How many Lebron years over Peak Hakeem?

[falcolombardi]

I just saw someone compare lebron defense to trae young, that is a new one to add to a list

Would this be a list of things you can't talk about intelligently? It's easy to have an opinion on someone elses opinion. How about you tell me exactly how good LeBron James defense was in the 2011 finals.

Man if you bring a outlandish opinion (young>lebron defensively) is on you to back it up lmao

[ShotCreator]

I just saw someone compare lebron defense to trae young, that is a new one to add to a list

Would this be a list of things you can't talk about intelligently? It's easy to have an opinion on someone elses opinion. How about you tell me exactly how good LeBron James defense was in the 2011 finals.

Man if you bring a outlandish opinion (young>lebron defensively) is on you to back it up lmao

I never said Young was better than 11 LeBron on defense. I’m not even talking about that anymore.


I’m just talking about what you think 2011 LeBron did defensively in the Finals that year.

If you don’t have a an actual, real stance on that, it’s fine. But I don’t know why you would make a dismissive post about my post if don’t.

[Snakebites]

I think 12, 13, and 16 are easy calls, with a few others that you could probably talk me into. Lebron is my GOAT.

Hakeem has a truly impressive 3 year peak. But I’d take most Lebron years over other Hakeem years.

[falcolombardi]

Would this be a list of things you can't talk about intelligently? It's easy to have an opinion on someone elses opinion. How about you tell me exactly how good LeBron James defense was in the 2011 finals.

Man if you bring a outlandish opinion (young>lebron defensively) is on you to back it up lmao

I never said Young was better than 11 LeBron on defense. I’m not even talking about that anymore.


I’m just talking about what you think 2011 LeBron did defensively in the Finals that year.

If you don’t have a an actual, real stance on that, it’s fine. But I don’t know why you would make a dismissive post about my post if don’t.

You did before editing the defnense part out of your comment lol

[falcolombardi]

I think 12, 13, and 16 are easy calls, with a few others that you could probably talk me into. Lebron is my GOAT.

Hakeem has a truly impressive 3 year peak. But I’d take most Lebron years over other Hakeem years.

I would easily add 2009 to that too despite the somewhat understamdable skillset concern it is still maybe the most impactful season ever played

2017 and 2018 was goat level offense albeit with a drop in defense energy but is another great pick

[Top10alltime]

I think 12, 13, and 16 are easy calls, with a few others that you could probably talk me into. Lebron is my GOAT.

Hakeem has a truly impressive 3 year peak. But I’d take most Lebron years over other Hakeem years.

I would easily add 2009 to that too despite the somewhat understamdable skillset concern it is still maybe the most impactful season ever played

2017 and 2018 was goat level offense albeit with a drop in defense energy but is another great pick

2018 no, the defense just can't beat out peak Hakeem.

2017 maybe, that might be his peak anyways

[Snakebites]

I think 12, 13, and 16 are easy calls, with a few others that you could probably talk me into. Lebron is my GOAT.

Hakeem has a truly impressive 3 year peak. But I’d take most Lebron years over other Hakeem years.

I would easily add 2009 to that too despite the somewhat understamdable skillset concern it is still maybe the most impactful season ever played

2017 and 2018 was goat level offense albeit with a drop in defense energy but is another great pick

Yeah I could easily get behind those years too.

[Snakebites]

Which year do people view as Hakeem’s peak?

94 seems like the pick to me, though 93 is a better regular season. 95 is his best playoff run- destroyed both Shaq and Robinson in playoff series- who were his primarily challengers for best center (and best player if you don’t count Jordan’s comeback) at the time.

Or are we just kind of talking about that three year run collectively?

[migya]

Proper evaluation involves context of competition faced, load carried and overall level on both ends. Olajuwon's peak, either year from 93-95, has a case for top 10 alltime. His defense is certainly levels above Lebron, his scoring I think was better in this context and he carried probably more also. Even with Drexler, Hakeem had to carry on both ends and he did unlike most others.

[One_and_Done]

Proper evaluation involves context of competition faced, load carried and overall level on both ends. Olajuwon's peak, either year from 93-95, has a case for top 10 alltime. His defense is certainly levels above Lebron, his scoring I think was better in this context and he carried probably more also. Even with Drexler, Hakeem had to carry on both ends and he did unlike most others.

Or the context that the league Hakeem played in was incredibly weak compared to modern basketball.

[Cavsfansince84]

Which year do people view as Hakeem’s peak?

94 seems like the pick to me, though 93 is a better regular season. 95 is his best playoff run- destroyed both Shaq and Robinson in playoff series- who were his primarily challengers for best center (and best player if you don’t count Jordan’s comeback) at the time.

