GT: Bulls @ Cavaliers - 6 CT

[sco]

So, so very late to the party. Did not watch it until today. Real quick:

1. Both Tre and Ayo looked great. I really don't know what we will do with the guard situation. Given Tre's bargain deal, I think we need to try to trade Ayo for draft assets, much as I'd hate to do it. If we're keeping Coby, we just don't have room for both Tre and Ayo.

Why not. This is not the 90s. Ayo can play bigger then his size and plays well with most of the other players. He is a two way player on a team the desperately need two players. He is a team leader. He is part of the positive culture.

Tre is Alonzo replacement. Coby took Zach's role. Who exactly is Ayo blocking Heuter? I would take Ayo everytime.

If you were talking about a bunch of 6'0 footers I would agree with you.

let's say that Coby/Okoro/Josh take 90 of the 144 minutes at 1-3. I see Jones getting around 22 of the remaining 54. So rough-justice that leaves about 32 minutes at the 2-3 that are up for grabs between Huerter, Ayo and Pat (who will get likely minutes also at the 4). I think we're committing to a 10 man rotation. I think Huerter and Ayo will likely split the 32 minutes, unless Pat makes a strong case. That said, I could see one of those guys earn up to 22 mpg if he outplays the others.

[kodo]

So, so very late to the party. Did not watch it until today. Real quick:

1. Both Tre and Ayo looked great. I really don't know what we will do with the guard situation. Given Tre's bargain deal, I think we need to try to trade Ayo for draft assets, much as I'd hate to do it. If we're keeping Coby, we just don't have room for both Tre and Ayo.

Why not. This is not the 90s. Ayo can play bigger then his size and plays well with most of the other players. He is a two way player on a team the desperately need two players. He is a team leader. He is part of the positive culture.

Tre is Alonzo replacement. Coby took Zach's role. Who exactly is Ayo blocking Heuter? I would take Ayo everytime.

If you were talking about a bunch of 6'0 footers I would agree with you.

Well I don't want to argue against Ayo, but the main reason would be that Ayo is not a 3P shooting threat, regardless of his % because that's not his game. He's mainly dangerous driving to the hoop on a live dribble with some good cuts thrown in. Huerter lives on the perimeter as the C&S threat. After the trade deadline, he led this team in 3P, actually outproduced White. This is a team whose identity is mainly offense, and mainly 3P shots. Huerter was our best 3P shooter after the break.

Now if Huerter's shooting crashes back down again, there's no point in playing a shooter that can't shoot. But he was 36% last season, 40% the season before, 39% in ATL so his run w/ the Bulls is more normal for him than not.

But I'm a huge Ayo fan, I'd be happy to see him stay with the team in some way. But the need for 3P shooting on a team whose identity is 3P shooting can't be denied, and Ayo barely shoots any 3s. Averaged 1.3 last season.

[Chi town]

So, so very late to the party. Did not watch it until today. Real quick:

1. Both Tre and Ayo looked great. I really don't know what we will do with the guard situation. Given Tre's bargain deal, I think we need to try to trade Ayo for draft assets, much as I'd hate to do it. If we're keeping Coby, we just don't have room for both Tre and Ayo.

Why not. This is not the 90s. Ayo can play bigger then his size and plays well with most of the other players. He is a two way player on a team the desperately need two players. He is a team leader. He is part of the positive culture.

Tre is Alonzo replacement. Coby took Zach's role. Who exactly is Ayo blocking Heuter? I would take Ayo everytime.

If you were talking about a bunch of 6'0 footers I would agree with you.

Well I don't want to argue against Ayo, but the main reason would be that Ayo is not a 3P shooting threat, regardless of his % because that's not his game. He's mainly dangerous driving to the hoop on a live dribble with some good cuts thrown in. Huerter lives on the perimeter as the C&S threat. After the trade deadline, he led this team in 3P, actually outproduced White. This is a team whose identity is mainly offense, and mainly 3P shots. Huerter was our best 3P shooter after the break.

Now if Huerter's shooting crashes back down again, there's no point in playing a shooter that can't shoot. But he was 36% last season, 40% the season before, 39% in ATL so his run w/ the Bulls is more normal for him than not.

But I'm a huge Ayo fan, I'd be happy to see him stay with the team in some way. But the need for 3P shooting on a team whose identity is 3P shooting can't be denied, and Ayo barely shoots any 3s. Averaged 1.3 last season.

Ayo played with an injured shoulder all of last year.

His 3 ball sure looked quick and decisive in game one. He can’t shoot off the dribble or movement like Huerter so he will always be a low volume 3pt shooter.

I think Ayo stays and Huerter will be traded at the deadline to a playoff team.

[Bulliever2020]

Ayo is Jrue Holiday 2.0.

A do the dirty work guy that every team needs. We need to keep him long term. He is about to have a huge bounce back year.

[GuardianEnzo]

I like Ayo but in no way is he the player prime Jrue Holiday was. Not really that close.

