Flagg preseason debut: looking as good as advertised at 18 years old

[TheAlchemist]

I think Flagg will end up as a top-15 player all-time, but we’re probably going to see Jokic crack the top 10, Wemby reach the top 7, and Luka finish somewhere in the top 5 by the end of their careers. So even though Flagg looks like a future all-time great, there are likely going to be several current players who’ll rank ahead of him historically.

Lmao.

Luka has been injured so much and a consistent let down. Jokic is a double almost triple MVP, yet he only cracks top 10?

Wemby is way too early to tell but he has the freak body. Remember Anthony Davis was hailed as a freak too.

And then you got Flagg who hasn’t played one season yet.

Top 10 has the likes of Jordan , Shaq, Kareem , Magic, Bill Russell , Wilt etc.

The current retiring superstars of Durant, Curry and LeBron only has LeBron unanimously being top 10 of all time, with Curry breaking in if he wins more.

Do I see Luka being better than the LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, or Magic? Nope. And they’re not even unanimous top 5.

[bonita_the_frog]

That's what scientists do, change their opinion when they learn more.
Everybody's opinion will change on Flagg at some point.
But I've never called a rookie a "bust", so highly unlikely.

And to have a better rookie season than LeBron, you don't need identical stats, because you can play a lot better defense than rookie LeBron, and you can shoot a lot better than rookie LeBron (.417 field, .290 threes).

Worth remembering the difference in team environment, pace and defensive context. Directly comparing raw FG% would be both ignorant and stupid, naturally.

Flagg has potential. He might have a rookie campaign better than Lebron's. It's very unlikely, but it is also is not impossible given his talent. That's not really the issue here. Your allergy to context and the notion of sample size is of considerably more concern.

A " ludicrous prediction"?

I haven't made any prediction... other than Flagg's rookie season being better than LeBron's, which is obviously not ludicrous,

No, it's actually super ludicrous.

You are now scrambling to make up some BS to help justify your weird and absurd remark.

Scrambling? By reposting my previous posts? Should I have just ignored the abuse and shut-up?
I was slandered by people who can't read or choose not to, so I had to remind you exactly what I said.

The only prediction I made was Flagg's rookie season, which is obviously not ludicrous at all.
The only area LeBron's rookie season stands out historically, is his passing (even though he only averaged 5.9 assists per game).

You can give extra credit for him being a high schooler, but on face value there have been A LOT of rookies better than rookie LeBron.
And Flagg is clearly a VERY gifted passer, and that's the only area rookie LeBron is likely to be better.

[UglyBugBall]

I think Flagg will end up as a top-15 player all-time, but we’re probably going to see Jokic crack the top 10, Wemby reach the top 7, and Luka finish somewhere in the top 5 by the end of their careers. So even though Flagg looks like a future all-time great, there are likely going to be several current players who’ll rank ahead of him historically.

Lmao.

Luka has been injured so much and a consistent let down. Jokic is a double almost triple MVP, yet he only cracks top 10?

Wemby is way too early to tell but he has the freak body. Remember Anthony Davis was hailed as a freak too.

And then you got Flagg who hasn’t played one season yet.

Top 10 has the likes of Jordan , Shaq, Kareem , Magic, Bill Russell , Wilt etc.

The current retiring superstars of Durant, Curry and LeBron only has LeBron unanimously being top 10 of all time, with Curry breaking in if he wins more.

Do I see Luka being better than the LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, or Magic? Nope. And they’re not even unanimous top 5.

Luka is the best playoff performer since Jordan. Clearly better than even guys like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, etc in the playoffs so far, and younger too. Jokic is a good regular season player, but titles and FMVP's matter more for all-time rankings. Jokic only winning one, and not having the playoff level game to really give me confidence in more caps him at 10. We'll see. Wemby looks like a better potential Duncan on both sides of the ball. It'll come down to health.

[Optms]

I think Flagg will end up as a top-15 player all-time, but we’re probably going to see Jokic crack the top 10, Wemby reach the top 7, and Luka finish somewhere in the top 5 by the end of their careers. So even though Flagg looks like a future all-time great, there are likely going to be several current players who’ll rank ahead of him historically.

Lmao.

Luka has been injured so much and a consistent let down. Jokic is a double almost triple MVP, yet he only cracks top 10?

Wemby is way too early to tell but he has the freak body. Remember Anthony Davis was hailed as a freak too.

And then you got Flagg who hasn’t played one season yet.

Top 10 has the likes of Jordan , Shaq, Kareem , Magic, Bill Russell , Wilt etc.

