Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[Thaddy]

Think we gotta give it some time. See how the team looks together.

If same result and no progress then next season I would explore it.

He clearly also has a knee injury. He isn't trying to dunk in the warm ups either. I think he'll come around by the start of the season.

[CPT]

If not for the extension, are people thinking he'd have gotten the Kuminga/Giddey treatment as an RFA?

I think Brooklyn would have thrown a max at him, and maybe some other teams would have tried to move things around to make an offer.

RFA is weird though, so who knows.

No way. He has far too much floor impact from his defense and transition play. The offense isn't great but he's still a strong floor impact player.

He was the best player on the team today and a big reason why we won. He's worth his deal and would get it again. This is also preseason.

Casual fans look at scoring and think some players are great. Barnes is the opposite of empty calories.

Agreed. I don't think he's anywhere close to "toxic asset" status, even if his contract is a bit of an overpay. There are more max contracts than all-NBA-level superstars, so some of them won't be "worth it," but if you want them on your team, that's the price.

He might not be one of those "top 25 trade assets in the league" anymore, but a lot of guys lose that status as soon as they sign an extension (as if the extension would not become an issue for a new team). It's the player version of draft picks vs. players in the league who are actually good.

I recognize there are practical reasons for this. If your player on a rookie contract is any good you're basically stealing vs having to (over)pay for their production on an extension. It also changes what teams would have to do to accomodate a contract of that size. Rookie contract Scottie Barnes? Every team in the league shuffles some contracts around to make room. $40M contract Scottie Barnes? You need to make some real decisions to accomodate that salary slot, and the number of teams willing to do so may be lower. I still think that number of teams might be fairly high, but we have a season to play and a new cap environment that is still in flux.

[Thaddy]

If not for the extension, are people thinking he'd have gotten the Kuminga/Giddey treatment as an RFA?

I think Brooklyn would have thrown a max at him, and maybe some other teams would have tried to move things around to make an offer.

RFA is weird though, so who knows.

No way. He has far too much floor impact from his defense and transition play. The offense isn't great but he's still a strong floor impact player.

He was the best player on the team today and a big reason why we won. He's worth his deal and would get it again. This is also preseason.

Casual fans look at scoring and think some players are great. Barnes is the opposite of empty calories.

Agreed. I don't think he's anywhere close to "toxic asset" status, even if his contract is a bit of an overpay. There are more max contracts than all-NBA-level superstars, so some of them won't be "worth it," but if you want them on your team, that's the price.

He might not be one of those "top 25 trade assets in the league" anymore, but a lot of guys lose that status as soon as they sign an extension (as if the extension would not become an issue for a new team). It's the player version of draft picks vs. players in the league who are actually good.

I recognize there are practical reasons for this. If your player on a rookie contract is any good you're basically stealing vs having to (over)pay for their production on an extension. It also changes what teams would have to do to accomodate a contract of that size. Rookie contract Scottie Barnes? Every team in the league shuffles some contracts around to make room. $40M contract Scottie Barnes? You need to make some real decisions to accomodate that salary slot, and the number of teams willing to do so may be lower. I still think that number of teams might be fairly high, but we have a season to play and a new cap environment that is still in flux.

I don't put stock into awards anymore. It's more of a popularity contest than actual skills and dominance.

Barnes is worth his contract as he is, and I think he's already all defense level. He's dealing with a knee injury and should dominate in the paint once it's better. I noticed he isn't dunking even in warm ups. The way the fanbase believes he sat out and faked an injury is ridiculous. Barnes isn't that type of person or player.

I think eventually him and CMB put together a top 5 defense and transition offense. Their scoring will gradually come along as they get playoff experience.

[MikeM]

Worst thing for this franchise was a top 5 pick. We blew up the team for this guy..

[Psubs]

Worst thing for this franchise was a top 5 pick. We blew up the team for this guy..

Kawhi left and the team didn't blow it up fast enough because they wanted to still make the post-championship money.

Had they not moved up, I would've drafted Franz Wagner. Wagner though can't shoot the 3 either.

Hopefully with Ingram, there is a clear #1 scoring option over Scottie so he can focus on being all-NBA defense and only have to score 17-18ppg but more efficiently.

[Mattatron]

Worst thing for this franchise was a top 5 pick. We blew up the team for this guy..

