2025-26 Off-Season

[jbk1234]

After watching two games against the Bulls this preseason, two things jump out at me: 1) The Bulls are going to be better this season; and 2) Atkinson needs to reconsider whether he wants to get into a track meet for 48 minutes with less talented teams who want to play at an insane pace. This is particularly the case when you're undermanned.

Sounds like the 2025 semis against the Pacers all over again hahaha

It's a copy cat league.

[JonFromVA]

Caruso is the exception that proves the rule. There's only one guy like him in the entire NBA. I don't think telling Garland to go play like Caruso is going to work.

So you don't like stats and you don't like examples.

Got it.

The formula used to be if you played for Izzo at Michigan State, you probably knew how to play defense.

I don't know what to tell you if you think smaller players who build up their core and learn how to use their lower center of gravity and quicker hands and feet to their advantage are the exception.

Caruso's defense is an example like SGA is an example of efficient midrange shooting. It's theoretically possible, but the fact that's it's (exceedingly) rare suggests it's unlikely to work out. If I suggested to you that Caruso could develop an offensive game as good as Garland's, I suspect that prediction would be meet with some skepticism as there's a degree to which some skills are innate.

You don't have to carry the example to the extreme, but you're not taking in to account that the NBA is a league where playing defense is often optional. Actually putting in the time & effort on that end of the floor in combination with certain per-requisites makes a huge difference.

[ijspeelman]

After watching two games against the Bulls this preseason, two things jump out at me: 1) The Bulls are going to be better this season; and 2) Atkinson needs to reconsider whether he wants to get into a track meet for 48 minutes with less talented teams who want to play at an insane pace. This is particularly the case when you're undermanned.

Sounds like the 2025 semis against the Pacers all over again hahaha

It's a copy cat league.

Eh Bulls were doing this last year as well. They had the second fastest pace in the league last year (only behind the Grizz)

[jbk1234]

Sounds like the 2025 semis against the Pacers all over again hahaha

It's a copy cat league.

Eh Bulls were doing this last year as well. They had the second fastest pace in the league last year (only behind the Grizz)

That's kind of the point. There are going to be less talented teams that try to win by playing that way. If you're better in half court sets than they are, you don't have to play their game.

[toooskies]

Takes from last night:
- The Cavs shot awfully last night, particularly in the 2nd quarter. The Bulls got us off-rhythm and missing Garland really showed.
- Tyson didn't look bad but made a few mistakes. If he's going to play we're going to have to live with the mistakes and hope the diving for loose balls makes up for it.
- Donovan doesn't look like he's trying to play PG as much as we're going to make up for missing DG in the aggregate.
- Allen's missing bunnies.
- Wade got the rotation spot ahead of Nance this game, which seemed like a dress rehearsal rotation for three quarters.
- CPJ and Proctor came back to earth shooting the ball. I still liked Proctor's game-- Jevon Carter has been a pretty good defender in the league and Proctor got what he wanted on him, mostly. Just didn't knock down the shots.
- 1 steal and 0 blocks by the bench.
- Lonzo looked better but I wouldn't say I've liked what I've seen yet.

[jbk1234]

Takes from last night:
- The Cavs shot awfully last night, particularly in the 2nd quarter. The Bulls got us off-rhythm and missing Garland really showed.
- Tyson didn't look bad but made a few mistakes. If he's going to play we're going to have to live with the mistakes and hope the diving for loose balls makes up for it.
- Donovan doesn't look like he's trying to play PG as much as we're going to make up for missing DG in the aggregate.
- Allen's missing bunnies.
- Wade got the rotation spot ahead of Nance this game, which seemed like a dress rehearsal rotation for three quarters.
- CPJ and Proctor came back to earth shooting the ball. I still liked Proctor's game-- Jevon Carter has been a pretty good defender in the league and Proctor got what he wanted on him, mostly. Just didn't knock down the shots.
- 1 steal and 0 blocks by the bench.
- Lonzo looked better but I wouldn't say I've liked what I've seen yet.

The Bulls also killed us on second chance points. I don't know if that's a product of them having four defenders in the paint leaving us unable to secure an offensive rebound, whether our role players still need to work on crashing the boards, or a combination of both.

I think we can get by, as opposed to being good,
on offense without two of Garland, Strus, and Merrill, but with all three out, it's janky.

I'm reserving judgment on Ball until the regular season. It seems clear he's trying to avoid injury.

[JonFromVA]

Takes from last night:
- The Cavs shot awfully last night, particularly in the 2nd quarter. The Bulls got us off-rhythm and missing Garland really showed.
- Tyson didn't look bad but made a few mistakes. If he's going to play we're going to have to live with the mistakes and hope the diving for loose balls makes up for it.
- Donovan doesn't look like he's trying to play PG as much as we're going to make up for missing DG in the aggregate.
- Allen's missing bunnies.
- Wade got the rotation spot ahead of Nance this game, which seemed like a dress rehearsal rotation for three quarters.
- CPJ and Proctor came back to earth shooting the ball. I still liked Proctor's game-- Jevon Carter has been a pretty good defender in the league and Proctor got what he wanted on him, mostly. Just didn't knock down the shots.
- 1 steal and 0 blocks by the bench.
- Lonzo looked better but I wouldn't say I've liked what I've seen yet.

The Bulls also killed us on second chance points. I don't know if that's a product of them having four defenders in the paint leaving us unable to secure an offensive rebound, whether our role players still need to work on crashing the boards, or a combination of both.

