GT: Bucks @ Bulls - 6 CT

[MikeDC]

1. I know everyone loves Ayo but I'm unconvinced that he's super amazing until I see it in real games. Last year in the pre-season he was crushing it too. 22 pts/36, 61.5% 3pt%/36 on his volume. Didn't translate when the game started to matter.

Generally, don't try to pretend that pre-season matters much. Still, it's better to look good than to look bad...

2. Okoro doesn't look good to me. I continue to not see what the Bulls were so enthralled with that they went out and traded for him (when all the rest of the league didn't want him). He routinely gets run off the line and passes up shots. Fouled a ton, the ball in his hands is an adventure in a bad way, and he doesn't seem to do many of the little things that make good defenders. He's an objectively bad rebounder for a guy as strong as he is.

The Bulls are going to have a real dilemma on their hands between not having much margin for error to make their play-in goal and wanting to have Okoro in the lineup to justify trading for him. As a thought experiment, would Pat or even Terry look better if all they had to do was stand in the corner and take wide open shots off Garland/DMitch/Jerome/Merrill etc? Of course. Well, so did Okoro.

3. Tre + Giddey on the floor at the same time is going to be some ugly basketball.

1. I don't think Ayo is super amazing. I do think he fits the fabled fast pace offense the Bulls are "running" and I think he is a solid bench Guard.

Problem is, they've already committed money to two other "solid bench guards" in Jones and Okoro. This seems like poor roster management to me.

2. But he takes charges and we all know that is the most important skill in basketball

It's a nice skill, but Okoro is not particularly notable for it. He's not one of the few guys like Caruso who are picking up another possession every couple games with it. Only got 2 last year.

[sco]

1. I know everyone loves Ayo but I'm unconvinced that he's super amazing until I see it in real games. Last year in the pre-season he was crushing it too. 22 pts/36, 61.5% 3pt%/36 on his volume. Didn't translate when the game started to matter.

Generally, don't try to pretend that pre-season matters much. Still, it's better to look good than to look bad...

2. Okoro doesn't look good to me. I continue to not see what the Bulls were so enthralled with that they went out and traded for him (when all the rest of the league didn't want him). He routinely gets run off the line and passes up shots. Fouled a ton, the ball in his hands is an adventure in a bad way, and he doesn't seem to do many of the little things that make good defenders. He's an objectively bad rebounder for a guy as strong as he is.

The Bulls are going to have a real dilemma on their hands between not having much margin for error to make their play-in goal and wanting to have Okoro in the lineup to justify trading for him. As a thought experiment, would Pat or even Terry look better if all they had to do was stand in the corner and take wide open shots off Garland/DMitch/Jerome/Merrill etc? Of course. Well, so did Okoro.

3. Tre + Giddey on the floor at the same time is going to be some ugly basketball.

1. I don't think Ayo is super amazing. I do think he fits the fabled fast pace offense the Bulls are "running" and I think he is a solid bench Guard.

Problem is, they've already committed money to two other "solid bench guards" in Jones and Okoro. This seems like poor roster management to me.

2. But he takes charges and we all know that is the most important skill in basketball

It's a nice skill, but Okoro is not particularly notable for it. He's not one of the few guys like Caruso who are picking up another possession every couple games with it. Only got 2 last year.

I gotta say that I don't see the attraction on taking charges as a core focus. I feel like the attempts lead to blocking fouls enough to cancel the benefit, not to mention the wear-and-tear impact.

[MikeDC]

1. I don't think Ayo is super amazing. I do think he fits the fabled fast pace offense the Bulls are "running" and I think he is a solid bench Guard.

Problem is, they've already committed money to two other "solid bench guards" in Jones and Okoro. This seems like poor roster management to me.

2. But he takes charges and we all know that is the most important skill in basketball

It's a nice skill, but Okoro is not particularly notable for it. He's not one of the few guys like Caruso who are picking up another possession every couple games with it. Only got 2 last year.