Raptors Org. didn't blew up the Team because of Scottie, they blew it up because it has reached its limits and it was expensive. Also the player wanted some fresh air and wanted to compete. The Raptors-Leftover-Core had their peak years before they left.

[PushDaRock]

If not for the extension, are people thinking he'd have gotten the Kuminga/Giddey treatment as an RFA?

I think Brooklyn would have thrown a max at him, and maybe some other teams would have tried to move things around to make an offer.

RFA is weird though, so who knows.

It would have been a weird situation and I think it would have gotten contentious. It's hard for me to imagine he would have gotten the full max after the year he just had while teams have gone penny pinching.

[MiamiSPX]

Between the preseason GDT threads, and the various trade Scottie threads, I’ve seen some misconceptions that should be cleared up.

- Scottie’s extension only starts this season. So we have not seen him play yet while making this new, larger salary.

- The media is as guilty of this as anyone, but I wish we would refer to salaries as “he’s making HIS max”. Constantly throwing out that he’s on a max contract, while technically true, makes it sound like he’s one of the top 10-15 highest paid players in the league. Which he is not even remotely close to, he will be the 32nd highest paid player. Still too high, but not unusual for a guy that signed a fresh new deal.

- Saying we are “stuck” with that contract is hyperbole and you guys know it. Due to his age and size, there would still be many teams that can convince themselves “I can fix him” even if he flatlines and plays like last season. There were 2 teams willing to trade for Bradley Beal last trade deadline, so spare me the childish hyperbole that nobody would touch Scottie. You’ve all been hardcore fans of the NBA for long enough to know that’s not true.

- At least 25 teams in our position were maxing him. And 100% of the undesirable locations, of which we are one, were maxing him.

- It’s preseason.

- Constantly bitching about him isn’t going to change the situation. And I say this as a guy who’s firmly out on Scottie ever being a franchise player, or even a 2nd banana. But the board is becoming toxic with the Scottie hate and there are shades of the whole FVV tenure seeping in. It’s the same 5-6 guys just constantly trashing him in pretty much every thread. I hated watching FVV with a passion, but the one thing I hated more than that was the constant hate posts littering every damn thread.

[TorontoBarneys]

Worst thing for this franchise was a top 5 pick. We blew up the team for this guy..

This is the biggest lie ever told. Crazy how people believe it to this day.

Masai 100% fumbled the post-Kawhi era.

[mihaic]

As the title states. We've had a lot of these in the past. Most recently there was a contingent wanting Pascal traded to allow Scottie to "take over". When do we start to see the board turn on Scottie to turn the keys over to CMB?

By creating a thread you acknowledge yourself there are issues with Scottie being projected as a franchise player level.

It's ironic lol.

[anotherhomer]

As the title states. We've had a lot of these in the past. Most recently there was a contingent wanting Pascal traded to allow Scottie to "take over". When do we start to see the board turn on Scottie to turn the keys over to CMB?

By creating a thread you acknowledge yourself there are issues with Scottie being projected as a franchise player level.

It's ironic lol.

well.....scottie hasn't turned out to be the player a lot of ppl hoped he would become.
he initially flashed a lot of potential and there was a lot of hope that he would improve his flaky shooting and handling

He's still the same player that he is, a very good role player, but not a max contract.
That said, there's a chance he could turn on a switch and start figuring it out, so it's up to Raps if they want to keep hoping for that or trade him to another team

Btw, i was the guy who suggested trading Scottie for Cade after the first year but got turned down.

[JB7]

So worried about the tax implications, OKC would trade for 70mill in contracts? Raps dont have the cheap young talent or picks if, for some crazy reason, Shai left the best situation in basketball

They would be breaking SGA’s supermax deal into two players (Barnes and IQ). They save the tax payments by cutting IH & Dort after next season, when both players are on team options.

Again, premise is OKC is not willing to pay $184M in tax, and starts to strip down the team eliminating them from being contenders. They compete this season, start the strip down the following season, and after that season SGA asks for a trade.

If you are worried about tax, the last thing you do is trade for 2 overpaid players. If and when OKC feels the tax crunch, you can be damn sure that Shai will not be the one hitting the market. They'll retool by trading one of Chet/Jdub for cheap rookie contracts and picks and decide against trading the MVP/FMVP who brought their first title and is still only 26. This is a fanciful idea

Again, the premise is OKC starts stripping down their team because of the tax implications, and SGA demands a trade out, and specifically to the Raps.