The current retiring superstars of Durant, Curry and LeBron only has LeBron unanimously being top 10 of all time, with Curry breaking in if he wins more.

Do I see Luka being better than the LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, or Magic? Nope. And they’re not even unanimous top 5.

Curry is already top 10 if his career ended today. He has numerous records, 4 championships to his name, leading one of the greatest teams ever.

If he's not in your top 10 with his impact and resume already, you likely don't care how much he wins.

[michaelm]

That's what scientists do, change their opinion when they learn more.
Everybody's opinion will change on Flagg at some point.
But I've never called a rookie a "bust", so highly unlikely.

And to have a better rookie season than LeBron, you don't need identical stats, because you can play a lot better defense than rookie LeBron, and you can shoot a lot better than rookie LeBron (.417 field, .290 threes).

Worth remembering the difference in team environment, pace and defensive context. Directly comparing raw FG% would be both ignorant and stupid, naturally.

Flagg has potential. He might have a rookie campaign better than Lebron's. It's very unlikely, but it is also is not impossible given his talent. That's not really the issue here. Your allergy to context and the notion of sample size is of considerably more concern.

A " ludicrous prediction"?

I haven't made any prediction... other than Flagg's rookie season being better than LeBron's, which is obviously not ludicrous,

No, it's actually super ludicrous.

You are now scrambling to make up some BS to help justify your weird and absurd remark.

Scrambling? By reposting my previous posts? Should I have just ignored the abuse and shut-up?
I was slandered by people who can't read or choose not to, so I had to remind you exactly what I said.

The only prediction I made was Flagg's rookie season, which is obviously not ludicrous at all.
The only area LeBron's rookie season stands out historically, is his passing (even though he only averaged 5.9 assists per game).

You can give extra credit for him being a high schooler, but on face value there have been A LOT of rookies better than rookie LeBron.
And Flagg is clearly a VERY gifted passer, and that's the only area rookie LeBron is likely to be better.

Sure, it is obviously possible for him to have a better rookie season than LeBron, and to be a top 15 player all time, given some player some day is going to be better than the existing top 15 players unless the sport totally stagnates, with him a greater chance of being so than most if he proves to be one of the top rookies in recent decades.

I agree with another poster as I previously posted however that he really can’t be LeBron because while he can possibly match him for skills, court vision, BBIQ etc he can’t match LeBron ‘s innate physiology, and is particularly unlikely imo to match LeBron’s durability at or close to his peak, in which aspect LeBron probably exceeds pretty much every NBA player ever, including Michael Jordan whom I personally prefer as a player.

[bonita_the_frog]

^ Even at his peak, LeBron took possessions off defensively, so he's not even in the same universe as Jordan in durability during their peak.
Jordan competed at both ends of the court, and was a vicious on-ball defender, while winning 10 scoring titles.
Flagg doesn't look like the type of player who will take possessions off defensively, so I'm confident he'll be a better defender than LeBron too.
And, not that its the biggest factor in durability but LeBron never played all 82 games during his peak, only in 2017-18.

[mademan]

I think Flagg will end up as a top-15 player all-time, but we’re probably going to see Jokic crack the top 10, Wemby reach the top 7, and Luka finish somewhere in the top 5 by the end of their careers. So even though Flagg looks like a future all-time great, there are likely going to be several current players who’ll rank ahead of him historically.

Lmao.

Luka has been injured so much and a consistent let down. Jokic is a double almost triple MVP, yet he only cracks top 10?

Wemby is way too early to tell but he has the freak body. Remember Anthony Davis was hailed as a freak too.

And then you got Flagg who hasn’t played one season yet.

Top 10 has the likes of Jordan , Shaq, Kareem , Magic, Bill Russell , Wilt etc.

The current retiring superstars of Durant, Curry and LeBron only has LeBron unanimously being top 10 of all time, with Curry breaking in if he wins more.

Do I see Luka being better than the LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, or Magic? Nope. And they’re not even unanimous top 5.

Luka is the best playoff performer since Jordan. Clearly better than even guys like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, etc in the playoffs so far, and younger too. Jokic is a good regular season player, but titles and FMVP's matter more for all-time rankings. Jokic only winning one, and not having the playoff level game to really give me confidence in more caps him at 10. We'll see. Wemby looks like a better potential Duncan on both sides of the ball. It'll come down to health.

