2025-26 Off-Season

[JujitsuFlip]

Starters looked good. The bench group we played does not have enough shot-making. Mobley had some that-dude isos that looked good. Lonzo and Nance looked a little slow. Proctor came out on fire. CPJ has had good passes and good off-the-dribble shooting.

I wonder why Kenny went with Tomlin over Bryant. Or was it Nance over Bryant and Tomlin would've been out there either way?

Well I did say we shouldn't get our hopes too high on Bryant until we actually get to see him, although it could be as simple as Tomlin just has more experience with these guys and/or is trying harder in practice.

Bryant had two chances to win the game for us ... botched them both getting stuffed on both attempts.

Looked like he had two 3 pointers though hahahah.

[jbk1234]

I wonder why Kenny went with Tomlin over Bryant. Or was it Nance over Bryant and Tomlin would've been out there either way?

Well I did say we shouldn't get our hopes too high on Bryant until we actually get to see him, although it could be as simple as Tomlin just has more experience with these guys and/or is trying harder in practice.

Bryant had two chances to win the game for us ... botched them both getting stuffed on both attempts.

Looked like he had two 3 pointers though hahahah.

It's a single preseason game, but none of the backup bigs impressed. I think Nance might be cooked. Tomlin wasn't a capable defender. Bryant was borderline unplayable. Wade was Wade and the best of the bunch. I really hope the Pacers cut Bradley loose.

Tyson looked better than last year especially on the defensive end. Proctor's a rookie, but he may not be an NBA player. Travers (who still struggles to get his shot up around the rim) and CPJ played with type of energy they're going to need to stay in the NBA.

Hunter did not look all that impressive as a starter and I thought Ball was underwhelming. I suspect Tyson may end up as the starting 3 by the end of the season.

[JonFromVA]

Well I did say we shouldn't get our hopes too high on Bryant until we actually get to see him, although it could be as simple as Tomlin just has more experience with these guys and/or is trying harder in practice.

Bryant had two chances to win the game for us ... botched them both getting stuffed on both attempts.

Looked like he had two 3 pointers though hahahah.

It's a single preseason game, but none of the backup bigs impressed. I think Nance might be cooked. Tomlin wasn't a capable defender. Bryant was borderline unplayable. Wade was Wade and the best of the bunch. I really hope the Pacers cut Bradley loose.

Tyson looked better than last year especially on the defensive end. Proctor's a rookie, but he may not be an NBA player. Travers (who still struggles to get his shot up around the rim) and CPJ played with type of energy they're going to need to stay in the NBA.

Hunter did not look all that impressive as a starter and I thought Ball was underwhelming. I suspect Tyson may end up as the starting 3 by the end of the season.

I thought Hunter looked great. His handles looked good, shot good, played under control, made shots, etc. Did you mix him up with someone else or were you hoping for more than 1 assist from him? *shrugs*

And Proctor looked fantastic, not just his shooting, but his ball handling and finishing. CPJ is making his claim for minutes with Garland out. I think Tomlin still looks very intriguing but needs to play every day and continue to develop.

I thought Nance looked fine, but Lonzo definitely accepted a back seat and let CPJ run things and didn't do much other than keeping the ball moving. Tyson is going to have to do something productive on offense. The idea of him fitting in with the starters is that he needs to do more than just hustle and defense, he needs to knock down shots and figure out how to contribute without being the primary ball handler.

And sure would be nice if Wade could take a step and become a more consistent knock down shooter, but still no signs of that.

I happen to have Peacock on a free trial this week, but the NBA having games on paid steaming services and not on LP is going to be problematic. Amazon Prime is one thing, me and half the country have that, but Peacock? Really?

[jbk1234]

Looked like he had two 3 pointers though hahahah.

It's a single preseason game, but none of the backup bigs impressed. I think Nance might be cooked. Tomlin wasn't a capable defender. Bryant was borderline unplayable. Wade was Wade and the best of the bunch. I really hope the Pacers cut Bradley loose.

Tyson looked better than last year especially on the defensive end. Proctor's a rookie, but he may not be an NBA player. Travers (who still struggles to get his shot up around the rim) and CPJ played with type of energy they're going to need to stay in the NBA.

Hunter did not look all that impressive as a starter and I thought Ball was underwhelming. I suspect Tyson may end up as the starting 3 by the end of the season.

I thought Hunter looked great. His handles looked good, shot good, played under control, made shots, etc. Did you mix him up with someone else or were you hoping for more than 1 assist from him? *shrugs*

And Proctor looked fantastic, not just his shooting, but his ball handling and finishing. CPJ is making his claim for minutes with Garland out. I think Tomlin still looks very intriguing but needs to play every day and continue to develop.

I thought Nance looked fine, but Lonzo definitely accepted a back seat and let CPJ run things and didn't do much other than keeping the ball moving. Tyson is going to have to do something productive on offense. The idea of him fitting in with the starters is that he needs to do more than just hustle and defense, he needs to knock down shots and figure out how to contribute without being the primary ball handler.

And sure would be nice if Wade could take a step and become a more consistent knock down shooter, but still no signs of that.

I happen to have Peacock on a free trial this week, but the NBA having games on paid steaming services and not on LP is going to be problematic. Amazon Prime is one thing, me and half the country have that, but Peacock? Really?