There is no way OKC is trading SGA without a trade demand from him.

[PushDaRock]

lmao what am I reading? SGA being traded for Scottie and IQ?

[LoveMyRaps]

He was actually pretty good yesterday after checking back into the game.

I don't think he attempted a single 3-pointer and stuck to his strengths.

It's infuriating when he starts chucking up 3s right from tip-off.

Make a couple high-probability shots first (i.e., post-up and mid-range) and then work your way to the 3-point line.

I wonder if Darko told him to stop shooting 3s yesterday because he got subbed out rather first in the first quarter.

[JB7]

lmao what am I reading? SGA being traded for Scottie and IQ?

No where am I suggesting this is a trade with equal assets.

Just forecasting where the OKC situation might play out. In that case, Raps would want to retain assets that could be of interest to OKC.

In any trade of a superstar, the team trading the superstar is getting lesser value.

Premise is OKC cannot afford the tax implications of their team. They start to strip down their pieces (IH & Dort) which takes them out of contention in the West.

This, combined with the situation in the US might prompt SGA to demand a trade out, specifically to Toronto (hometown team, outside of the US).

[PushDaRock]

lmao what am I reading? SGA being traded for Scottie and IQ?

No where am I suggesting this is a trade with equal assets.

Just forecasting where the OKC situation might play out. In that case, Raps would want to retain assets that could be of interest to OKC.

In any trade of a superstar, the team trading the superstar is getting lesser value.

Premise is OKC cannot afford the tax implications of their team. They start to strip down their pieces (IH & Dort) which takes them out of contention in the West.

This, combined with the situation in the US might prompt SGA to demand a trade out, specifically to Toronto (hometown team, outside of the US).

lol

[mademan]

They would be breaking SGA’s supermax deal into two players (Barnes and IQ). They save the tax payments by cutting IH & Dort after next season, when both players are on team options.

Again, premise is OKC is not willing to pay $184M in tax, and starts to strip down the team eliminating them from being contenders. They compete this season, start the strip down the following season, and after that season SGA asks for a trade.

If you are worried about tax, the last thing you do is trade for 2 overpaid players. If and when OKC feels the tax crunch, you can be damn sure that Shai will not be the one hitting the market. They'll retool by trading one of Chet/Jdub for cheap rookie contracts and picks and decide against trading the MVP/FMVP who brought their first title and is still only 26. This is a fanciful idea

Again, the premise is OKC starts stripping down their team because of the tax implications, and SGA demands a trade out, and specifically to the Raps.

There is no way OKC is trading SGA without a trade demand from him.

In this scenario, they would trade him to a team that can give them young cheap talent and picks. Toronto doesnt have the young cheap blue chip talent and only has their own picks.

A lot of guys dictate to their teams to get to a location. If that team doesnt have the assets, they dont get the player. Barnes and IQ would have to get a lot better (from overpaid starter level players to near/at star level) for them to be the meat of a Shai trade.

[ForeverTFC]

If not for the extension, are people thinking he'd have gotten the Kuminga/Giddey treatment as an RFA?

I think Brooklyn would have thrown a max at him, and maybe some other teams would have tried to move things around to make an offer.

RFA is weird though, so who knows.

He was ROY and made an all-star team. There's no way he would have gotten that treatment and the Raptors had no chance pulling it off.

Also note that Giddey was already traded and Kuminga is going to get traded. You can't pull that stuff on RFAs you drafted if you want to keep them. Best we could have done is get a slight discount, like the Rockets have been getting from players they actually want to keep.

[HangTime]

He was actually pretty good yesterday after checking back into the game.

I don't think he attempted a single 3-pointer and stuck to his strengths.

It's infuriating when he starts chucking up 3s right from tip-off.

Make a couple high-probability shots first (i.e., post-up and mid-range) and then work your way to the 3-point line.

I wonder if Darko told him to stop shooting 3s yesterday because he got subbed out rather first in the first quarter.

I'd rather him take the 3s early, especially in pre-season.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

We can put him at C and surround him with four shooters. It's a shot he doesn't need to take imo.