Raps V. Kings - Preseason - Wed, Oct 8th, 2025 - 10PM EST

[ATLTimekeeper]

This really is not true at all.

IQ is a great spot up shooter and does a lot of damage off the catch.

RJ's most productive run of his career was late 2024 when he was relegated to playing off people, and creating nothing for himself.

Yak is 100% a guy who doesn't need the ball

That leaves Ingram and Barnes, and lets be honest, Barnes is not a good on-ball or off-ball player. He needs to learn to be a good off-ball guy though, as it is clear he is not a good enough scorer or decision maker to have the ball in his hands often.

Exactly. This talking point people have of our guys all needing the ball in their hands to be successful just isn’t true. Most of our guys are better off ball and when they’re forced to initiate that’s when they aren’t as good. BI is the only player in that starting lineup who is good with the ball in their hands initiating, everyone else is better off ball and when an advantage is already created for them. They’re better as secondary or tertiary ball handlers. Also if BI and RJ keep shooting the 3 like this all season and IQ shoots like we know he can, the spacing will be just fine.

Es from Raps Republic made the comment about the 4 guys in the SL needing the ball. I appreciate you guys "debunking" that take.

I think a lot of people see USG rate as if that player is Carmelo Anthony. USG rate is kinda a lazy prognosticating stat. It doesn't tell you how those possessions come about. I think average seconds/touch or average dribbles/touch give a better picture of that, because it's kinda what's in the way of ballmovement.

Another good one is just look at the frequency of possessions that take 7+ dribbles. IQ led the team last year with 18.7%. The high usage, high volume creators are like 35% and above.

And then look at touch time >6 seconds. 13% of RJ's possessions were greater than 6 seconds. There's very few 20ppg guys that are that low.

One ball becomes an issue when guys are stopping it, or when guys are taking bad shots to get their numbers. The latter can happen here, but if that happens the team's problem is buy in and chemistry. It's not ability.

[YogurtProducer]

As I suspected, Ingram healthy is a problem he needs to be the hub/focal point

If this team starts winning & he stays healthy, I could easily see him as an allstar candidate this season.

if ingram is healthy he is a lock to make the game, IMO.

[Godaddycurse]

As I suspected, Ingram healthy is a problem he needs to be the hub/focal point

If this team starts winning & he stays healthy, I could easily see him as an allstar candidate this season.

if ingram is healthy he is a lock to make the game, IMO.

unless poeltl is injured and raptors crash and burn.. i think we are screwed if poeltl is gone for extended stretch

[And1+2]

BI is such a joy to watch. We finally have a dynamic scorer, I think I'm in tears.

Ingram slipped on your tears and is now injured.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I'm only going to be convinced when I see BI, RJ and Scottie all playing well together. For multiple games. We still haven't seen that, as such the verdict is still out imo.

[LoveMyRaps]

RJ was a team best +18 last night.

His 3pt shot looks great! (Catch & shoot specifically)

[NinjaBro]

RJ looked great!

[mtcan]

Watch on YouTube

Respect to Jeff Teague...

[PushDaRock]

This really is not true at all.

IQ is a great spot up shooter and does a lot of damage off the catch.

RJ's most productive run of his career was late 2024 when he was relegated to playing off people, and creating nothing for himself.

Yak is 100% a guy who doesn't need the ball

That leaves Ingram and Barnes, and lets be honest, Barnes is not a good on-ball or off-ball player. He needs to learn to be a good off-ball guy though, as it is clear he is not a good enough scorer or decision maker to have the ball in his hands often.

Scottie shot 38% on C&S 3s in 2024, but in 2025 he shot 27%, and in 2023 he shot 30%. He is more than capable of being a good outlet, but he could also be an awful one.

I think ideally IQ's role on offense is closer to Derrick White's on Boston, whereas his role here has been more like Derrick White in San Antonio.

He is not capable. He got hot from 3 for 30 games. Post Jan. 1 2024 he was back to shooting 30% on C&S 3’s. The last time Barnes shot over 30% from 3 on a full months worth of games was in 2023.

Here is Barnes 3pt shooting by month since Jan 2024:

27%
23%
40% (1 game)
18%
28%
28%
27%
27%
25%
35% (5 games)

In almost 2 years he’s had 1 month shooting above league average from 3 and that was a 1 game sample size.

Barnes is one of the least capable outlets in the entire league.

Honestly, what do you even do with him? We need him doing things offensively that he's been either reluctant to do or hasn't been capable of doing.

[Boogie!]

As I suspected, Ingram healthy is a problem he needs to be the hub/focal point

If this team starts winning & he stays healthy, I could easily see him as an allstar candidate this season.

this is my only concern. he has never been healthy for his career. when is the inevitable injury gonna occur? or is there some way the medical staff can load manage him enough to get him to play at least 70 games.

[Boogie!]