I gotta say that I don't see the attraction on taking charges as a core focus. I feel like the attempts lead to blocking fouls enough to cancel the benefit, not to mention the wear-and-tear impact.

Well Stratmaster is being sarcastic and trolling, and I just pointed out that even the best guys at it are only changing one possession every couple of games, so I don't think anyone has any illusions that it's "a core focus".

Fundamentally though, the guys who are routinely getting charges are definitely adding something. The objections could apply to anything else. Some guys who play too much for steals commit more fouls and that offsets some of the value of steals. But so what. A steal still has value, and to the extent you offset fouls as a negative, you correctly capture that.

Same with charges. They're a positive, but if a guy collects a ton of fouls in collecting a few charges, it's a wash.

[Stratmaster]

1. I don't think Ayo is super amazing. I do think he fits the fabled fast pace offense the Bulls are "running" and I think he is a solid bench Guard.

Problem is, they've already committed money to two other "solid bench guards" in Jones and Okoro. This seems like poor roster management to me.

2. But he takes charges and we all know that is the most important skill in basketball

It's a nice skill, but Okoro is not particularly notable for it. He's not one of the few guys like Caruso who are picking up another possession every couple games with it. Only got 2 last year.

I gotta say that I don't see the attraction on taking charges as a core focus. I feel like the attempts lead to blocking fouls enough to cancel the benefit, not to mention the wear-and-tear impact.

Yep. That's why I used the laughing emoji. The fact that the leadership has it as a ficus is comical. Add to this that I am seeing our guys trying to take charges in preseason games. PRESEASON!

[Stratmaster]

Problem is, they've already committed money to two other "solid bench guards" in Jones and Okoro. This seems like poor roster management to me.



It's a nice skill, but Okoro is not particularly notable for it. He's not one of the few guys like Caruso who are picking up another possession every couple games with it. Only got 2 last year.

I gotta say that I don't see the attraction on taking charges as a core focus. I feel like the attempts lead to blocking fouls enough to cancel the benefit, not to mention the wear-and-tear impact.

Well Stratmaster is being sarcastic and trolling, and I just pointed out that even the best guys at it are only changing one possession every couple of games, so I don't think anyone has any illusions that it's "a core focus".

Fundamentally though, the guys who are routinely getting charges are definitely adding something. The objections could apply to anything else. Some guys who play too much for steals commit more fouls and that offsets some of the value of steals. But so what. A steal still has value, and to the extent you offset fouls as a negative, you correctly capture that.

Same with charges. They're a positive, but if a guy collects a ton of fouls in collecting a few charges, it's a wash.

Well yeah. I was being sarcastic. I'm not sure that was trolling though. That kind of hurts my feelings.

You do realize that Billy and AK made it a point to mention taking charges as a focus though, right? they went so far as to quote the stats that the team was last in taking charges. At which point I did the math to show that even going from last to first accounted for something like 1 more charge taken every 3 games...so 1 possession every 3 games without taking into account the extra blocking fouls.

[Stratmaster]

1. I know everyone loves Ayo but I'm unconvinced that he's super amazing until I see it in real games. Last year in the pre-season he was crushing it too. 22 pts/36, 61.5% 3pt%/36 on his volume. Didn't translate when the game started to matter.

Generally, don't try to pretend that pre-season matters much. Still, it's better to look good than to look bad...

2. Okoro doesn't look good to me. I continue to not see what the Bulls were so enthralled with that they went out and traded for him (when all the rest of the league didn't want him). He routinely gets run off the line and passes up shots. Fouled a ton, the ball in his hands is an adventure in a bad way, and he doesn't seem to do many of the little things that make good defenders. He's an objectively bad rebounder for a guy as strong as he is.

The Bulls are going to have a real dilemma on their hands between not having much margin for error to make their play-in goal and wanting to have Okoro in the lineup to justify trading for him. As a thought experiment, would Pat or even Terry look better if all they had to do was stand in the corner and take wide open shots off Garland/DMitch/Jerome/Merrill etc? Of course. Well, so did Okoro.