I thought Hunter's defense underwhelmed inasmuch as whoever plays the 3 for us is going to have to be the POA defender for the team (in specific matchups, you can get creative and switch Mobley out while playing Hunter at the 4). It's why I think Tyson could be the eventual starter. It's preseason, and Balll has an injury history so maybe he wasn't playing in top gear, but I thought his defense was awfully uninspired.

Basically, I felt like we struggled to keep the Bulls out of the paint and it was really pronounced when both Allen and Mobley were off the floor as only Wade provided any type of rim protection.

I'm not drawing any hard conclusions after a single preseason game, but Strus is the only plus defender who's missing. Garland and Merrill aren't fixing what I saw yesterday, and they're more likely to have a positive net impact based on their offensive ability.

[toooskies]

Well I did say we shouldn't get our hopes too high on Bryant until we actually get to see him, although it could be as simple as Tomlin just has more experience with these guys and/or is trying harder in practice.

Bryant had two chances to win the game for us ... botched them both getting stuffed on both attempts.

Looked like he had two 3 pointers though hahahah.

It's a single preseason game, but none of the backup bigs impressed. I think Nance might be cooked. Tomlin wasn't a capable defender. Bryant was borderline unplayable. Wade was Wade and the best of the bunch. I really hope the Pacers cut Bradley loose.

Tyson looked better than last year especially on the defensive end. Proctor's a rookie, but he may not be an NBA player. Travers (who still struggles to get his shot up around the rim) and CPJ played with type of energy they're going to need to stay in the NBA.

Hunter did not look all that impressive as a starter and I thought Ball was underwhelming. I suspect Tyson may end up as the starting 3 by the end of the season.

I thought similarly about Nance in his first shift but I thought he looked better as time went along. Looks like he's still getting conditioned as his threes were missing short. I'll still take 11 points, 5 attempted threes, 4/4 on twos, 4 assists, 2 steals in 18 minutes any given night.

I agree on Bryant, he looked very slow. He shot well, including a pull-up that he should only take in the 4th quarter of a preseason game. He probably shows up to camp out of shape, which is why Miami sent him to Indiana last year, and that's probably why he was the third-string C rather than pushing Nance to PF on the second team. Either that or Kenny wanted to see Nance at C and give the third team a true big too.

I liked the length we had on defense in the first unit, even though we'll rarely play that big. Hunter with Allen/Mobley isn't Markkanen but it's reminiscent enough with the length to cause trouble. Missing Garland/Strus/Merrill means we're going to play smaller more typically.

CPJ was fine but I worry that he's mostly an on-ball player and unless Mitchell/Garland are injured he won't get much on-ball time. Pretty sure all his threes were pull-ups.

I thought Proctor played well. He looked comfortable being a movement shooter and he also got some good shots off the dribble. But he was playing against 2nd/3rd units. Might be a mirage but he's earned more chances.

We might go into the year with Ball and Wade but they could both be expendable by the end of the season for tax bill savings. And then we're one move away (think something like Strus for Jalen Smith) from ducking the tax.

[JujitsuFlip]

How did Hayes look my friends? Destined for the Charge or making Koby rethink his stance on spot 15?

[jbk1234]

Looked like he had two 3 pointers though hahahah.

It's a single preseason game, but none of the backup bigs impressed. I think Nance might be cooked. Tomlin wasn't a capable defender. Bryant was borderline unplayable. Wade was Wade and the best of the bunch. I really hope the Pacers cut Bradley loose.

Tyson looked better than last year especially on the defensive end. Proctor's a rookie, but he may not be an NBA player. Travers (who still struggles to get his shot up around the rim) and CPJ played with type of energy they're going to need to stay in the NBA.

Hunter did not look all that impressive as a starter and I thought Ball was underwhelming. I suspect Tyson may end up as the starting 3 by the end of the season.

I thought similarly about Nance in his first shift but I thought he looked better as time went along. Looks like he's still getting conditioned as his threes were missing short. I'll still take 11 points, 5 attempted threes, 4/4 on twos, 4 assists, 2 steals in 18 minutes any given night.

I agree on Bryant, he looked very slow. He shot well, including a pull-up that he should only take in the 4th quarter of a preseason game. He probably shows up to camp out of shape, which is why Miami sent him to Indiana last year, and that's probably why he was the third-string C rather than pushing Nance to PF on the second team. Either that or Kenny wanted to see Nance at C and give the third team a true big too.

I liked the length we had on defense in the first unit, even though we'll rarely play that big. Hunter with Allen/Mobley isn't Markkanen but it's reminiscent enough with the length to cause trouble. Missing Garland/Strus/Merrill means we're going to play smaller more typically.

CPJ was fine but I worry that he's mostly an on-ball player and unless Mitchell/Garland are injured he won't get much on-ball time. Pretty sure all his threes were pull-ups.

I thought Proctor played well. He looked comfortable being a movement shooter and he also got some good shots off the dribble. But he was playing against 2nd/3rd units. Might be a mirage but he's earned more chances.

We might go into the year with Ball and Wade but they could both be expendable by the end of the season for tax bill savings. And then we're one move away (think something like Strus for Jalen Smith) from ducking the tax.

I would hope we don't make moves based on tax bill savings this season. If they want to do so next summer, fine. It's only a single preseason game, but nothing I saw yesterday leads me to believe that Wade and Strus wouldn't be missed defensively.

[toooskies]

It's a single preseason game, but none of the backup bigs impressed. I think Nance might be cooked. Tomlin wasn't a capable defender. Bryant was borderline unplayable. Wade was Wade and the best of the bunch. I really hope the Pacers cut Bradley loose.