I think we can get by, as opposed to being good,
on offense without two of Garland, Strus, and Merrill, but with all three out, it's janky.

I'm reserving judgment on Ball until the regular season. It seems clear he's trying to avoid injury.

20 games in to the regular season is my standard benchmark, admittedly the Cavs didn't need that long last season to see it was going to be a special season.

[JonFromVA]

20 games in to the regular season is my standard benchmark, admittedly the Cavs didn't need that long last season to see it was going to be a special season.

I'll add to that pre-season is one of the few times coaches and players get to experiment, and it can be used as a lab for various purposes rather than simply trying to do the same things. Young players want to prove themselves, older players may only want to work on certain aspects on their game and avoid injury (as jbk pointed out might be the case with Lonzo).

That being said, it would be nice if our deep end of benchers played better.

[JujitsuFlip]

20 games in to the regular season is my standard benchmark, admittedly the Cavs didn't need that long last season to see it was going to be a special season.

I'll add to that pre-season is one of the few times coaches and players get to experiment, and it can be used as a lab for various purposes rather than simply trying to do the same things. Young players want to prove themselves, older players may only want to work on certain aspects on their game and avoid injury (as jbk pointed out might be the case with Lonzo).

That being said, it would be nice if our deep end of benchers played better.

I'm still wondering if any of the exhibit 10 guys will nab the final two-way slot.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/cavaliers-to-sign-cleveland-charge-player-to-camp-deal-01k7517dng65

Looks like a way to get their guy paid, not sure who they will waive to make room for him.

[ijspeelman]

Am going to the preseason game. Wanted to wait for tix to get as cheap as possible lol

[jbk1234]

This is the type of game where you almost have to be a paid employee of the Cavs to watch.

Tomlin, Bryant, and Travers are all playing in the 1st quarter. CPJ, Proctor, Tyson, Wade, and Nance started.

The Celtics started White, Pritchard, Brown, Boucher, and Hauser.

You can imagine how it's going.

[jbk1234]

Enaruna actually showing some things.

[jbk1234]

I think Tomlin might be more of a natural SF than big man.

[jbk1234]

So the Cavs are 7 for 35 from 3 at half. I'd like to see Hayes get run as the primary ball handler in the second, but even if does, I'm not sure I can continue to watch this game.

[ijspeelman]

Terrible game, but fun to be there live. IDK if its just me, but I am really impressed with Tyson and to a lesser extend (but still impressed) Proctor

Celts played their actual line-up whereas Cavs played their bench and their bench's bench and then their bench's bench's bench. Not really much to take away

[ijspeelman]

Snuck into really good seats. Was right behind Doris Burke and Mark Jones

Watch on YouTube

[toooskies]

Dean Wade 2/14 from three in the preseason. Nance 1/13. Tyson 3/14. Ball 1/5. Tomlin 3/12. We aren't going to be successful when our shooters aren't shooting.

Hopefully it's just preseason tuneups but my takeaway right now is that we're not in-rhythm shooting the ball. We took an absurd 60 attempts from three against the Celtics. We missed a ton of open ones. If we match Boston's 3FG%, we score 36 more points (and probably lose a few second chance points) and it's a ballgame even though we should've been out-classed.

I've been underwhelmed by the defense of our 2nd unit, particularly CPJ, and there's not a lot of help at the rim with LNJ and Wade as our bigs.

[JujitsuFlip]

Dean Wade 2/14 from three in the preseason. Nance 1/13. Tyson 3/14. Ball 1/5. Tomlin 3/12. We aren't going to be successful when our shooters aren't shooting.

Hopefully it's just preseason tuneups but my takeaway right now is that we're not in-rhythm shooting the ball. We took an absurd 60 attempts from three against the Celtics. We missed a ton of open ones. If we match Boston's 3FG%, we score 36 more points (and probably lose a few second chance points) and it's a ballgame even though we should've been out-classed.

I've been underwhelmed by the defense of our 2nd unit, particularly CPJ, and there's not a lot of help at the rim with LNJ and Wade as our bigs.

Bryant has went a combined 5/11 from deep in the preseason. Too bad he's behind Tomlin on the depth chart.

[jbk1234]

Dean Wade 2/14 from three in the preseason. Nance 1/13. Tyson 3/14. Ball 1/5. Tomlin 3/12. We aren't going to be successful when our shooters aren't shooting.

Hopefully it's just preseason tuneups but my takeaway right now is that we're not in-rhythm shooting the ball. We took an absurd 60 attempts from three against the Celtics. We missed a ton of open ones. If we match Boston's 3FG%, we score 36 more points (and probably lose a few second chance points) and it's a ballgame even though we should've been out-classed.

I've been underwhelmed by the defense of our 2nd unit, particularly CPJ, and there's not a lot of help at the rim with LNJ and Wade as our bigs.

I don't know if you watched, but CPJ was the only one able to beat his man off the dribble (some times). When he did, the paint was crowded, and he either couldn't get to the rim or couldn't finish. Most of the game was five-out sets with guys passing around the perimeter before settling for 3s they couldn't make.

With the possible exception of Proctor who may eventually get there, everyone on the court was a 4th or 5th option offensively. Tyson's absolute ceiling is Josh Hart. CPJ is still an in-case-of-emergency PG who needs to play on the ball too be even marginally effective. Both Wade and Nance are pretty useless offensively when their teammates can't force a defensive rotation. I'm not convinced anyone else who played deserves a roster spot.