Free Noa.

[dougthonus]

Yep. It's a lot easer to find a guy who will run through walls than it is to find somebody with the talent to be an NBA baller. The first attribute is a (necessary) commodity, while the second is the true rarity.

One of the things that strikes me as true, is that people often tell tales of what they think makes them special that are wildly different than what actually makes them special. The more special the player, the more people focus on crap that doesn't matter. Like I'm sure LeBron James works hard and has great basketball IQ, but put him in a 6'4 body with average athleticism, and keep everything else the same, and he's just a guy. Put someone with average BBIQ and average NBA work ethic in LeBron's body, he's still probably a HOFer.

[nomorezorro]

ehh i think there's a case to be made that average intelligence/work ethic lebron is like...jeff green? and lebron's intelligence/work ethic in an average 6'4" athlete is, i dunno, derrick white

as a mediocre band once said, there's advantages to both

[nomorezorro]

i guess i should have read the rest of the thread before blindly replying to the first post i saw on the last page. generally speaking, yeah i agree that worth ethic discussions as an outside observer are totally worthless

i do think there are people who benefit from having an exceptional work ethic even relative to the average nba player (and people whose lack of work ethic is to their detriment), but you're basically never going to have any meaningful insight into who those exceptional cases are from the outside, because most everyone is at least putting in a solid amount of effort into their craft to be able to perform at the professional level. noa working on his game during training camp certainly doesn't seem to qualify as noteworthy

[dougthonus]

ehh i think there's a case to be made that average intelligence/work ethic lebron is like...jeff green? and lebron's intelligence/work ethic in an average 6'4" athlete is, i dunno, derrick white

as a mediocre band once said, there's advantages to both

I think you're right about the Derrick White comp. You're way off on the Jeff Green comp. Jeff Green's an inch shorter, 20 lbs less muscle, no where near as explosive, nor where near the fine motor control that ultimately is what controls all the high end skill stuff.

But a lot of it depends, do you think LeBron James has all his skills because he outworked everyone or do you think he has them due to a genetic advantage that allowed him to develop them. I don't think LeBron James at the same age was putting in a 500 more hours than the next prospect.

[econprof]

ehh i think there's a case to be made that average intelligence/work ethic lebron is like...jeff green? and lebron's intelligence/work ethic in an average 6'4" athlete is, i dunno, derrick white

as a mediocre band once said, there's advantages to both

I think you're right about the Derrick White comp. You're way off on the Jeff Green comp. Jeff Green's an inch shorter, 20 lbs less muscle, no where near as explosive, nor where near the fine motor control that ultimately is what controls all the high end skill stuff.

But a lot of it depends, do you think LeBron James has all his skills because he outworked everyone or do you think he has them due to a genetic advantage that allowed him to develop them. I don't think LeBron James at the same age was putting in a 500 more hours than the next prospect.

This reminds me of all the times some announcer says that such and such player is always the first to arrive for practice and the last to leave. I think there must be half a dozen of those on every team.

[meekrab]

How do you know anything about his moxy and work ethic? Every player gets hyped up as a hard worker. Pat and Dalen are supposedly hard workers. Could've fooled me.

In the end, it is likely the vast majority of NBA players are hard workers and work ethic probably isn't that big a differentiator because they're already at 95th percentile plus in terms of effort. You are competing to be a top 100 person in the world at something, it's probably generally the case that everyone in the running to be a top 100 in the world at something is likely already putting in the effort, and the gaps in this area probably aren't nearly as significant as the physical gaps (whether they be raw athleticism that allows you to move faster / jump higher or fine motor control that allows you to shoot amazingly consistently).

Yeah the guys who don't work hard but have talent generally flame out of the league; Beasley, Blatche, etc.

[kodo]

How do you know anything about his moxy and work ethic? Every player gets hyped up as a hard worker. Pat and Dalen are supposedly hard workers. Could've fooled me.

In the end, it is likely the vast majority of NBA players are hard workers and work ethic probably isn't that big a differentiator because they're already at 95th percentile plus in terms of effort. You are competing to be a top 100 person in the world at something, it's probably generally the case that everyone in the running to be a top 100 in the world at something is likely already putting in the effort, and the gaps in this area probably aren't nearly as significant as the physical gaps (whether they be raw athleticism that allows you to move faster / jump higher or fine motor control that allows you to shoot amazingly consistently).

Yeah the guys who don't work hard but have talent generally flame out of the league; Beasley, Blatche, etc.

Agreed the league has a higher floor for skills now so physically exceptional but low IQ / low skill guys aren't getting automatic starter jobs, eg Josh Smith. Would guys like Hakim Warrick even be drafted 1st round in 2025? And no way someone like Stro Swift goes #2 ever again.
EDIT: After I wrote that I realized Bagley was drafted #2 not that long ago, so maybe GMs will still be burning draft picks on tall track athletes forever.

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[sco]

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I can't decide if his long legs are an advantage or disadvantage. His strides are huge and he gets down the floor and too the rim surprisingly fast, but he seems to have trouble with lateral movement.

I think a bunch of g-league work, especially his 3 ball (where's Peter Parker when we need him?) and post moves, would be beneficial this year.

[WindyCityBorn]

I thought Matas Buzelis should've played more games with the Windy City Bulls for the first half of last season. I think the same should be done with Noa Essengue. Let him run with the Windy City Bulls, and after the trade deadline let him start alongside Matas. We have to see the combination of Giddey, Buzelis, and Essengue in the starting lineup before the season is over.

Why do we have to see that?