Tyson looked better than last year especially on the defensive end. Proctor's a rookie, but he may not be an NBA player. Travers (who still struggles to get his shot up around the rim) and CPJ played with type of energy they're going to need to stay in the NBA.

Hunter did not look all that impressive as a starter and I thought Ball was underwhelming. I suspect Tyson may end up as the starting 3 by the end of the season.

I thought similarly about Nance in his first shift but I thought he looked better as time went along. Looks like he's still getting conditioned as his threes were missing short. I'll still take 11 points, 5 attempted threes, 4/4 on twos, 4 assists, 2 steals in 18 minutes any given night.

I agree on Bryant, he looked very slow. He shot well, including a pull-up that he should only take in the 4th quarter of a preseason game. He probably shows up to camp out of shape, which is why Miami sent him to Indiana last year, and that's probably why he was the third-string C rather than pushing Nance to PF on the second team. Either that or Kenny wanted to see Nance at C and give the third team a true big too.

I liked the length we had on defense in the first unit, even though we'll rarely play that big. Hunter with Allen/Mobley isn't Markkanen but it's reminiscent enough with the length to cause trouble. Missing Garland/Strus/Merrill means we're going to play smaller more typically.

CPJ was fine but I worry that he's mostly an on-ball player and unless Mitchell/Garland are injured he won't get much on-ball time. Pretty sure all his threes were pull-ups.

I thought Proctor played well. He looked comfortable being a movement shooter and he also got some good shots off the dribble. But he was playing against 2nd/3rd units. Might be a mirage but he's earned more chances.

We might go into the year with Ball and Wade but they could both be expendable by the end of the season for tax bill savings. And then we're one move away (think something like Strus for Jalen Smith) from ducking the tax.

I would hope we don't make moves based on tax bill savings this season. If they want to do so next summer, fine. It's only a single preseason game, but nothing I saw yesterday leads me to believe that Wade and Strus wouldn't be missed defensively.

I’m not saying we should, I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised. Kenny isn’t JBB and if Ball and Wade end up being defensive specialists, they might not keep their playing time. And if they don’t, it’s hard to justify the $50m+ that keeping them adds to the tax. (I have no idea what the actual tax savings would be.)

[JonFromVA]

It's a single preseason game, but none of the backup bigs impressed. I think Nance might be cooked. Tomlin wasn't a capable defender. Bryant was borderline unplayable. Wade was Wade and the best of the bunch. I really hope the Pacers cut Bradley loose.

Tyson looked better than last year especially on the defensive end. Proctor's a rookie, but he may not be an NBA player. Travers (who still struggles to get his shot up around the rim) and CPJ played with type of energy they're going to need to stay in the NBA.

Hunter did not look all that impressive as a starter and I thought Ball was underwhelming. I suspect Tyson may end up as the starting 3 by the end of the season.

I thought Hunter looked great. His handles looked good, shot good, played under control, made shots, etc. Did you mix him up with someone else or were you hoping for more than 1 assist from him? *shrugs*

And Proctor looked fantastic, not just his shooting, but his ball handling and finishing. CPJ is making his claim for minutes with Garland out. I think Tomlin still looks very intriguing but needs to play every day and continue to develop.

I thought Nance looked fine, but Lonzo definitely accepted a back seat and let CPJ run things and didn't do much other than keeping the ball moving. Tyson is going to have to do something productive on offense. The idea of him fitting in with the starters is that he needs to do more than just hustle and defense, he needs to knock down shots and figure out how to contribute without being the primary ball handler.

And sure would be nice if Wade could take a step and become a more consistent knock down shooter, but still no signs of that.

I happen to have Peacock on a free trial this week, but the NBA having games on paid steaming services and not on LP is going to be problematic. Amazon Prime is one thing, me and half the country have that, but Peacock? Really?

I thought Hunter's defense underwhelmed inasmuch as whoever plays the 3 for us is going to have to be the POA defender for the team (in specific matchups, you can get creative and switch Mobley out while playing Hunter at the 4). It's why I think Tyson could be the eventual starter. It's preseason, and Balll has an injury history so maybe he wasn't playing in top gear, but I thought his defense was awfully uninspired.

Basically, I felt like we struggled to keep the Bulls out of the paint and it was really pronounced when both Allen and Mobley were off the floor as only Wade provided any type of rim protection.

I'm not drawing any hard conclusions after a single preseason game, but Strus is the only plus defender who's missing. Garland and Merrill aren't fixing what I saw yesterday, and they're more likely to have a positive net impact based on their offensive ability.

You watched the game, right? You saw we were doing hockey shifts? and presumably Tyson is just a placeholder since Sam wasn't available for whatever reason.

A game this early in the pre-season would typically have been the W&G scrimmage. Did they even do that this year?

One of Mobley or Allen will be on the floor most of the time when the regular season rolls around.

[jbk1234]

I thought similarly about Nance in his first shift but I thought he looked better as time went along. Looks like he's still getting conditioned as his threes were missing short. I'll still take 11 points, 5 attempted threes, 4/4 on twos, 4 assists, 2 steals in 18 minutes any given night.

I agree on Bryant, he looked very slow. He shot well, including a pull-up that he should only take in the 4th quarter of a preseason game. He probably shows up to camp out of shape, which is why Miami sent him to Indiana last year, and that's probably why he was the third-string C rather than pushing Nance to PF on the second team. Either that or Kenny wanted to see Nance at C and give the third team a true big too.

