Raps vs Wiz Preseason -Sun Oct 12 3PM EST

[YogurtProducer]

I think people's expectations just got too inflated after Barnes was an All Star at an early age. To me, he was never going to be our next Kawhi - his touch from the rim or from range was just nowhere near that and Kawhi's development was a massive outlier in itself.

He has always looked to me like Aaron Gordon with great handles / vision instead of crazy athleticism. I think he is that at his ceiling. I mean, to me, that is one heckuva player to have your team.

But it's no franchise player, and if you're looking for that in him your were always going to be a bit disappointed.

Whether CMB develops so fast as to make Scottie redundant remains to be seen, and we have still have a lot of time to figure it out. I think people should relax and enjoy this upcoming season as Ingram looks like a very exciting player to combine with our guys.

Expectations inflated? He's making the Max. There's a certain standard for Max players.

Who was thinking he was going to be Kawhi?

I think most people were just hoping he would emerge as a #2 maybe #3 option on a championship caliber team.

I don't even think people at this point would be upset if he could get to Aaron Gordon level offensively but he's still far away from that.

Just saying “the max” is also ignoring there is like 5 different maxes based on a variety of factors.

Reality is he’s like the 37th highest paid player in the league. Putting aspirations on him to be a max player in the same light as other true “max guys” (aka - guys not on rookie extensions) was setting yourself up to be disappointed

[PushDaRock]

It may not be a great thing if our highest paid player is probably 5th best option on the court to shoot the ball in a given possession lmao

And ta da I think we finally understand the issue now.

What I think has been vastly overlooked in the wall of hate is that the solution is not that complicated. Scottie must play in the post, he actually commands double teams there and can live off putbacks and stuff. You could see it a bit this last game, his activity made the offense work even when he was missing. That is clearly his role and the coaching staff just have to implement it.

See? the sky might not fall after all!

He does not command double teams in the post, not sure where you're getting that idea from. Teams are happy to live with him taking his fadeaways against 1 on 1 defense.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Everyone would be talking about it if he came into camp lvled up. It's the same Scottie that walked into camp last year imo.

Really, it's on him or the front office at this point.

It's on the front office for giving him that undeserved max contract.

What FO do you think wasn't giving him that contract? He was an All-Star. His comparables for that offseason were Franz and Sengun. Franz got the Max. Sengun got less AAV but with a player option. Scottie was ahead of both of them from an accolades and value stand point. It's just bad luck on our part that he regressed so badly.

They didn't push him hard enough to expose the flaws early. Look at how OKC handled Giddey.

Like, they clearly knew last year...and still loaded up on BI.

[PushDaRock]

I think people's expectations just got too inflated after Barnes was an All Star at an early age. To me, he was never going to be our next Kawhi - his touch from the rim or from range was just nowhere near that and Kawhi's development was a massive outlier in itself.

He has always looked to me like Aaron Gordon with great handles / vision instead of crazy athleticism. I think he is that at his ceiling. I mean, to me, that is one heckuva player to have your team.

But it's no franchise player, and if you're looking for that in him your were always going to be a bit disappointed.

Whether CMB develops so fast as to make Scottie redundant remains to be seen, and we have still have a lot of time to figure it out. I think people should relax and enjoy this upcoming season as Ingram looks like a very exciting player to combine with our guys.

Expectations inflated? He's making the Max. There's a certain standard for Max players.

Who was thinking he was going to be Kawhi?

I think most people were just hoping he would emerge as a #2 maybe #3 option on a championship caliber team.

I don't even think people at this point would be upset if he could get to Aaron Gordon level offensively but he's still far away from that.

Just saying “the max” is also ignoring there is like 5 different maxes based on a variety of factors.

Reality is he’s like the 37th highest paid player in the league. Putting aspirations on him to be a max player in the same light as other true “max guys” (aka - guys not on rookie extensions) was setting yourself up to be disappointed

If you take a look at the rookie max guys, would you take Scottie over any of them?

[Boogie!]

And ta da I think we finally understand the issue now.

What I think has been vastly overlooked in the wall of hate is that the solution is not that complicated. Scottie must play in the post, he actually commands double teams there and can live off putbacks and stuff. You could see it a bit this last game, his activity made the offense work even when he was missing. That is clearly his role and the coaching staff just have to implement it.

See? the sky might not fall after all!

He does not command double teams in the post, not sure where you're getting that idea from. Teams are happy to live with him taking his fadeaways against 1 on 1 defense.

