Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[ConSarnit]

No way. He has far too much floor impact from his defense and transition play. The offense isn't great but he's still a strong floor impact player.

He was the best player on the team today and a big reason why we won. He's worth his deal and would get it again. This is also preseason.

Casual fans look at scoring and think some players are great. Barnes is the opposite of empty calories.

Agreed. I don't think he's anywhere close to "toxic asset" status, even if his contract is a bit of an overpay. There are more max contracts than all-NBA-level superstars, so some of them won't be "worth it," but if you want them on your team, that's the price.

He might not be one of those "top 25 trade assets in the league" anymore, but a lot of guys lose that status as soon as they sign an extension (as if the extension would not become an issue for a new team). It's the player version of draft picks vs. players in the league who are actually good.

I recognize there are practical reasons for this. If your player on a rookie contract is any good you're basically stealing vs having to (over)pay for their production on an extension. It also changes what teams would have to do to accomodate a contract of that size. Rookie contract Scottie Barnes? Every team in the league shuffles some contracts around to make room. $40M contract Scottie Barnes? You need to make some real decisions to accomodate that salary slot, and the number of teams willing to do so may be lower. I still think that number of teams might be fairly high, but we have a season to play and a new cap environment that is still in flux.

I don't put stock into awards anymore. It's more of a popularity contest than actual skills and dominance.

Barnes is worth his contract as he is, and I think he's already all defense level. He's dealing with a knee injury and should dominate in the paint once it's better. I noticed he isn't dunking even in warm ups. The way the fanbase believes he sat out and faked an injury is ridiculous. Barnes isn't that type of person or player.

I think eventually him and CMB put together a top 5 defense and transition offense. Their scoring will gradually come along as they get playoff experience.

Where is the evidence to support this? We were 6th percentile in transition scoring last year. The year before that we were 55th percentile and that was with Siakam (a very good transition player). Barnes individual transition numbers have always been bad.

Earlier you posted that Barnes isn’t empty calories. His scoring last year was literally some of the most empty calories scoring there is. 19ppg on 53% TS is terrible.

You guys keep citing things that you think Barnes will do well yet there is zero evidence to back up your assertions. I get why we gave him his contract but he’s not worth $40m per year right now.

[PushDaRock]

If not for the extension, are people thinking he'd have gotten the Kuminga/Giddey treatment as an RFA?

I think Brooklyn would have thrown a max at him, and maybe some other teams would have tried to move things around to make an offer.

RFA is weird though, so who knows.

He was ROY and made an all-star team. There's no way he would have gotten that treatment and the Raptors had no chance pulling it off.

Also note that Giddey was already traded and Kuminga is going to get traded. You can't pull that stuff on RFAs you drafted if you want to keep them. Best we could have done is get a slight discount, like the Rockets have been getting from players they actually want to keep.

I would agree that it's not realistic that he ever makes it to RFA and the max extension at the time was a given but it's also hard to imagine he gets fully maxed out if he was an RFA this offseason after the year he just had.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The key would have been getting him off the books before the extension. Then we wouldn't have to deal with all this money.

[ronaldo922]

Yes it is.

BUT

you need a starter in return. 3 and D but there arent many and not cheap either. Everyone else is seeing this Scottie. I dont even know if theres one team thinking, we can turn him into a star

[JB7]

If you are worried about tax, the last thing you do is trade for 2 overpaid players. If and when OKC feels the tax crunch, you can be damn sure that Shai will not be the one hitting the market. They'll retool by trading one of Chet/Jdub for cheap rookie contracts and picks and decide against trading the MVP/FMVP who brought their first title and is still only 26. This is a fanciful idea

Again, the premise is OKC starts stripping down their team because of the tax implications, and SGA demands a trade out, and specifically to the Raps.

There is no way OKC is trading SGA without a trade demand from him.

In this scenario, they would trade him to a team that can give them young cheap talent and picks. Toronto doesnt have the young cheap blue chip talent and only has their own picks.

A lot of guys dictate to their teams to get to a location. If that team doesnt have the assets, they dont get the player. Barnes and IQ would have to get a lot better (from overpaid starter level players to near/at star level) for them to be the meat of a Shai trade.

Barnes and IQ are actually younger than SGA. I would think if SGA asks out, they would want talent that could help them continue to compete.

And don't tell me the NBA isn't noticing what is happening in the US.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6713950/2025/10/13/milwaukee-bucks-doc-rivers-denounces-ice-chicago/

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Jinx master has done Scottie a favour.

All-Star season coming up for Scottie B

My sympathetic neurone activated and I was crying Del Abbot tears after reading the OP's post.

[Thaddy]

Agreed. I don't think he's anywhere close to "toxic asset" status, even if his contract is a bit of an overpay. There are more max contracts than all-NBA-level superstars, so some of them won't be "worth it," but if you want them on your team, that's the price.

He might not be one of those "top 25 trade assets in the league" anymore, but a lot of guys lose that status as soon as they sign an extension (as if the extension would not become an issue for a new team). It's the player version of draft picks vs. players in the league who are actually good.

I recognize there are practical reasons for this. If your player on a rookie contract is any good you're basically stealing vs having to (over)pay for their production on an extension. It also changes what teams would have to do to accomodate a contract of that size. Rookie contract Scottie Barnes? Every team in the league shuffles some contracts around to make room. $40M contract Scottie Barnes? You need to make some real decisions to accomodate that salary slot, and the number of teams willing to do so may be lower. I still think that number of teams might be fairly high, but we have a season to play and a new cap environment that is still in flux.

I don't put stock into awards anymore. It's more of a popularity contest than actual skills and dominance.