I liked the length we had on defense in the first unit, even though we'll rarely play that big. Hunter with Allen/Mobley isn't Markkanen but it's reminiscent enough with the length to cause trouble. Missing Garland/Strus/Merrill means we're going to play smaller more typically.

CPJ was fine but I worry that he's mostly an on-ball player and unless Mitchell/Garland are injured he won't get much on-ball time. Pretty sure all his threes were pull-ups.

I thought Proctor played well. He looked comfortable being a movement shooter and he also got some good shots off the dribble. But he was playing against 2nd/3rd units. Might be a mirage but he's earned more chances.

We might go into the year with Ball and Wade but they could both be expendable by the end of the season for tax bill savings. And then we're one move away (think something like Strus for Jalen Smith) from ducking the tax.

I would hope we don't make moves based on tax bill savings this season. If they want to do so next summer, fine. It's only a single preseason game, but nothing I saw yesterday leads me to believe that Wade and Strus wouldn't be missed defensively.

I’m not saying we should, I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised. Kenny isn’t JBB and if Ball and Wade end up being defensive specialists, they might not keep their playing time. And if they don’t, it’s hard to justify the $50m+ that keeping them adds to the tax. (I have no idea what the actual tax savings would be.)

If Kenny doesn't plan on shoring up the defensive side of the ball in his rotations, he should re-watch the Pacers series. For that matter, if we're not trying to get longer and more athletic off the bench, we should've just cut Ball (who wasn't fully guaranteed) immediately after the trade and re-signed Jerome. I'd like to believe there's some shared vision between Altman and Atkinson here.

[JujitsuFlip]

I thought Hunter looked great. His handles looked good, shot good, played under control, made shots, etc. Did you mix him up with someone else or were you hoping for more than 1 assist from him? *shrugs*

And Proctor looked fantastic, not just his shooting, but his ball handling and finishing. CPJ is making his claim for minutes with Garland out. I think Tomlin still looks very intriguing but needs to play every day and continue to develop.

I thought Nance looked fine, but Lonzo definitely accepted a back seat and let CPJ run things and didn't do much other than keeping the ball moving. Tyson is going to have to do something productive on offense. The idea of him fitting in with the starters is that he needs to do more than just hustle and defense, he needs to knock down shots and figure out how to contribute without being the primary ball handler.

And sure would be nice if Wade could take a step and become a more consistent knock down shooter, but still no signs of that.

I happen to have Peacock on a free trial this week, but the NBA having games on paid steaming services and not on LP is going to be problematic. Amazon Prime is one thing, me and half the country have that, but Peacock? Really?

I thought Hunter's defense underwhelmed inasmuch as whoever plays the 3 for us is going to have to be the POA defender for the team (in specific matchups, you can get creative and switch Mobley out while playing Hunter at the 4). It's why I think Tyson could be the eventual starter. It's preseason, and Balll has an injury history so maybe he wasn't playing in top gear, but I thought his defense was awfully uninspired.

Basically, I felt like we struggled to keep the Bulls out of the paint and it was really pronounced when both Allen and Mobley were off the floor as only Wade provided any type of rim protection.

I'm not drawing any hard conclusions after a single preseason game, but Strus is the only plus defender who's missing. Garland and Merrill aren't fixing what I saw yesterday, and they're more likely to have a positive net impact based on their offensive ability.

You watched the game, right? You saw we were doing hockey shifts? and presumably Tyson is just a placeholder since Sam wasn't available for whatever reason.

A game this early in the pre-season would typically have been the W&G scrimmage. Did they even do that this year?

One of Mobley or Allen will be on the floor most of the time when the regular season rolls around.

Turns out it's an abductor injury for Sammy.

[toooskies]

I would hope we don't make moves based on tax bill savings this season. If they want to do so next summer, fine. It's only a single preseason game, but nothing I saw yesterday leads me to believe that Wade and Strus wouldn't be missed defensively.

I’m not saying we should, I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised. Kenny isn’t JBB and if Ball and Wade end up being defensive specialists, they might not keep their playing time. And if they don’t, it’s hard to justify the $50m+ that keeping them adds to the tax. (I have no idea what the actual tax savings would be.)

If Kenny doesn't plan on shoring up the defensive side of the ball in his rotations, he should re-watch the Pacers series. For that matter, if we're not trying to get longer and more athletic off the bench, we should've just cut Ball (who wasn't fully guaranteed) immediately after the trade and re-signed Jerome. I'd like to believe there's some shared vision between Altman and Atkinson here.

From what I can tell trading Ball and Wade for nothing and then signing G-Leaguers to <$2m combined in salary for February through April could save $~80m in tax in addition to whatever payroll they have left. Are (typically performing) Dean Wade and (in this case a poorly performing) Lonzo Ball worth more than $80m relative to our chances of winning a title? If Tyson/CPJ/Proctor look ready, do you take the $80+m bet that a lack of two mediocre backups meaningfully changes your title odds?

And after that if you trade Strus for a rotation guy making $10m or less (Jalen Smith? TJ McConnell? Matisse Thybulle?), you're under the 2nd apron. And you still have Garland/Mitchell/Hunter/Mobley/Allen with Merrill/Nance/CPJ/Tyson/Proctor/Bryant/<Strus trade return>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>, because under the 2nd apron your G-Leaguers can be upgraded to buyout guys. (Maybe trade Merrill for a minimum guy instead of Strus for a $10m guy?)