People continue to confuse “hate” with objective criticism. Again the fact that people are finding any which way to make a max player useful is exactly the issue with Scottie Barnes. When you sign a guy to be your franchise player it’s because he’s the one that changes the complexion of the team. We’re now going from building around him, to finding roles for him to be effective. How are people this ignorant/obliviius…

Chris bosh used to get **** on for not being able to carry his teams… the guy was leaps and bounds ahead of Scottie Barnes.

[PushDaRock]

It's on the front office for giving him that undeserved max contract.

What FO do you think wasn't giving him that contract? He was an All-Star. His comparables for that offseason were Franz and Sengun. Franz got the Max. Sengun got less AAV but with a player option. Scottie was ahead of both of them from an accolades and value stand point. It's just bad luck on our part that he regressed so badly.

They didn't push him hard enough to expose the flaws early. Look at how OKC handled Giddey.

Like, they clearly knew last year...and still loaded up on BI.

If we had SGA and Jalen Williams level players at Scottie's position to push him out of his spot, I'm sure we could have done that too.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

What FO do you think wasn't giving him that contract? He was an All-Star. His comparables for that offseason were Franz and Sengun. Franz got the Max. Sengun got less AAV but with a player option. Scottie was ahead of both of them from an accolades and value stand point. It's just bad luck on our part that he regressed so badly.

They didn't push him hard enough to expose the flaws early. Look at how OKC handled Giddey.

Like, they clearly knew last year...and still loaded up on BI.

If we had SGA and Jalen Williams level players at Scottie's position to push him out of his spot, I'm sure we could have done that too.

Remember "Two timelines"? They did it to farm the fanbase for season seat holders.

[PushDaRock]

What I think has been vastly overlooked in the wall of hate is that the solution is not that complicated. Scottie must play in the post, he actually commands double teams there and can live off putbacks and stuff. You could see it a bit this last game, his activity made the offense work even when he was missing. That is clearly his role and the coaching staff just have to implement it.

See? the sky might not fall after all!

He does not command double teams in the post, not sure where you're getting that idea from. Teams are happy to live with him taking his fadeaways against 1 on 1 defense.

People continue to confuse “hate” with objective criticism. Again the fact that people are finding any which way to make a max player useful is exactly the issue with Scottie Barnes. When you sign a guy to be your franchise player it’s because he’s the one that changes the complexion of the team. We’re now going from building around him, to finding roles for him to be effective. How are people this ignorant/obliviius…

Chris bosh used to get **** on for not being able to carry his teams… the guy was leaps and bounds ahead of Scottie Barnes.

I am hoping he continues his pattern this year of alternating between performing below expectations and then surpassing them the next.

[PushDaRock]

They didn't push him hard enough to expose the flaws early. Look at how OKC handled Giddey.

Like, they clearly knew last year...and still loaded up on BI.

If we had SGA and Jalen Williams level players at Scottie's position to push him out of his spot, I'm sure we could have done that too.

Remember "Two timelines"? They did it to farm the fanbase for season seat holders.

If there actually was a mandate from ownership, then what's the point of blaming the FO?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

If we had SGA and Jalen Williams level players at Scottie's position to push him out of his spot, I'm sure we could have done that too.

Remember "Two timelines"? They did it to farm the fanbase for season seat holders.

If there actually was a mandate from ownership, then what's the point of blaming the FO?

They didn't make the hard decisions. They took the easy path, cause it made them more money. It was never the best long term play for the franchise. It just made money from selling season seats.

[PushDaRock]

Remember "Two timelines"? They did it to farm the fanbase for season seat holders.

If there actually was a mandate from ownership, then what's the point of blaming the FO?

They didn't make the hard decisions. They took the easy path, cause it made them more money. It was never the best long term play for the franchise. It just made money from selling season seats.

What "hard" decisions could they make if ownership forced them to field a competitive team out there?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

If there actually was a mandate from ownership, then what's the point of blaming the FO?

They didn't make the hard decisions. They took the easy path, cause it made them more money. It was never the best long term play for the franchise. It just made money from selling season seats.

What "hard" decisions could they make if ownership forced them to field a competitive team out there?

A hard decision, is a new path. Like, if they go into Scottie's second year with just him and OG. It would have been an empty house.

[Buff]

People continue to confuse “hate” with objective criticism. Again the fact that people are finding any which way to make a max player useful is exactly the issue with Scottie Barnes. When you sign a guy to be your franchise player it’s because he’s the one that changes the complexion of the team. We’re now going from building around him, to finding roles for him to be effective. How are people this ignorant/obliviius…

Chris bosh used to get **** on for not being able to carry his teams… the guy was leaps and bounds ahead of Scottie Barnes.