[Bulliever2020]

I like Ayo but in no way is he the player prime Jrue Holiday was. Not really that close.

We'll see. Ayo is not close to entering his prime yet.

[jnrjr79]

I like Ayo but in no way is he the player prime Jrue Holiday was. Not really that close.

We'll see. Ayo is not close to entering his prime yet.

He’s 25.

[Bulliever2020]

I like Ayo but in no way is he the player prime Jrue Holiday was. Not really that close.

We'll see. Ayo is not close to entering his prime yet.

He’s 25.

Right. And I'd say prime is 27-28.

[PaKii94]

I like Ayo but in no way is he the player prime Jrue Holiday was. Not really that close.

We'll see. Ayo is not close to entering his prime yet.

He’s 25.

Same archetype but ya he has a ways to go to full jrue. 80% of jrue would still be a very solid player

[jnrjr79]

We'll see. Ayo is not close to entering his prime yet.

He’s 25.

Right. And I'd say prime is 27-28.

So…he’s close to entering his prime?

[Bulliever2020]

He’s 25.

Right. And I'd say prime is 27-28.

So…he’s close to entering his prime?

Semantics. He's still 2-3 seasons away.

[Bulliever2020]

I'll walk it back a bit and say poor man's Jrue. He is most likely never going to be the scorer Jrue was but he will bring all the intangibles that he did and be the glue guy that just wins you games. Bottom line, I think we will regret letting him walk. He is a guy who is a relentless worker who is going to continue to get better throughout his career.

[jnrjr79]

Right. And I'd say prime is 27-28.

So…he’s close to entering his prime?

Semantics. He's still 2-3 seasons away.

You said he was not “close to entering his prime,” not that he was not currently in his prime. 25 is obviously either a typical “prime” age or something close to it. I’m not saying he can’t improve, but he’s not some sort of raw prospect at this point.

[Bulliever2020]

So…he’s close to entering his prime?

Semantics. He's still 2-3 seasons away.

You said he was not “close to entering his prime,” not that he was not currently in his prime. 25 is obviously either a typical “prime” age or something close to it. I’m not saying he can’t improve, but he’s not some sort of raw prospect at this point.

Again, semantics. I would say close is next season, not 2-3 more seasons of development before he even begins his prime imo. This is a prime ridiculous argument right here. Continue to argue over the definition of close if you want, I'm good.

[jnrjr79]

Semantics. He's still 2-3 seasons away.

You said he was not “close to entering his prime,” not that he was not currently in his prime. 25 is obviously either a typical “prime” age or something close to it. I’m not saying he can’t improve, but he’s not some sort of raw prospect at this point.

Again, semantics. I would say close is next season, not 2-3 more seasons of development before he even begins his prime imo. This is a prime ridiculous argument right here. Continue to argue over the definition of close if you want, I'm good.

This seems like a real Inigo Montoya “you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means” moment.

You said “prime” begins at 27. Ayo turns 27 next season. Setting aside whether I even agree whether a player’s prime typically begins at 27 (I don’t), he’s close to his prime by your own definition.

2-3 more seasons before he begins his prime? If he plays 3 more seasons and then “begins” his prime, his prime will begin in the season he turns 30.

This is not “semantics.” Ayo’s pretty old!

[GuardianEnzo]

I'll walk it back a bit and say poor man's Jrue. He is most likely never going to be the scorer Jrue was but he will bring all the intangibles that he did and be the glue guy that just wins you games. Bottom line, I think we will regret letting him walk. He is a guy who is a relentless worker who is going to continue to get better throughout his career.

Nor anywhere near the playmaker. Holiday is a fully functional PG when needed, something Ayo will never be.

[Bulliever2020]

I'll walk it back a bit and say poor man's Jrue. He is most likely never going to be the scorer Jrue was but he will bring all the intangibles that he did and be the glue guy that just wins you games. Bottom line, I think we will regret letting him walk. He is a guy who is a relentless worker who is going to continue to get better throughout his career.

Nor anywhere near the playmaker. Holiday is a fully functional PG when needed, something Ayo will never be.

Let's not act like Jrue is some elite playmaker. He is solid, nothing more.

6.2 assist average for his career. Ayo averaged 4.5 last year and has never been given the keys to the offense.

[Indomitable]

I'll walk it back a bit and say poor man's Jrue. He is most likely never going to be the scorer Jrue was but he will bring all the intangibles that he did and be the glue guy that just wins you games. Bottom line, I think we will regret letting him walk. He is a guy who is a relentless worker who is going to continue to get better throughout his career.

Nor anywhere near the playmaker. Holiday is a fully functional PG when needed, something Ayo will never be.

Let's not act like Jrue is some elite playmaker. He is solid, nothing more.

6.2 assist average for his career. Ayo averaged 4.5 last year and has never been given the keys to the offense.

He is a better finisher then Holiday. I see a D White type. Hoilday best season was his third and he never was that again after the injury to his leg.