It doesn't really pay to cut those guys now, but it may make sense at the deadline if it doesn't seem to affect our title odds.

[JonFromVA]

I’m not saying we should, I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised. Kenny isn’t JBB and if Ball and Wade end up being defensive specialists, they might not keep their playing time. And if they don’t, it’s hard to justify the $50m+ that keeping them adds to the tax. (I have no idea what the actual tax savings would be.)

If Kenny doesn't plan on shoring up the defensive side of the ball in his rotations, he should re-watch the Pacers series. For that matter, if we're not trying to get longer and more athletic off the bench, we should've just cut Ball (who wasn't fully guaranteed) immediately after the trade and re-signed Jerome. I'd like to believe there's some shared vision between Altman and Atkinson here.

From what I can tell trading Ball and Wade for nothing and then signing G-Leaguers to <$2m combined in salary for February through April could save $~80m in tax in addition to whatever payroll they have left. Are (typically performing) Dean Wade and (in this case a poorly performing) Lonzo Ball worth more than $80m relative to our chances of winning a title? If Tyson/CPJ/Proctor look ready, do you take the $80+m bet that a lack of two mediocre backups meaningfully changes your title odds?

And after that if you trade Strus for a rotation guy making $10m or less (Jalen Smith? TJ McConnell? Matisse Thybulle?), you're under the 2nd apron. And you still have Garland/Mitchell/Hunter/Mobley/Allen with Merrill/Nance/CPJ/Tyson/Proctor/Bryant/<Strus trade return>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>, because under the 2nd apron your G-Leaguers can be upgraded to buyout guys. (Maybe trade Merrill for a minimum guy instead of Strus for a $10m guy?)

It doesn't really pay to cut those guys now, but it may make sense at the deadline if it doesn't seem to affect our title odds.

Under the second Apron? Buyout guys?

Go on, tie a bow around that ribbon.

It would open the door for LeBron part III.

[JujitsuFlip]

If Kenny doesn't plan on shoring up the defensive side of the ball in his rotations, he should re-watch the Pacers series. For that matter, if we're not trying to get longer and more athletic off the bench, we should've just cut Ball (who wasn't fully guaranteed) immediately after the trade and re-signed Jerome. I'd like to believe there's some shared vision between Altman and Atkinson here.

From what I can tell trading Ball and Wade for nothing and then signing G-Leaguers to <$2m combined in salary for February through April could save $~80m in tax in addition to whatever payroll they have left. Are (typically performing) Dean Wade and (in this case a poorly performing) Lonzo Ball worth more than $80m relative to our chances of winning a title? If Tyson/CPJ/Proctor look ready, do you take the $80+m bet that a lack of two mediocre backups meaningfully changes your title odds?

And after that if you trade Strus for a rotation guy making $10m or less (Jalen Smith? TJ McConnell? Matisse Thybulle?), you're under the 2nd apron. And you still have Garland/Mitchell/Hunter/Mobley/Allen with Merrill/Nance/CPJ/Tyson/Proctor/Bryant/<Strus trade return>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>, because under the 2nd apron your G-Leaguers can be upgraded to buyout guys. (Maybe trade Merrill for a minimum guy instead of Strus for a $10m guy?)

It doesn't really pay to cut those guys now, but it may make sense at the deadline if it doesn't seem to affect our title odds.

Under the second Apron? Buyout guys?

Go on, tie a bow around that ribbon.

It would open the door for LeBron part III.

If only, nothing more than a fantasy. Must be under both aprons.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-buyout-market-explained-how-the-rules-have-changed-with-the-new-cba-and-what-to-expect-in-coming-weeks/

"one significant change is already in effect. Starting [last] season, any team above the first luxury tax apron cannot sign a player who has been bought out during the season unless that player's former salary was below the non-taxpayer mid-level exception."

[jbk1234]

I’m not saying we should, I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised. Kenny isn’t JBB and if Ball and Wade end up being defensive specialists, they might not keep their playing time. And if they don’t, it’s hard to justify the $50m+ that keeping them adds to the tax. (I have no idea what the actual tax savings would be.)

If Kenny doesn't plan on shoring up the defensive side of the ball in his rotations, he should re-watch the Pacers series. For that matter, if we're not trying to get longer and more athletic off the bench, we should've just cut Ball (who wasn't fully guaranteed) immediately after the trade and re-signed Jerome. I'd like to believe there's some shared vision between Altman and Atkinson here.

From what I can tell trading Ball and Wade for nothing and then signing G-Leaguers to <$2m combined in salary for February through April could save $~80m in tax in addition to whatever payroll they have left. Are (typically performing) Dean Wade and (in this case a poorly performing) Lonzo Ball worth more than $80m relative to our chances of winning a title? If Tyson/CPJ/Proctor look ready, do you take the $80+m bet that a lack of two mediocre backups meaningfully changes your title odds?

And after that if you trade Strus for a rotation guy making $10m or less (Jalen Smith? TJ McConnell? Matisse Thybulle?), you're under the 2nd apron. And you still have Garland/Mitchell/Hunter/Mobley/Allen with Merrill/Nance/CPJ/Tyson/Proctor/Bryant/<Strus trade return>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>, because under the 2nd apron your G-Leaguers can be upgraded to buyout guys. (Maybe trade Merrill for a minimum guy instead of Strus for a $10m guy?)