Look, there is one criticism, he can't shoot. But he could never shoot! You'd think 5 years would be enough to drive the point home on that. Re: max, you've been around enough to know that he was going to get it. It is what is, ROY, AllStar (much less than that, often) means max. Hate the game, not the player.

Instead, I propose we talk about how to make the most out of Scottie and that is getting him closer to the basket. Or you can demand that he becomes a shooter and a #1 until you get blue in the face, but that is not going to help anybody.

[PushDaRock]

They didn't make the hard decisions. They took the easy path, cause it made them more money. It was never the best long term play for the franchise. It just made money from selling season seats.

What "hard" decisions could they make if ownership forced them to field a competitive team out there?

A hard decision, is a new path. Like, if they go into Scottie's second year with just him and OG. It would have been an empty house.

What makes you think they would be allowed to do that if you think there was a mandate from ownership to sell tickets?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

What "hard" decisions could they make if ownership forced them to field a competitive team out there?

A hard decision, is a new path. Like, if they go into Scottie's second year with just him and OG. It would have been an empty house.

What makes you think they would be allowed to do that if you think there was a mandate from ownership to sell tickets?

Ultimately, it's a mandate to yourself. The guy who made the decision got removed.

[PushDaRock]

People continue to confuse “hate” with objective criticism. Again the fact that people are finding any which way to make a max player useful is exactly the issue with Scottie Barnes. When you sign a guy to be your franchise player it’s because he’s the one that changes the complexion of the team. We’re now going from building around him, to finding roles for him to be effective. How are people this ignorant/obliviius…

Chris bosh used to get **** on for not being able to carry his teams… the guy was leaps and bounds ahead of Scottie Barnes.

Look, there is one criticism, he can't shoot. But he could never shoot! You'd think 5 years would be enough to drive the point home on that. Re: max, you've been around enough to know that he was going to get it. It is what is, ROY, AllStar (much less than that, often) means max. Hate the game, not the player.

Instead, I propose we talk about how to make the most out of Scottie and that is getting him closer to the basket. Or you can demand that he becomes a shooter and a #1 until you get blue in the face, but that is not going to help anybody.

It was a no brainer max extension at the time. If he maintained that level of play, there would be some disappointment that he didn't take the next step but there wouldn't be this much contention if he didn't regress so badly instead.

[PushDaRock]

A hard decision, is a new path. Like, if they go into Scottie's second year with just him and OG. It would have been an empty house.

What makes you think they would be allowed to do that if you think there was a mandate from ownership to sell tickets?

Ultimately, it's a mandate to yourself. The guy who made the decision got removed.

Interesting, so you think Masai cared more about selling tickets than winning another championship?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

What makes you think they would be allowed to do that if you think there was a mandate from ownership to sell tickets?

Ultimately, it's a mandate to yourself. The guy who made the decision got removed.

Interesting, so you think Masai cared more about selling tickets than winning another championship?

I think he had a bad team and wanted to say "yeah, but the bottom line looks great". When, what he should be saying is "we'll be back to the Finals sooner". He lost sight of the big picture.

[Buff]

It was a no brainer max extension at the time. If he maintained that level of play, there would be some disappointment that he didn't take the next step but there wouldn't be this much contention if he didn't regress so badly instead.

Ok, common ground. My take re: regression... We've been tanking, he was asked to try stuff knowing he would be bad. Other than that we have a couple weird preseason games as sample size. Let's play some games where we are actually trying to win and let's go from there. I do not think Scottie will have a problem replicating past performances as long as they don't have him launching 5 threes a game.

I will be the first one calling him out if he starts sucking and not contributing to wins.

[PushDaRock]

It was a no brainer max extension at the time. If he maintained that level of play, there would be some disappointment that he didn't take the next step but there wouldn't be this much contention if he didn't regress so badly instead.

Ok, common ground. My take re: regression... We've been tanking, he was asked to try stuff knowing he would be bad. Other than that we have a couple weird preseason games as sample size. Let's play some games where we are actually trying to win and let's go from there. I do not think Scottie will have a problem replicating past performances as long as they don't have him launching 5 threes a game.

I will be the first one calling him out if he starts sucking and not contributing to wins.

He had his best year of his career launching 5 threes a game.

If we are giving a pass to our players because we were tanking, then everyone gets one and not just him.