There is zero evidence that Luka is a better playoff performer than Jokic. Luka's last great individual playoff run was in 2022. He's been fairly inconsistent in the playoffs since (or he's never been fully healthy in the playoffs since, which is a problem in itself)

[mademan]

Watch Flagg lay an egg tonight after this thread full of lofty expectations based on 1 game, lol

[michaelm]

^ Even at his peak, LeBron took possessions off defensively, so he's not even in the same universe as Jordan in durability during their peak.
Jordan competed at both ends of the court, and was a vicious on-ball defender, while winning 10 scoring titles.
Flagg doesn't look like the type of player who will take possessions off defensively, so I'm confident he'll be a better defender than LeBron too.
And, not that it’s the biggest factor in durability but LeBron never played all 82 games during his peak, only in 2017-18.

I have been called a LeBron hater on other threads, and definitely rate Jordan ahead of him and am also a Tim Duncan and Steph Curry fan.

Jordan also managed it, but being FMVP at age 35 isn’t exactly common. Is Flagg a fluid athlete like them and most of the other players with great longevity ?.

[Dan33185]

I think Flagg will end up as a top-15 player all-time, but we’re probably going to see Jokic crack the top 10, Wemby reach the top 7, and Luka finish somewhere in the top 5 by the end of their careers. So even though Flagg looks like a future all-time great, there are likely going to be several current players who’ll rank ahead of him historically.

Lmao.

Luka has been injured so much and a consistent let down. Jokic is a double almost triple MVP, yet he only cracks top 10?

Wemby is way too early to tell but he has the freak body. Remember Anthony Davis was hailed as a freak too.

And then you got Flagg who hasn’t played one season yet.

Top 10 has the likes of Jordan , Shaq, Kareem , Magic, Bill Russell , Wilt etc.

The current retiring superstars of Durant, Curry and LeBron only has LeBron unanimously being top 10 of all time, with Curry breaking in if he wins more.

Do I see Luka being better than the LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, or Magic? Nope. And they’re not even unanimous top 5.

Luka is the best playoff performer since Jordan. Clearly better than even guys like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, etc in the playoffs so far, and younger too. Jokic is a good regular season player, but titles and FMVP's matter more for all-time rankings. Jokic only winning one, and not having the playoff level game to really give me confidence in more caps him at 10. We'll see. Wemby looks like a better potential Duncan on both sides of the ball. It'll come down to health.

[MavsDirk41]

Watch Flagg lay an egg tonight after this thread full of lofty expectations based on 1 game, lol

I dont think Flagg is a generational player in the mold of a Jordan, James, Bird, Duncan, Magic, Shaq, Kareem…

But i think he is clearly a player you can build your team around and a future all star. Davis and Irving wont be around much longer and the Mavs will be his team. If he averages around 16/5/4 this year i think he will absolutely meet expectations for Mavs fans.

[dirkdiggler4177]

Watch Flagg lay an egg tonight after this thread full of lofty expectations based on 1 game, lol

Started out with 2 assists before a minute had gone by

Another one, and this time against a team that actually cared. I'm very surprised by his vision. Also, his pull-up games seem much better than expected. Like I have been hearing all the time, he is not particularly good, but that seems to be because he does everything really well. He also had a (step-back?) and1 that looked legit but was taken away. Like these things at 18, while also playing great defense. He made a rookie mistake, though, being isolated against a center, not knowing if to drive or shoot. Kidd pulled him after that.

Watch on YouTube

[Johnny Firpo]

Watch Flagg lay an egg tonight after this thread full of lofty expectations based on 1 game, lol

He didn't, but also, who cares if he did? It's preseason, I will wait with my assessment at least until Christmas, and then that's still going to be an early assessment of his game currently. There are so many levels to this, you have to take it one step at a time. Just reacting to another poster, LeBron had a pretty mid rookie season overall, especially compared to what he become later.

Then he made a huge jump in his second year. You could argue Luka had a better rookie season than LeBron did, so I also don't think it's ridiculous to state that Flagg could have a better rookie season than LeBron, but then again, even if he does, that just means that, he will have had a better rookie season. You can't base anything on that, at least compared to LeBron's career and level. LeBron had so many jumps in quality during his career, with so many improvements, refinement.

[UcanUwill]

his release off the dribble is quite slow, I imagine it will be reworked completely. Sometimes it has unwanted results.

[Ice Man]

Watch Flagg lay an egg tonight

He played well except for the 5 TOs. On those plays he looked like a rook trying to figure things out.

[MMyhre]

I think Flagg will end up as a top-15 player all-time, but we’re probably going to see Jokic crack the top 10, Wemby reach the top 7, and Luka finish somewhere in the top 5 by the end of their careers. So even though Flagg looks like a future all-time great, there are likely going to be several current players who’ll rank ahead of him historically.