It doesn't really pay to cut those guys now, but it may make sense at the deadline if it doesn't seem to affect our title odds.

Tbc, I don't think the Bulls are going to trade you Jalen Smith for Strus. Smith is valuable on his contract (as is Wade). But more to the point, if cost cutting was that important, we could've just not re-signed Merrill. We could've cut Ball immediately after the trade. Are we trying to win a championship this season or we worried about a one-off tax bill before we're even in the repeater tax?

I don't think we should be trading players who are higher on the depth chart and banking on guys who could get played off the floor in the playoffs. Now, if Tyson or Proctor take the job from Strus, okay. I just don't see CPJ or Nance taking the jobs from Ball or Wade, and if Ball is so bad that happens, I don't see anyone agreeing to absorb his salary.

[toooskies]

If Kenny doesn't plan on shoring up the defensive side of the ball in his rotations, he should re-watch the Pacers series. For that matter, if we're not trying to get longer and more athletic off the bench, we should've just cut Ball (who wasn't fully guaranteed) immediately after the trade and re-signed Jerome. I'd like to believe there's some shared vision between Altman and Atkinson here.

From what I can tell trading Ball and Wade for nothing and then signing G-Leaguers to <$2m combined in salary for February through April could save $~80m in tax in addition to whatever payroll they have left. Are (typically performing) Dean Wade and (in this case a poorly performing) Lonzo Ball worth more than $80m relative to our chances of winning a title? If Tyson/CPJ/Proctor look ready, do you take the $80+m bet that a lack of two mediocre backups meaningfully changes your title odds?

And after that if you trade Strus for a rotation guy making $10m or less (Jalen Smith? TJ McConnell? Matisse Thybulle?), you're under the 2nd apron. And you still have Garland/Mitchell/Hunter/Mobley/Allen with Merrill/Nance/CPJ/Tyson/Proctor/Bryant/<Strus trade return>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>, because under the 2nd apron your G-Leaguers can be upgraded to buyout guys. (Maybe trade Merrill for a minimum guy instead of Strus for a $10m guy?)

It doesn't really pay to cut those guys now, but it may make sense at the deadline if it doesn't seem to affect our title odds.

Tbc, I don't think the Bulls are going to trade you Jalen Smith for Strus. Smith is valuable on his contract (as is Wade). But more to the point, if cost cutting was that important, we could've just not re-signed Merrill. We could've cut Ball immediately after the trade. Are we trying to win a championship this season or we worried about a one-off tax bill before we're even in the repeater tax?

I don't think we should be trading players who are higher on the depth chart and banking on guys who could get played off the floor in the playoffs. Now, if Tyson or Proctor take the job from Strus, okay. I just don't see CPJ or Nance taking the jobs from Ball or Wade, and if Ball is so bad that happens, I don't see anyone agreeing to absorb his salary.

We re-signed Merrill because a) we didn't want to look like we were cutting salary too much, b) we didn't know if the kids would be ready (and still don't-- it's a question for February), c) he's a more affordable long-term movement shooter than Strus, d) he looked like he could compete both ways against Indiana while Jerome looked like a 0-way player in the playoffs.

Lonzo has never been to the playoffs and Wade has been a massive negative offensively in the playoffs, so offloading them wouldn't be getting rid of battle-tested playoff veterans. Larry Nance's playoff FG% literally doubles Wade's. Expirings are easier to offload than longer deals and they're easiest to offload at the trade deadline when the majority of their salary has been paid already.

The repeater tax is a small factor a giant escalator compared to just how punitive it is to be massively over the tax. Repeater adds some pain but the Cavs are already paying 7 times Ball's salary (or Wade's, or Merrill's, depending on who the last luxury signing is) to have him on the roster. The repeater tax is just an additional 2x on top.

Table of what we (and the rest of the league) are paying per tax bracket: https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

[JonFromVA]

From what I can tell trading Ball and Wade for nothing and then signing G-Leaguers to <$2m combined in salary for February through April could save $~80m in tax in addition to whatever payroll they have left. Are (typically performing) Dean Wade and (in this case a poorly performing) Lonzo Ball worth more than $80m relative to our chances of winning a title? If Tyson/CPJ/Proctor look ready, do you take the $80+m bet that a lack of two mediocre backups meaningfully changes your title odds?

And after that if you trade Strus for a rotation guy making $10m or less (Jalen Smith? TJ McConnell? Matisse Thybulle?), you're under the 2nd apron. And you still have Garland/Mitchell/Hunter/Mobley/Allen with Merrill/Nance/CPJ/Tyson/Proctor/Bryant/<Strus trade return>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>, because under the 2nd apron your G-Leaguers can be upgraded to buyout guys. (Maybe trade Merrill for a minimum guy instead of Strus for a $10m guy?)

It doesn't really pay to cut those guys now, but it may make sense at the deadline if it doesn't seem to affect our title odds.

Tbc, I don't think the Bulls are going to trade you Jalen Smith for Strus. Smith is valuable on his contract (as is Wade). But more to the point, if cost cutting was that important, we could've just not re-signed Merrill. We could've cut Ball immediately after the trade. Are we trying to win a championship this season or we worried about a one-off tax bill before we're even in the repeater tax?

