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Free Noa.

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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#61 » by Chi town » Sat Oct 11, 2025 10:59 pm

vxmike wrote:
coldfish wrote:This thread is insane. The Bulls already tried unearned entitlement minutes, their name is Patrick Williams. It don't work. It won't work.

If Noa starts badly outplaying the other players than we can talk. I'm totally fine with the Buzelis plan for Noa.


Minutes for young guys who play super hard and have upside? That’s possibly worthwhile. You don’t develop on the bench.

Minutes for a lazy player with no motor just because he was a #4 pick? Nah, that’s wasteful.

If Noa plays hard and shows progressive development it won’t be the same as Williams.


Exactly.

Noa has a motor. I believe he will be playing over Dalen and Phillips after the first 20 games and if Pat doesn’t keep his motor up he will be taking all his mins too.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#62 » by Jstock12 » Sun Oct 12, 2025 11:53 am

Didn't Matas praise Billy's approach to hold him accountable? I was a little critical of it last season, but I think it helps the first round rookies to keep their ego in check and prevents them from crashing and burning when facing truly elite competition for the first time in their lives. Start your rookie season in a limited role while not being asked too much (mostly just defense & energy). Let Noa earn his minutes like Matas has. If anything, Billy seems to be fair and if he sees you actually contributing, you'll see your minutes increased. I think awarding "entitlement" minutes can also negatively affect the locker room. Let it be a meritocracy.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#63 » by sco » Sun Oct 12, 2025 12:20 pm

Jstock12 wrote:Didn't Matas praise Billy's approach to hold him accountable? I was a little critical of it last season, but I think it helps the first round rookies to keep their ego in check and prevents them from crashing and burning when facing truly elite competition for the first time in their lives. Start your rookie season in a limited role while not being asked too much (mostly just defense & energy). Let Noa earn his minutes like Matas has. If anything, Billy seems to be fair and if he sees you actually contributing, you'll see your minutes increased. I think awarding "entitlement" minutes can also negatively affect the locker room. Let it be a meritocracy.

I agree. Also, rookies just don't have a full season of play in them. They hit the wall at some point. By starting them slow, you increase your chances at giving them their most minutes when they are more ready to play productively.

Also, I like the idea of having Pat be the hurdle for Noa to get over for minutes. Pat is a decent backup PF, but the bar isn't so high that a good version of Noa couldn't surpass. I also like Pat feeling the pressure of Noa taking minutes.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#64 » by Ice Man » Sun Oct 12, 2025 12:36 pm

I'm struggling to find examples that would make a thread like this necessary, that is when Bulls rookies have not received sufficient minutes. Bobby Portis had 20 DNPs as a rookie, so maybe there, but he did get 18 mpg when he did play. Jimmy Butler definitely deserved more playing time, but he did have the bad luck of 1) playing for Thibs and 2) being on the team with the best record in the entire NBA.

Then there was Rose, but that complaint is \different than a complaint about Noa would be. because Derrick played a lot. The quarrel being that Skiles would often pull him for Kirk during crunch time. But again, that's a different issue.

And all things were soon rectified. By Year 3, Jimmy was at 39 minutes per game (!), Portis was at 24 (which remains his career average, no team every wanted to play him more than that), and Rose was MVP.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#65 » by dougthonus » Sun Oct 12, 2025 12:59 pm

Ice Man wrote:I'm struggling to find examples that would make a thread like this necessary, that is when Bulls rookies have not received sufficient minutes. Bobby Portis had 20 DNPs as a rookie, so maybe there, but he did get 18 mpg when he did play. Jimmy Butler definitely deserved more playing time, but he did have the bad luck of 1) playing for Thibs and 2) being on the team with the best record in the entire NBA.

Then there was Rose, but that complaint is \different than a complaint about Noa would be. because Derrick played a lot. The quarrel being that Skiles would often pull him for Kirk during crunch time. But again, that's a different issue.

And all things were soon rectified. By Year 3, Jimmy was at 39 minutes per game (!), Portis was at 24 (which remains his career average, no team every wanted to play him more than that), and Rose was MVP.


FWIW, that was VDN that played Kirk over Rose.

I note only because Skiles was awesome, and VDN was a moron, so I don't want anyone to confuse the two :lol:

But yeah, this hasn't really been a problem IMO.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#66 » by Ice Man » Sun Oct 12, 2025 2:07 pm

dougthonus wrote:FWIW, that was VDN that played Kirk over Rose.