If Tre Johnson scores 30+ points today I have him as the future top 1 all time. That's all true prophets like you, me and bonitathefrog need, to just give the truth to the people. What great insight and depth we use to come to our conclusions, all of RealGM should praise us as the all seeing beings that we are.
Hallelujah.

[Airmiess]

That's what scientists do, change their opinion when they learn more.
Everybody's opinion will change on Flagg at some point.
But I've never called a rookie a "bust", so highly unlikely.

And to have a better rookie season than LeBron, you don't need identical stats, because you can play a lot better defense than rookie LeBron, and you can shoot a lot better than rookie LeBron (.417 field, .290 threes).

Worth remembering the difference in team environment, pace and defensive context. Directly comparing raw FG% would be both ignorant and stupid, naturally.

Flagg has potential. He might have a rookie campaign better than Lebron's. It's very unlikely, but it is also is not impossible given his talent. That's not really the issue here. Your allergy to context and the notion of sample size is of considerably more concern.

A " ludicrous prediction"?

I haven't made any prediction... other than Flagg's rookie season being better than LeBron's, which is obviously not ludicrous,

No, it's actually super ludicrous.

You are now scrambling to make up some BS to help justify your weird and absurd remark.

Scrambling? By reposting my previous posts? Should I have just ignored the abuse and shut-up?
I was slandered by people who can't read or choose not to, so I had to remind you exactly what I said.

The only prediction I made was Flagg's rookie season, which is obviously not ludicrous at all.
The only area LeBron's rookie season stands out historically, is his passing (even though he only averaged 5.9 assists per game).

You can give extra credit for him being a high schooler, but on face value there have been A LOT of rookies better than rookie LeBron.
And Flagg is clearly a VERY gifted passer, and that's the only area rookie LeBron is likely to be better.

I don't think you know how much speed and endurance rookie LeBron had for the amount of brute strength he carried. It's like a car coming at you over and over.

It has always been what separated him from every other player in history. Flagg can't match that.

[MMyhre]

I think Flagg will end up as a top-15 player all-time, but we’re probably going to see Jokic crack the top 10, Wemby reach the top 7, and Luka finish somewhere in the top 5 by the end of their careers. So even though Flagg looks like a future all-time great, there are likely going to be several current players who’ll rank ahead of him historically.

Lmao.

Luka has been injured so much and a consistent let down. Jokic is a double almost triple MVP, yet he only cracks top 10?

Wemby is way too early to tell but he has the freak body. Remember Anthony Davis was hailed as a freak too.

And then you got Flagg who hasn’t played one season yet.

Top 10 has the likes of Jordan , Shaq, Kareem , Magic, Bill Russell , Wilt etc.

The current retiring superstars of Durant, Curry and LeBron only has LeBron unanimously being top 10 of all time, with Curry breaking in if he wins more.

Do I see Luka being better than the LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, or Magic? Nope. And they’re not even unanimous top 5.

Curry is already top 10 if his career ended today. He has numerous records, 4 championships to his name, leading one of the greatest teams ever.

If he's not in your top 10 with his impact and resume already, you likely don't care how much he wins.

A lot of people has records, 4 rings and led some of the best teams ever.
Russell, Jordan, LeBron, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Kareem, Bryant.. and just because they have more rings than a Hakeem, Garnett, Wilt, Dirk, Bird etc does not mean they have to be greater. The game is too complex to just use achievements as the ultimate measure of ones value on impacting winning in basketball.

Curry has a decent case, but let's not talk as if he is a lock for everyone. He had a very decent crew around him to win those first 3, and Draymond Green was always there to ensure the defense and intangibles was provided.

[bonita_the_frog]

I don't think you know how much speed and endurance rookie LeBron had for the amount of brute strength he carried. It's like a car coming at you over and over.

It has always been what separated him from every other player in history. Flagg can't match that.

Well its still only 20.9 points per game on .417 shooting and 5.9 assists per game, and Flagg can shoot better than that and either score 20ppg or close to, and can play Point Forward and have good assists numbers too... especially without Kyrie there for the first couple of months, Flagg will have the ball A LOT.

[Ice Man]

I don't think you know how much speed and endurance rookie LeBron had for the amount of brute strength he carried. It's like a car coming at you over and over.

It has always been what separated him from every other player in history. Flagg can't match that.

I don't think that anybody here is arguing that Flagg will have a better career than LeBron. Only that he may well have a better rookie season. Which is quite possible, since LeBron's true shooting % as a rookie was a crappy 49%.