Scottie shot 38% on C&S 3s in 2024, but in 2025 he shot 27%, and in 2023 he shot 30%. He is more than capable of being a good outlet, but he could also be an awful one.

I think ideally IQ's role on offense is closer to Derrick White's on Boston, whereas his role here has been more like Derrick White in San Antonio.

He is not capable. He got hot from 3 for 30 games. Post Jan. 1 2024 he was back to shooting 30% on C&S 3’s. The last time Barnes shot over 30% from 3 on a full months worth of games was in 2023.

Here is Barnes 3pt shooting by month since Jan 2024:

27%
23%
40% (1 game)
18%
28%
28%
27%
27%
25%
35% (5 games)

In almost 2 years he’s had 1 month shooting above league average from 3 and that was a 1 game sample size.

Barnes is one of the least capable outlets in the entire league.

Honestly, what do you even do with him? We need him doing things offensively that he's been either reluctant to do or hasn't been capable of doing.

you trade him... it's just so funny how people are so confused now when this is the **** that i've been saying years ago when people were still delusionally arguing he was a better offensive option than siakam. it's never been reluctance it's simply skillset limitations. not explosive/athletic enough, not coordinated enough, footwork not good enough, cant shoot, handle average...

[ConSarnit]

Scottie shot 38% on C&S 3s in 2024, but in 2025 he shot 27%, and in 2023 he shot 30%. He is more than capable of being a good outlet, but he could also be an awful one.

I think ideally IQ's role on offense is closer to Derrick White's on Boston, whereas his role here has been more like Derrick White in San Antonio.

He is not capable. He got hot from 3 for 30 games. Post Jan. 1 2024 he was back to shooting 30% on C&S 3’s. The last time Barnes shot over 30% from 3 on a full months worth of games was in 2023.

Here is Barnes 3pt shooting by month since Jan 2024:

27%
23%
40% (1 game)
18%
28%
28%
27%
27%
25%
35% (5 games)

In almost 2 years he’s had 1 month shooting above league average from 3 and that was a 1 game sample size.

Barnes is one of the least capable outlets in the entire league.

Honestly, what do you even do with him? We need him doing things offensively that he's been either reluctant to do or hasn't been capable of doing.

I don’t really know. I argued in a previous thread that in order for Barnes to become useful in the short term (next 1-2 seasons) he’d have to be able to somewhat shoot because he’s never shown the inclination or ability to do the other stuff (screening, post-up, etc). I’m worried that’s starting to play out. I do think he can learn the other stuff but it’s going to take time. I don’t want to rush to conclusions but the in first pre-season game it was him just wanting to play like a perimeter player like he always does.

If Barnes can’t shoot and won’t do the other stuff we have to replace Poeltl with a stretch 5. That’s not Poeltl’s fault but it’s always going to limit our offense having him and Barnes providing zero spacing. Or we eventually look to move Barnes but the longer his inability to shoot persists the lower his value drops. No one wants to pay a non-spacing, poor scoring PF 25% of the cap.

I’m not trying to overreact but if that DEN game was any indication of what’s to come this year I think we could very well find ourselves stuck with Barnes and his contract. Honestly I sort of question Barnes work ethic. What “gym rat” skill has he improved? Definitely not his 3pt shooting or overall shooting much. Or his ball-handling. Or his post game. Or his iso game. His major improvements have come from in-game experience/reps and getting used to the NBA (defense and passing). Almost all his self creation and shooting stats suck. What has he been working on these past 4 years?

[Spates]

He is not capable. He got hot from 3 for 30 games. Post Jan. 1 2024 he was back to shooting 30% on C&S 3’s. The last time Barnes shot over 30% from 3 on a full months worth of games was in 2023.

Here is Barnes 3pt shooting by month since Jan 2024:

27%
23%
40% (1 game)
18%
28%
28%
27%
27%
25%
35% (5 games)

In almost 2 years he’s had 1 month shooting above league average from 3 and that was a 1 game sample size.

Barnes is one of the least capable outlets in the entire league.

Honestly, what do you even do with him? We need him doing things offensively that he's been either reluctant to do or hasn't been capable of doing.

you trade him... it's just so funny how people are so confused now when this is the **** that i've been saying years ago when people were still delusionally arguing he was a better offensive option than siakam. it's never been reluctance it's simply skillset limitations. not explosive/athletic enough, not coordinated enough, footwork not good enough, cant shoot, handle average...

Raps overcorrected post-Casey in terms of divvying roles. Went from hyper-specific "role cards" to everyone can be a star/bet on yourself. Hopefully Barnes is the last vestige of that philosophy.

Barnes still has solid potential. The hope is that he'll make necessary adjustments to his game as a Raptor rather than on another team. Honestly, if the changes don't come this season, ship him. I don't imagine he has enormous value league wide but bottom feeders may want to snag a cheap and depreciated asset.

[MEDIC]

RJ was a team best +18 last night.