[Red Larrivee]

I thought Matas Buzelis should've played more games with the Windy City Bulls for the first half of last season. I think the same should be done with Noa Essengue. Let him run with the Windy City Bulls, and after the trade deadline let him start alongside Matas. We have to see the combination of Giddey, Buzelis, and Essengue in the starting lineup before the season is over.

Why do we have to see that?

Yeah, I'd be pleasantly surprised if Essengue is starting at any point this season without injuries being the primary reason.

I'd like to see him figure out a clear NBA role, but that doesn't mean starter minutes.

[Jcool0]

Keep in mind with the G league... Marko Simonovic averaged 16.5 ppg, 9.9 rebounds and 2.1 assists there and he wasn't an NBA level player. Its nice to get minutes if they aren't playing here but not sure how much you are learning or getting better.

[DuckIII]

I thought Matas Buzelis should've played more games with the Windy City Bulls for the first half of last season. I think the same should be done with Noa Essengue. Let him run with the Windy City Bulls, and after the trade deadline let him start alongside Matas. We have to see the combination of Giddey, Buzelis, and Essengue in the starting lineup before the season is over.

Why do we have to see that?

Yeah, I'd be pleasantly surprised if Essengue is starting at any point this season without injuries being the primary reason.

I'd like to see him figure out a clear NBA role, but that doesn't mean starter minutes.

And now with Giddey under contract with Matas and Noa on their rookie deals there is no urgency because we don't have any upcoming deadlines to evaluate them.

[MrSparkle]

He looks a bit awkward in the long legs and footwork, which is my 1 main concern. I would bet 75 cents (out of a $100) on him becoming a perennial all-star. (Which imo is very rare and exclusive… so I don’t mean 75c as an insult… ya know, like top-30 player most your whole career… I'd put $15 on Matas though).

I see a Siakam angle. If he settles into PF or spot-minute C (with more weight), I see star potential. But as a hybrid wing, I don’t see it.

My preference is for him to just play 9th man, instead of injury reserve. Get this fella a low-minute role. I tend to agree that G-League is a waste of time.

[sco]

Keep in mind with the G league... Marko Simonovic averaged 16.5 ppg, 9.9 rebounds and 2.1 assists there and he wasn't an NBA level player. Its nice to get minutes if they aren't playing here but not sure how much you are learning or getting better.

You're right. That said, I see the G-league as a place for guys like Noa to work on specific skills (in a similar system) against lesser, but still high level, competition.

[Jcool0]

Keep in mind with the G league... Marko Simonovic averaged 16.5 ppg, 9.9 rebounds and 2.1 assists there and he wasn't an NBA level player. Its nice to get minutes if they aren't playing here but not sure how much you are learning or getting better.

You're right. That said, I see the G-league as a place for guys like Noa to work on specific skills (in a similar system) against lesser, but still high level, competition.

I don't really see the need for lottery picks to be in the G League. I don't think its all that good for development.

[sco]

Keep in mind with the G league... Marko Simonovic averaged 16.5 ppg, 9.9 rebounds and 2.1 assists there and he wasn't an NBA level player. Its nice to get minutes if they aren't playing here but not sure how much you are learning or getting better.

You're right. That said, I see the G-league as a place for guys like Noa to work on specific skills (in a similar system) against lesser, but still high level, competition.

I don't really see the need for lottery picks to be in the G League. I don't think its all that good for development.

I mean he's barely a lottery pick and he's super raw skillwise, so I do think it will be more beneficial than just 4-8 minutes initially, although it can be a mix of NBA and Gleague.

[meekrab]

Keep in mind with the G league... Marko Simonovic averaged 16.5 ppg, 9.9 rebounds and 2.1 assists there and he wasn't an NBA level player. Its nice to get minutes if they aren't playing here but not sure how much you are learning or getting better.

Antonio Blakeney put up 32 ppg 6.7 rebounds and 4 assists in the G league as a rookie and wasn't even good enough to stick in the Chinese league, he's playing in the 2nd division of Europe now. Volume stats aren't what you learn in the G league, it's more about (hopefully) learning the same system your NBA team runs and giving you game reps in the specific things your coaches want you to work on.

[GuardianEnzo]

I think there are tangible benefits to playing against guys playing to pay their rent and trying to impress NBA coaches and scouts. I like Noa's potential but he's incredibly young and raw, and he won't play much this season for Billy - that's just reality. 20-25 G-League games with major minutes will do him some good.

[rosenthall]

He looks a bit awkward in the long legs and footwork, which is my 1 main concern. I would bet 75 cents (out of a $100) on him becoming a perennial all-star. (Which imo is very rare and exclusive… so I don’t mean 75c as an insult… ya know, like top-30 player most your whole career… maybe $3 on Matas).

I see a Siakam angle. If he settles into PF or spot-minute C (with more weight), I see star potential. But as a hybrid wing, I don’t see it.

My preference is for him to just play 9th man, instead of injury reserve. Get this fella a low-minute role. I tend to agree that G-League is a waste of time.

One reason why I was not super high on him before the draft is that his gait is very awkward for a high ceiling player. I think it puts a ceiling on his offensive game because it's hard to imagine him developing the fine motor control to have above average ball skills for his size. But one thing I've noticed is that he's very good at getting to spots before other players and then turning that into a positive disruption, on both offense and defense. A little Mirotic-like when I think about it.

However, I'm still having a hard time pegging what his ceiling is. Despite his young age, I feel better about his floor than his ceiling. He seems well suited to be a high impact defensive role player. Not sure if I see him becoming more than that.