3. Tre + Giddey on the floor at the same time is going to be some ugly basketball.

1. I don't think Ayo is super amazing. I do think he fits the fabled fast pace offense the Bulls are "running" and I think he is a solid bench Guard.

Problem is, they've already committed money to two other "solid bench guards" in Jones and Okoro. This seems like poor roster management to me.

2. But he takes charges and we all know that is the most important skill in basketball

It's a nice skill, but Okoro is not particularly notable for it. He's not one of the few guys like Caruso who are picking up another possession every couple games with it. Only got 2 last year.

Well, I believe Ayo is better than either of those other 2 Guards. So yes, the front office continues to be clueless in who they spend their money on and how much. However, you know that Billy is going to find all kinds of situations where he thinks that 3 Guards plus Giddey is the right lineup. "Cos we got to run faster. And shoot quicker." I can smell the Coby, Ayo, Okoro, Giddey, Matas "small ball" in the air.

[MikeDC]

You do realize that Billy and AK made it a point to mention taking charges as a focus though, right?

No. I hardly ever find it worth paying attention to what NBA people say they're going to do. Especially at the beginning when everyone comes into camp saying what they think people want to hear.

Well, I believe Ayo is better than either of those other 2 Guards. So yes, the front office continues to be clueless in who they spend their money on and how much. However, you know that Billy is going to find all kinds of situations where he thinks that 3 Guards plus Giddey is the right lineup. "Cos we got to run faster. And shoot quicker." I can smell the Coby, Ayo, Okoro, Giddey, Matas "small ball" in the air.

I doubt there will be much of it based on prior years. The last two years they only played about 4% of their minutes without a center (Vuc/Collins/Smith/Drummond/Sanogo). > 95% of the time, they had a true center on the court.

• 24/25 - 177 mins ~ 4% of total minutes
• 23/24 - 174 mins ~ 4% of total minutes

[Stratmaster]

You do realize that Billy and AK made it a point to mention taking charges as a focus though, right?

No. I hardly ever find it worth paying attention to what NBA people say they're going to do. Especially at the beginning when everyone comes into camp saying what they think people want to hear.

Well, I believe Ayo is better than either of those other 2 Guards. So yes, the front office continues to be clueless in who they spend their money on and how much. However, you know that Billy is going to find all kinds of situations where he thinks that 3 Guards plus Giddey is the right lineup. "Cos we got to run faster. And shoot quicker." I can smell the Coby, Ayo, Okoro, Giddey, Matas "small ball" in the air.

I doubt there will be much of it based on prior years. The last two years they only played about 4% of their minutes without a center (Vuc/Collins/Smith/Drummond/Sanogo). > 95% of the time, they had a true center on the court.

• 24/25 - 177 mins ~ 4% of total minutes
• 23/24 - 174 mins ~ 4% of total minutes

Well. OK. If the coach tells you his focus but you don't believe him...I guess we are all just guessing. Other than the fact that I have watched about 10 minutes (game time) of the pre-season and seen the Bulls attempt to take 4 charges in that time.

On the lineups, I will start using green font more. But I did look up the Bulls lineups, and if you slotted that 177 minutes in with the 5 man pairings a generic "no center" would qualify as the lineup with the 2nd most minutes last season. I know it doesn't work quite that way but 177 isn't insignificant.

[2weekswithpay]

I gotta say that I don't see the attraction on taking charges as a core focus. I feel like the attempts lead to blocking fouls enough to cancel the benefit, not to mention the wear-and-tear impact.

The Bulls were the 2nd worst team in opponent turnover percentage. They don't get extra possessions, and I don't think anybody in the rotation is proficient at forcing TOs. This appears to be an attempt to squeeze out a bit more defensive value from this roster.

Billy said taking charges is a focus, but he isn't encouraging taking charges over vertical contests. He wants them to take charges at the appropriate times.