Ha! My memory was playing tricks on me, so I googled and the AI's answer to who was Rose's rookie coach was "Scott Skiles." That's what I get for trusting the source.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#67 » by Evil_Headband » Sun Oct 12, 2025 2:08 pm

One of the things to think about is whether there can be collateral damage when a team plays a player who isn't ready. Having a player struggle with schemes, reads, etc. can negatively influence the development of other players on the floor.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#68 » by GoBlue72391 » Sun Oct 12, 2025 6:28 pm

Chi town wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
Chi town wrote:This draft class is off to a STRONG START.

- Flagg Ace and VJ all look really good.

- CMB looks like a 2 way winning player

- Kon looks like a high IQ movement shooter

- Yang looks like Sengun


Noa won’t be playing enough mins to show anything. Lots of patience will be required when all these other rookies are showing out in rotation roles.


Good luck with that.

Why didn't the Bulls draft insert player here instead?


That’s what we will hear for sure but I’m still all in on Noa. 6’11 Tayshaun Prince ish type is highly valuable in this league and I believe in his moxy, IQ, and work ethic.

How do you know anything about his moxy and work ethic? Every player gets hyped up as a hard worker. Pat and Dalen are supposedly hard workers. Could've fooled me.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#69 » by PaKii94 » Sun Oct 12, 2025 7:04 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
Good luck with that.

Why didn't the Bulls draft insert player here instead?


That’s what we will hear for sure but I’m still all in on Noa. 6’11 Tayshaun Prince ish type is highly valuable in this league and I believe in his moxy, IQ, and work ethic.

How do you know anything about his moxy and work ethic? Every player gets hyped up as a hard worker. Pat and Dalen are supposedly hard workers. Could've fooled me.


Hardworking can be separate from getting results. The hard work has to be applied the right way.

Anyway Noa has shown more in Europe then either of those players had.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#70 » by PaKii94 » Sun Oct 12, 2025 7:06 pm

Right now I want him to just get nba minutes to get NBA timing and play style down. Then the next 2-3 years he will be bulking up and hopefully grows 2-3 inches. An improvement on his shot then bingo. We got ourselves a modern center (turner but better/more dynamic)
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#71 » by 2weekswithpay » Sun Oct 12, 2025 7:26 pm

I read this article a while back about how shooting should be at the center of almost every player's offseason workout plan.

I’ve found that improving a player’s shooting is the quickest way to influence their game. Most players have significant opportunities for growth in this area, so better shooting can significantly boost their overall performance. After achieving this small win together, it opens up the opportunity for honest conversations about how they view their game within not only their team but the larger NBA ecosystem.


Last summer, I worked with a 15-year vet. He has played in the EuroLeague, China, and nearly every country you can think of, accomplishing incredible success.

During our first conversation, this player expressed what he wanted to work on during the offseason. It was a laundry list of actions, moves, and different types of specific shots. This is a common theme among players, regardless of their level of experience. From youth to the NBA, they all want to work on everything.

The problem with working on everything is that you can only put a limited amount of time into each thing, making it ineffective in terms of compounding. Sure, you are getting “better,” but you are not getting any type of compounding effect.


Maybe the issue isn't work ethic, but players not prioritizing the right things.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#72 » by MrSparkle » Sun Oct 12, 2025 8:21 pm

2weekswithpay wrote:I read this article a while back about how shooting should be at the center of almost every player's offseason workout plan.

I’ve found that improving a player’s shooting is the quickest way to influence their game. Most players have significant opportunities for growth in this area, so better shooting can significantly boost their overall performance. After achieving this small win together, it opens up the opportunity for honest conversations about how they view their game within not only their team but the larger NBA ecosystem.


Last summer, I worked with a 15-year vet. He has played in the EuroLeague, China, and nearly every country you can think of, accomplishing incredible success.

During our first conversation, this player expressed what he wanted to work on during the offseason. It was a laundry list of actions, moves, and different types of specific shots. This is a common theme among players, regardless of their level of experience. From youth to the NBA, they all want to work on everything.

The problem with working on everything is that you can only put a limited amount of time into each thing, making it ineffective in terms of compounding. Sure, you are getting “better,” but you are not getting any type of compounding effect.


Maybe the issue isn't work ethic, but players not prioritizing the right things.


This is perhaps the bane of Bulls development the last 15Y. Glad they got the shooting coach for year, but how many players have we had who underachieved in the shooting department after seeing a summer hype video reel of their workout routines, adding muscle, dribbling 5 basketballs, working on defense, etc.

Not that the stuff isn't important, but at the end of the day, how different would it be if McDermott, Portis, Lauri, even Coby, Wendell just hammered in shooting from the gate? For some of these guys it was their bread-and-butter coming in (especially Doug, Lauri and Coby), yet their percentages as young Bulls were below league average.