Or are we just kind of talking about that three year run collectively?

I think it's however you want to interpret it. Some use 94 Hakeem, some use 93 and others might even use 95.

[ShotCreator]

Man if you bring a outlandish opinion (young>lebron defensively) is on you to back it up lmao

I never said Young was better than 11 LeBron on defense. I’m not even talking about that anymore.


I’m just talking about what you think 2011 LeBron did defensively in the Finals that year.

If you don’t have a an actual, real stance on that, it’s fine. But I don’t know why you would make a dismissive post about my post if don’t.

You did before editing the defnense part out of your comment lol

What are you talking about? You realize I know you are lying right?

Who are you saying this for? The 10 people reading this interaction?

You’ve said nothing in about 3 posts. That says enough.

[Djoker]

Guys, the high end valuation of Hakeem's peak is pretty absurdly high... Zero is a fair answer.

On the offensive end, by 1994, he greatly improved his passing and the Rockets offense in the playoffs was quite good. Not super duper historically dominant but very good around +6 over the two title years. An optimistic view of his offense would put him clearly below but still relatively close to someone like Shaq so that's fringe top 10 or to be safe top 15 all time player on offense. Hakeem's offense was also very inelastic. There's basically little you could do to take away his isolation scoring and he's also among the best rounded C's in terms of being able to hit from the outside and shoot well from the free throw line. Basically at his peak, he was incredibly difficult to scheme against.

On defense, sky is the limit. One can easily claim that Hakeem is the second best defender ever after Russell with his ridiculous combination of vertical and horizontal defense that no one else can match. So #2 all-time on defense is his high end valuation and quite honestly that one is very reasonable.

When you combine those two assessments: top 15 all-timer on offense plus top 2 on defense, it's pretty easy to argue his peak which is probably 1994 over Lebron. And especially so if you emphasize the playoffs. Regular season Hakeem doesn't look an impact giant in his era so while I would feel safe saying Lebron is better in the regular season, Hakeem is one of those guys that really gets a ton better in the PS, maybe more so than any other legend ever. Unfortunately, we have no impact metrics for playoff Hakeem but honestly I would be shocked if they aren't otherworldly.

That said, me personally, I have Hakeem a hair behind Shaq and Lebron so I think I'd pick a couple of Lebron seasons over him. Thinking 2012 and 2009. With defense, I don't think you can reasonably demote Hakeem much as his track record is impeccable but on offense you can if you're down on his passing and don't appreciate his inelastic moderately efficient scoring. There's legitimate concerns about his portability with other high usage players because he isn't such an off-ball force like Shaq is. Ironically I think young 80's Hakeem who was super quick and a monster on the offensive boards is better off-ball but his passing in those years had major limitations. Unfortunately, he never quite put it all together like 2000 Shaq who peaked in almost all if not all major areas of his game that year. Lebron didn't peak in all areas at the same time but I think 2012 and 2013 (though the latter PS run is a bit meh..) is pretty close to both his offensive and defensive peaks.

[kcktiny]

One can easily claim that Hakeem is the second best defender

Hard to argue against this.

In your opinion how do Dream and DRob compare defensively, peak and career?

[Djoker]

One can easily claim that Hakeem is the second best defender

Hard to argue against this.

In your opinion how do Dream and DRob compare defensively, peak and career?

I would go with Dream by a hair on both counts. I think he was more agile and versatile which meant his horizontal game was a bit better. Not that Robinson wasn't amazing in terms of horizontal defense but Hakeem almost seemed superhuman with how quick his feet were on defense for a man his size.

That said, my defensive ranges are kind of wide. I think the top 10 or 15 best defensive C's are all in the same tier.

[kcktiny]

I literally can't separate the two in terms of defense in their primes - Dream and DRob. Think both were just a tad better defensively than any Cs since, including Mutombo, Mourning, Shaq, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard, and Gobert.

[migya]

One can easily claim that Hakeem is the second best defender

Hard to argue against this.

In your opinion how do Dream and DRob compare defensively, peak and career?

I would go with Dream by a hair on both counts. I think he was more agile and versatile which meant his horizontal game was a bit better. Not that Robinson wasn't amazing in terms of horizontal defense but Hakeem almost seemed superhuman with how quick his feet were on defense for a man his size.

That said, my defensive ranges are kind of wide. I think the top 10 or 15 best defensive C's are all in the same tier.

Both are definitely among the best ever, case for second best ever. I probably agree with your take here, though it has been a while since I saw footage of both these guys. Both were amazing at getting off the ground with super speed to block shots. Haven't seen anyone like them. They would bait guards into driving to the basket and then wait for them to jump before jumping themselves at or just after the ball released from the player's hands. Impossible to not get blocked.