His 3pt shot looks great! (Catch & shoot specifically)

Not surprised. He looks super confident out there. You can tell he worked hard this summer. Even his defensive footwork looks better.

I think he is going to have a big year.

[Spates]

RJ was a team best +18 last night.

His 3pt shot looks great! (Catch & shoot specifically)

Not surprised. He looks super confident out there. You can tell he worked hard this summer. Even his defensive footwork looks better.

I think he is going to have a big year.

It's crazy the heat he's been receiving. I really think he can be one of our better value contracts.

[PushDaRock]

He is not capable. He got hot from 3 for 30 games. Post Jan. 1 2024 he was back to shooting 30% on C&S 3’s. The last time Barnes shot over 30% from 3 on a full months worth of games was in 2023.

Here is Barnes 3pt shooting by month since Jan 2024:

27%
23%
40% (1 game)
18%
28%
28%
27%
27%
25%
35% (5 games)

In almost 2 years he’s had 1 month shooting above league average from 3 and that was a 1 game sample size.

Barnes is one of the least capable outlets in the entire league.

Honestly, what do you even do with him? We need him doing things offensively that he's been either reluctant to do or hasn't been capable of doing.

I don’t really know. I argued in a previous thread that in order for Barnes to become useful in the short term (next 1-2 seasons) he’d have to be able to somewhat shoot because he’s never shown the inclination or ability to do the other stuff (screening, post-up, etc). I’m worried that’s starting to play out. I do think he can learn the other stuff but it’s going to take time. I don’t want to rush to conclusions but the in first pre-season game it was him just wanting to play like a perimeter player like he always does.

If Barnes can’t shoot and won’t do the other stuff we have to replace Poeltl with a stretch 5. That’s not Poeltl’s fault but it’s always going to limit our offense having him and Barnes providing zero spacing. Or we eventually look to move Barnes but the longer his inability to shoot persists the lower his value drops. No one wants to pay a non-spacing, poor scoring PF 25% of the cap.

I’m not trying to overreact but if that DEN game was any indication of what’s to come this year I think we could very well find ourselves stuck with Barnes and his contract. Honestly I sort of question Barnes work ethic. What “gym rat” skill has he improved? Definitely not his 3pt shooting or overall shooting much. Or his ball-handling. Or his post game. Or his iso game. His major improvements have come from in-game experience/reps and getting used to the NBA (defense and passing). Almost all his self creation and shooting stats suck. What has he been working on these past 4 years?

He's just a frustrating player to build around because he shows flashes of many different skills that you think he maybe can build on but nothing ever sticks. Ultimately he's proving to be someone that can do a bit of everything but nothing at an elite level and hardly anything even above average offensively.

I'm not saying trade him right this moment but you do have to consider whether you want to be proactive on that front if you do move him because the contract could very easily move into neutral/negative value territory if he repeats the year he just had and especially if we aren't winning.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The problem with Barnes is the lack of growth in his game. He's basically the same guy we drafted.

[Boogie!]

Honestly, what do you even do with him? We need him doing things offensively that he's been either reluctant to do or hasn't been capable of doing.

you trade him... it's just so funny how people are so confused now when this is the **** that i've been saying years ago when people were still delusionally arguing he was a better offensive option than siakam. it's never been reluctance it's simply skillset limitations. not explosive/athletic enough, not coordinated enough, footwork not good enough, cant shoot, handle average...

Raps overcorrected post-Casey in terms of divvying roles. Went from hyper-specific "role cards" to everyone can be a star/bet on yourself. Hopefully Barnes is the last vestige of that philosophy.

Barnes still has solid potential. The hope is that he'll make necessary adjustments to his game as a Raptor rather than on another team. Honestly, if the changes don't come this season, ship him. I don't imagine he has enormous value league wide but bottom feeders may want to snag a cheap and depreciated asset.

5th year. Need to come to terms with reality and stop talking bout potential. We got rid of al the guys that were supposedly standing in his way just to give him the keys to the team only to realize h didn’t have it. He’s been given the leeway and geeen light to do whatever the ruck he wants. What else do people neee to see to accept he is who he is. Just like you I really wanted Barnes to be good I was in favour of making him the pg, I thought fvv was jealous of his success and was trying to big time him a bit. But after years of watching him it’s obvious he’s not who we all expected him to be. And it’s time to stop kidding ourselves. You don’t find ways to make max players fit a team. Max players are the ones that carry the team. That’s not scottie Barnes.

[MoneyBall]

The problem with Barnes is the lack of growth in his game. He's basically the same guy we drafted.

Do people really believe these hot takes? Barnes made the AS game in his third season. He's also the best player on what many people believe is a playoff team.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The problem with Barnes is the lack of growth in his game. He's basically the same guy we drafted.

Do people really believe these hot takes? Barnes made the AS game in his third season. He's also the best player on what many people believe is a playoff team.

He was a substitution a few years back, but like his shot...it just never stuck.