Spurs had better options. They had to curtail his role to help the analytics tank.

One thing that surprised me after trading for him is how aggressive he plays. A big part of his value is his low turnover ratio, but I always assumed he played like Jerian Grant to get it. Just stand at the top of the key and pound the ball until an obvious pass is staring at you in the face. But he plays quite aggressively and attacks on both defense and offense.

[sco]

Tre Jones continues where he stopped until injury stpped him:
12 min 4/5 fg, 2/2 frth,
4 stl, 2 ast 0 tov
+16 (team high)

What else do you want from a 8 mio backup?

I'm still curious where his ceiling is, he's been stuck behind good players but has played very efficiently when given an opportunity.

He's a guy who has really flown under the radar for most of his career, but has always been effective everywhere he's played.

With the Bulls he had a net rating of +22(!), which is absurdly high, so I looked at this stat compared to his team for the year, and these are the results:

24-25 Bulls: + 22, think we were about +5 after the All Star Break overall
24-25 Spurs: +9 / -2.8
23-24 Spurs: + 5 / -6.4
22-23 Spurs: -3 / -9.4
21-22 Spurs: +6 / +0.1
20-21 Spurs: -5 / -1.7

Outside of his rookie year when he barely played, his teams have always been massively better with him on the court. Ironically, I think he really suffered from the Spurs drafting Wembanyama. Since they wanted to continue to tank after drafting him they had to curtail his minutes with him because they were too effective.

Here are the two man lineup splits for the Spurs that year: https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/traditional?GroupQuantity=2&Season=2023-24&TeamID=1610612759&dir=D&slug=traditional&sort=MIN

Him and Wemby had the highest plus/minus among the top 20 pairings for the team, and second place was Jones / Vassell. Almost all other pairings were negative.

They were playing Jeremy **** Sochan at PG a lot that year, so you can't tell me it was like the Spurs had better options. They had to curtail his role to help the analytics tank.

One thing that surprised me after trading for him is how aggressive he plays. A big part of his value is his low turnover ratio, but I always assumed he played like Jerian Grant to get it. Just stand at the top of the key and pound the ball until an obvious pass is staring at you in the face. But he plays quite aggressively and attacks on both defense and offense.

I've was not a fan after the trade. Thought he was a throw-in expiring. To his credit I understand that he was key in AK's mind. After watching him, last season, I recall saying that he brought much of what we wanted, but weren't getting from Lonzo and Ayo. He's a near-elite POA defender, a decent playmaker/passer and a surprisingly good finisher at the rim. Reminds me of a young McConnell.

[bullskokie]

Good to be back! Quick question though, do we still have access to CHSN antenna?

[jnrjr79]

Good to be back! Quick question though, do we still have access to CHSN antenna?

Not if you're in Chicagoland. They took away free OTA here into order to enter Into a deal with Comcast. They are still OTA in some other markets, though.

[bullskokie]

Good to be back! Quick question though, do we still have access to CHSN antenna?

Not if you're in Chicagoland. They took away free OTA here into order to enter Into a deal with Comcast. They are still OTA in some other markets, though.

Thank you!

[DuckIII]

So, so very late to the party. Did not watch it until today. Real quick:

1. Both Tre and Ayo looked great. I really don't know what we will do with the guard situation. Given Tre's bargain deal, I think we need to try to trade Ayo for draft assets, much as I'd hate to do it. If we're keeping Coby, we just don't have room for both Tre and Ayo.

2. I get the PaTSD. As one of his biggest believers I might have it worse than anyone. But I don't get the posts in this thread. I'm a Pat expert. I have paid close attention to, and posted lamentations about, every single opening to the season where he always looks inexcusably sluggish for several games minimum. This is the best opening Pat has ever had in his entire career, take it for what its worth. He was engaged at all times, decisive, and aggressive. He hasn't looked like that in 2 years. The one thing that does concern me is that I don't think he really lost any weight. I suspect the reason he isn't saying the number is because its like 3 pounds.

3. Essengue will be able to contribute as a role player better than either Phillips or Terry, and pretty quickly if not immediately. The only reason they should get any time over Noa is if BD determines too much playing time too quickly would hurt Noa's development. But other than that, Terry and Phillips should not see the court on a healthy Bulls team.

4. How to say this without jinxing it? Matas is pretty obviously going to be an NBA star. Oops, I don't think that was delicate enough.

[sco]

So are we using this thread again for tonights game? On that topic, could I impose on you, my friends here, to message me with a link to where one might stream the game?

[Indomitable]

So, so very late to the party. Did not watch it until today. Real quick:

1. Both Tre and Ayo looked great. I really don't know what we will do with the guard situation. Given Tre's bargain deal, I think we need to try to trade Ayo for draft assets, much as I'd hate to do it. If we're keeping Coby, we just don't have room for both Tre and Ayo.

Why not. This is not the 90s. Ayo can play bigger then his size and plays well with most of the other players. He is a two way player on a team the desperately need two players. He is a team leader. He is part of the positive culture.

Tre is Alonzo replacement. Coby took Zach's role. Who exactly is Ayo blocking Heuter? I would take Ayo everytime.

If you were talking about a bunch of 6'0 footers I would agree with you.

[PaKii94]

So, so very late to the party. Did not watch it until today. Real quick:

1. Both Tre and Ayo looked great. I really don't know what we will do with the guard situation. Given Tre's bargain deal, I think we need to try to trade Ayo for draft assets, much as I'd hate to do it. If we're keeping Coby, we just don't have room for both Tre and Ayo.

Why not. This is not the 90s. Ayo can play bigger then his size and plays well with most of the other players. He is a two way player on a team the desperately need two players. He is a team leader. He is part of the positive culture.

Tre is Alonzo replacement. Coby took Zach's role. Who exactly is Ayo blocking Heuter? I would take Ayo everytime.

If you were talking about a bunch of 6'0 footers I would agree with you.

Yup only tre I would say is pure 1 sized. I see our 1-3 being a rotation of giddey/Coby/ayo/Tre/okoro with heuter sprinkled in.