I don't think we should be trading players who are higher on the depth chart and banking on guys who could get played off the floor in the playoffs. Now, if Tyson or Proctor take the job from Strus, okay. I just don't see CPJ or Nance taking the jobs from Ball or Wade, and if Ball is so bad that happens, I don't see anyone agreeing to absorb his salary.

We re-signed Merrill because a) we didn't want to look like we were cutting salary too much, b) we didn't know if the kids would be ready (and still don't-- it's a question for February), c) he's a more affordable long-term movement shooter than Strus, d) he looked like he could compete both ways against Indiana while Jerome looked like a 0-way player in the playoffs.

Lonzo has never been to the playoffs and Wade has been a massive negative offensively in the playoffs, so offloading them wouldn't be getting rid of battle-tested playoff veterans. Larry Nance's playoff FG% literally doubles Wade's. Expirings are easier to offload than longer deals and they're easiest to offload at the trade deadline when the majority of their salary has been paid already.

The repeater tax is a small factor a giant escalator compared to just how punitive it is to be massively over the tax. Repeater adds some pain but the Cavs are already paying 7 times Ball's salary (or Wade's, or Merrill's, depending on who the last luxury signing is) to have him on the roster. The repeater tax is just an additional 2x on top.

Table of what we (and the rest of the league) are paying per tax bracket: https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

Unfortunately one of our problems in the playoffs has been having enough depth when we suffer a string of injuries, so, even if have young players ready to step up and step in come February we have to consider the reliability of the players we'd bring in to replace the players we cost cut.

If Altman can walk that fine line and bring in a viable buyout player, the choice becomes easier; but we have not done a good job of that in the past.

[jbk1234]

From what I can tell trading Ball and Wade for nothing and then signing G-Leaguers to <$2m combined in salary for February through April could save $~80m in tax in addition to whatever payroll they have left. Are (typically performing) Dean Wade and (in this case a poorly performing) Lonzo Ball worth more than $80m relative to our chances of winning a title? If Tyson/CPJ/Proctor look ready, do you take the $80+m bet that a lack of two mediocre backups meaningfully changes your title odds?

And after that if you trade Strus for a rotation guy making $10m or less (Jalen Smith? TJ McConnell? Matisse Thybulle?), you're under the 2nd apron. And you still have Garland/Mitchell/Hunter/Mobley/Allen with Merrill/Nance/CPJ/Tyson/Proctor/Bryant/<Strus trade return>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>/<ring chaser>, because under the 2nd apron your G-Leaguers can be upgraded to buyout guys. (Maybe trade Merrill for a minimum guy instead of Strus for a $10m guy?)

It doesn't really pay to cut those guys now, but it may make sense at the deadline if it doesn't seem to affect our title odds.

Tbc, I don't think the Bulls are going to trade you Jalen Smith for Strus. Smith is valuable on his contract (as is Wade). But more to the point, if cost cutting was that important, we could've just not re-signed Merrill. We could've cut Ball immediately after the trade. Are we trying to win a championship this season or we worried about a one-off tax bill before we're even in the repeater tax?

I don't think we should be trading players who are higher on the depth chart and banking on guys who could get played off the floor in the playoffs. Now, if Tyson or Proctor take the job from Strus, okay. I just don't see CPJ or Nance taking the jobs from Ball or Wade, and if Ball is so bad that happens, I don't see anyone agreeing to absorb his salary.

We re-signed Merrill because a) we didn't want to look like we were cutting salary too much, b) we didn't know if the kids would be ready (and still don't-- it's a question for February), c) he's a more affordable long-term movement shooter than Strus, d) he looked like he could compete both ways against Indiana while Jerome looked like a 0-way player in the playoffs.

Lonzo has never been to the playoffs and Wade has been a massive negative offensively in the playoffs, so offloading them wouldn't be getting rid of battle-tested playoff veterans. Larry Nance's playoff FG% literally doubles Wade's. Expirings are easier to offload than longer deals and they're easiest to offload at the trade deadline when the majority of their salary has been paid already.

The repeater tax is a small factor a giant escalator compared to just how punitive it is to be massively over the tax. Repeater adds some pain but the Cavs are already paying 7 times Ball's salary (or Wade's, or Merrill's, depending on who the last luxury signing is) to have him on the roster. The repeater tax is just an additional 2x on top.

Table of what we (and the rest of the league) are paying per tax bracket: https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

I watched a Pacers team that faced very little resistance on the perimeter and was able to shoot over too many of our players when it was there. Merrill is fundamentally sound defensively, he anticipates well and positions himself accordingly, but way too many Cavs fans confuse that with *good.* He still has physical limitations that prevent him from frustrating the opponent.

I really don't care about Nance's career FG% if he's a turnstile on defense. That will get him played off the floor in the playoffs which is why Niang isn't on the roster. The Cavs need to be thinking about what happens when their next playoff opponent starts spamming threes because we're starting Garland and Mitchell, and assuming the plan was to keep Merrill for at least one season rather than sign him to dump him later, he'll be in the rotation.

[JonFromVA]

Tbc, I don't think the Bulls are going to trade you Jalen Smith for Strus. Smith is valuable on his contract (as is Wade). But more to the point, if cost cutting was that important, we could've just not re-signed Merrill. We could've cut Ball immediately after the trade. Are we trying to win a championship this season or we worried about a one-off tax bill before we're even in the repeater tax?