Which brings me to Pat... "Good" shooter, stuck on low-volume and streaky confidence. How easy would it have been to simply his game to chucking open 3Ps at a high rate at a good clip? Instead, I have no idea what his actual purpose is in the offense.

Then Dalen and Julian seem like DEEP projects. Getting brutal open shooters to gain NBA range is a tall order.

Anyway, hopefully Noa and Matas buck the trend.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#73 » by Chi town » Sun Oct 12, 2025 8:28 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
Good luck with that.

Why didn't the Bulls draft insert player here instead?


That’s what we will hear for sure but I’m still all in on Noa. 6’11 Tayshaun Prince ish type is highly valuable in this league and I believe in his moxy, IQ, and work ethic.

How do you know anything about his moxy and work ethic? Every player gets hyped up as a hard worker. Pat and Dalen are supposedly hard workers. Could've fooled me.


Billy went in detail on his work ethic and IQ last week and how he knows how to play.

His moxy is evident and teammates have commented how he has no fear and attacks.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#74 » by GoBlue72391 » Sun Oct 12, 2025 10:22 pm

Chi town wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
That’s what we will hear for sure but I’m still all in on Noa. 6’11 Tayshaun Prince ish type is highly valuable in this league and I believe in his moxy, IQ, and work ethic.

How do you know anything about his moxy and work ethic? Every player gets hyped up as a hard worker. Pat and Dalen are supposedly hard workers. Could've fooled me.


Billy went in detail on his work ethic and IQ last week and how he knows how to play.

His moxy is evident and teammates have commented how he has no fear and attacks.

Fair enough I guess, but words don't mean much to me. Coaches and teammates praised Pat to the moon and back, talking about him waking up at 4 am to work out with Demar and all sorts of other fluff stuff about how he can be a star and all that. A coach isn't going to say, "He's got a low work ethic, he does the bare minimum." And moxy is one of those nebulous, unmeasurable things that doesn't really mean anything.

I'm not saying Essengue is lazy or doesn't work hard, I'm just saying none of us can really know his or any other player's work ethic, dedication, motivation, etc., unless you're around that player every day and can actually see what he's all about.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#75 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Sun Oct 12, 2025 11:13 pm

The season hasn’t even started yet and he’s like 14 lol
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#76 » by MrSparkle » Mon Oct 13, 2025 1:06 am

So... 4 minutes in a pre-season game doesn't sound promising.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#77 » by GimmeDat » Mon Oct 13, 2025 1:49 am

I agree there's no one size fits all approach to this stuff. I think it depends on the player and their approach as well. It's not necessarily about who is better in a vacuum for minutes, but having to make players earn things and focus in the little things they may not when gifted minutes feels like it makes sense.

Obviously, there's exceptions to that when you're clearly holding back the superior player for minutes (see Rose eg.), and you don't want to completely deprive them of on-court opportunity, as that's where you grow the most.
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#78 » by ghostinthepost1 » Mon Oct 13, 2025 1:55 pm

Really seems like he's putting in the work.

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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#79 » by dougthonus » Mon Oct 13, 2025 4:21 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:How do you know anything about his moxy and work ethic? Every player gets hyped up as a hard worker. Pat and Dalen are supposedly hard workers. Could've fooled me.


In the end, it is likely the vast majority of NBA players are hard workers and work ethic probably isn't that big a differentiator because they're already at 95th percentile plus in terms of effort. You are competing to be a top 100 person in the world at something, it's probably generally the case that everyone in the running to be a top 100 in the world at something is likely already putting in the effort, and the gaps in this area probably aren't nearly as significant as the physical gaps (whether they be raw athleticism that allows you to move faster / jump higher or fine motor control that allows you to shoot amazingly consistently).
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Re: Free Noa. 

Post#80 » by Ice Man » Mon Oct 13, 2025 9:09 pm

dougthonus wrote:In the end, it is likely the vast majority of NBA players are hard workers and work ethic probably isn't that big a differentiator because they're already at 95th percentile plus in terms of effort. You are competing to be a top 100 person in the world at something, it's probably generally the case that everyone in the running to be a top 100 in the world at something is likely already putting in the effort, and the gaps in this area probably aren't nearly as significant as the physical gaps (whether they be raw athleticism that allows you to move faster / jump higher or fine motor control that allows you to shoot amazingly consistently).


Yep. It's a lot easer to find a guy who will run through walls than it is to find somebody with the talent to be an NBA baller. The first attribute is a (necessary) commodity, while the second is the true rarity.

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