I don't think we should be trading players who are higher on the depth chart and banking on guys who could get played off the floor in the playoffs. Now, if Tyson or Proctor take the job from Strus, okay. I just don't see CPJ or Nance taking the jobs from Ball or Wade, and if Ball is so bad that happens, I don't see anyone agreeing to absorb his salary.

We re-signed Merrill because a) we didn't want to look like we were cutting salary too much, b) we didn't know if the kids would be ready (and still don't-- it's a question for February), c) he's a more affordable long-term movement shooter than Strus, d) he looked like he could compete both ways against Indiana while Jerome looked like a 0-way player in the playoffs.

Lonzo has never been to the playoffs and Wade has been a massive negative offensively in the playoffs, so offloading them wouldn't be getting rid of battle-tested playoff veterans. Larry Nance's playoff FG% literally doubles Wade's. Expirings are easier to offload than longer deals and they're easiest to offload at the trade deadline when the majority of their salary has been paid already.

The repeater tax is a small factor a giant escalator compared to just how punitive it is to be massively over the tax. Repeater adds some pain but the Cavs are already paying 7 times Ball's salary (or Wade's, or Merrill's, depending on who the last luxury signing is) to have him on the roster. The repeater tax is just an additional 2x on top.

Table of what we (and the rest of the league) are paying per tax bracket: https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

I watched a Pacers team that faced very little resistance on the perimeter and was able to shoot over too many of our players when it was there. Merrill is fundamentally sound defensively, he anticipates well and positions himself accordingly, but way too many Cavs fans confuse that with *good.* He still has physical limitations that prevent him from frustrating the opponent.

I really don't care about Nance's career FG% if he's a turnstile on defense. That will get him played off the floor in the playoffs which is why Niang isn't on the roster. The Cavs need to be thinking about what happens when their next playoff opponent starts spamming threes because we're starting Garland and Mitchell, and assuming the plan was to keep Merrill for at least one season rather than sign him to dump him later, he'll be in the rotation.

There are going to be teams who shoot lights out against us, our answer all season long was to bury them with our offense. I know you don't like conceding anything, but the fact our offense was crippled by injuries robbed us of that response.

And even though the Pacers shot their highest 3pt% in the Cavs series, their actual offensive rating was their lowest against the 3 teams they faced in the East.

So, yes, I'm all for disrupting the other team and throwing them off their game through things like physical play and aggressive contesting (not juse a hand in their face); but it's not like the Knick's length availed them any better. If our offense was running at anywhere close to the 121.7 ortg of the regular season ... the Cavs beat the Pacers.

For reference, the Heat (who we crushed in the first round before the injuries) was better defensively in the regular season than the Pacers, and while they did lose Butler during the season, their defense started playing better without him.

Maybe we can reinvent the team or simply improve it through physical maturation, weight training and attitude; but the league's desire to allow more physical play to occur in the playoffs to appease the media and whiny former players has done us no favors.

[JujitsuFlip]

Tbc, I don't think the Bulls are going to trade you Jalen Smith for Strus. Smith is valuable on his contract (as is Wade). But more to the point, if cost cutting was that important, we could've just not re-signed Merrill. We could've cut Ball immediately after the trade. Are we trying to win a championship this season or we worried about a one-off tax bill before we're even in the repeater tax?

I don't think we should be trading players who are higher on the depth chart and banking on guys who could get played off the floor in the playoffs. Now, if Tyson or Proctor take the job from Strus, okay. I just don't see CPJ or Nance taking the jobs from Ball or Wade, and if Ball is so bad that happens, I don't see anyone agreeing to absorb his salary.

We re-signed Merrill because a) we didn't want to look like we were cutting salary too much, b) we didn't know if the kids would be ready (and still don't-- it's a question for February), c) he's a more affordable long-term movement shooter than Strus, d) he looked like he could compete both ways against Indiana while Jerome looked like a 0-way player in the playoffs.

Lonzo has never been to the playoffs and Wade has been a massive negative offensively in the playoffs, so offloading them wouldn't be getting rid of battle-tested playoff veterans. Larry Nance's playoff FG% literally doubles Wade's. Expirings are easier to offload than longer deals and they're easiest to offload at the trade deadline when the majority of their salary has been paid already.

The repeater tax is a small factor a giant escalator compared to just how punitive it is to be massively over the tax. Repeater adds some pain but the Cavs are already paying 7 times Ball's salary (or Wade's, or Merrill's, depending on who the last luxury signing is) to have him on the roster. The repeater tax is just an additional 2x on top.

Table of what we (and the rest of the league) are paying per tax bracket: https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

I watched a Pacers team that faced very little resistance on the perimeter and was able to shoot over too many of our players when it was there. Merrill is fundamentally sound defensively, he anticipates well and positions himself accordingly, but way too many Cavs fans confuse that with *good.* He still has physical limitations that prevent him from frustrating the opponent.

I really don't care about Nance's career FG% if he's a turnstile on defense. That will get him played off the floor in the playoffs which is why Niang isn't on the roster. The Cavs need to be thinking about what happens when their next playoff opponent starts spamming threes because we're starting Garland and Mitchell, and assuming the plan was to keep Merrill for at least one season rather than sign him to dump him later, he'll be in the rotation.

The one thing i know is regardless what the Cavs next short coming in the post season is, they won't be ready for it and will be completely caught off guard lol

2022 - we needed more talent
2023 - we needed more shooting and more physicality
2024 - we needed a better coach and yet again more physicality
2025 - we needed better conditioning and more physicality part 3.