Barnes is worth his contract as he is, and I think he's already all defense level. He's dealing with a knee injury and should dominate in the paint once it's better. I noticed he isn't dunking even in warm ups. The way the fanbase believes he sat out and faked an injury is ridiculous. Barnes isn't that type of person or player.

I think eventually him and CMB put together a top 5 defense and transition offense. Their scoring will gradually come along as they get playoff experience.

Where is the evidence to support this? We were 6th percentile in transition scoring last year. The year before that we were 55th percentile and that was with Siakam (a very good transition player). Barnes individual transition numbers have always been bad.

Earlier you posted that Barnes isn’t empty calories. His scoring last year was literally some of the most empty calories scoring there is. 19ppg on 53% TS is terrible.

You guys keep citing things that you think Barnes will do well yet there is zero evidence to back up your assertions. I get why we gave him his contract but he’s not worth $40m per year right now.

You’re oversimplifying it. The team being 6th percentile in transition says more about the system and pace than it does about Barnes. Toronto barely ran last year and when they did it was mostly him pushing the ball. He was top five among forwards in grab and go plays and still put up around 1.07 points per transition possession, which is slightly above average. His assist rate on those plays was in the mid 80s percentile. That is not a player who is bad in transition.

The empty calories thing does not hold up either. Nineteen point nine points, eight rebounds, six assists, one and a half blocks, and over one steal per game at 22 years old is rare. His BPM was 3.9 and his defensive EPM was top ten among forwards. That is all impact, not hollow production.

The true shooting number is not ideal but context matters. He was initiating offense on a roster with poor spacing and no reliable secondary creator. You are treating him like a finisher when in reality he was asked to run the entire offense.

The contract argument is also weak. Only a few players his age have ever put up those numbers and they all turned into franchise level players. You are not paying him for what he is today. You are paying for what he is clearly on track to become.

[CazOnReal]

Preseason really does a good job of letting you know whose opinions you can ignore for when the season starts proper.

[DreamTeam09]

Preseason really does a good job of letting you know whose opinions you can ignore for when the season starts proper.

Amen to that brother

[LoveMyRaps]

I like Scottie a lot but I'm a tad bit concerned about the fit with Ingram.

Seeing him excel last game from the same spots Ingram likes to get to, makes me think there will be too much of an overlap.
Neither one of them is a consistent 3pt shooter either so ideally you want them to stick to mid-range.

Although Ingram has shot well from outside in preseason so maybe that carries over to the regular season and we can put him in more catch & shoot positions, allowing Scottie to operate from mid-range.

It'll be interesting to see how the two work.

On the other hand, RJ and Ingram seem to have instant chemistry - probably because RJ's greatest weakness is Ingram's greatest strength, and vice versa.

[anotherhomer]

I like Scottie a lot but I'm a tad bit concerned about the fit with Ingram.

Seeing him excel last game from the same spots Ingram likes to get to, makes me think there will be too much of an overlap.
Neither one of them is a consistent 3pt shooter either so ideally you want them to stick to mid-range.

Although Ingram has shot well from outside in preseason so maybe that carries over to the regular season and we can put him in more catch & shoot positions, allowing Scottie to operate from mid-range.

It'll be interesting to see how the two work.

On the other hand, RJ and Ingram seem to have instant chemistry - probably because RJ's greatest weakness is Ingram's greatest strength, and vice versa.

that's a good point raise....with Darko, Webster having a lot to prove, they won't hestitate to dump Barnes to put together a competitive team

[dTox]

If he shows up looking like the same player, yet again, then yes, and you do it before the trade deadline.

[dballislife]

it sucks that approaching 5 years, scottie is forced into being a jump shooter on offense because he cant consistently dribble by anyone, doesn't post up, not good at cutting to basket, doesn't draw a lot of fouls, and of course can't spread the floor as off ball guy and hit the 3

[Troubadour]

In retrospect, the time to trade Scottie Barnes was in the summer of 2022 and for Kevin Durant.

A lineup of VanVleet / Anunoby / Durant / Siakam would have been an instant contender in the East.

[LoveMyRaps]

it sucks that approaching 5 years, scottie is forced into being a jump shooter on offense because he cant consistently dribble by anyone, doesn't post up, not good at cutting to basket, doesn't draw a lot of fouls, and of course can't spread the floor as off ball guy and hit the 3

And that's the frustrating part with Scottie. He's capable of doing those things (that I bolded) but he doesn't. Those should be his strengths.

For example:

Read on Twitter

In the video above, he has a 40 year old Middleton (sorry Kris) in front of him but he chooses to stop on a dime and settle for a short jumper.
TAKE IT TO HIS CHEST, BE MORE AGGRESSIVE AND ASSERTIVE. Middleton isn't even attempting to take a charge in this possession. He's literally at a massive disadvantage but Scottie bails him out instead of finishing at the rim or drawing a foul.

Scottie still doesn't realize how strong he is. Or chances are he does, but he's just a low IQ offensive player who chooses to play like the guard despite lacking the skillset needed to be one.

Annoys me when I see him floating around the 3pt line. He should be much closer to the paint.
Coaching staff needs to hold him accountable for his poor shot selection and inability to operate like a 3/4 on the offensive end.

[Thaddy]

it sucks that approaching 5 years, scottie is forced into being a jump shooter on offense because he cant consistently dribble by anyone, doesn't post up, not good at cutting to basket, doesn't draw a lot of fouls, and of course can't spread the floor as off ball guy and hit the 3

And that's the frustrating part with Scottie. He's capable of doing those things (that I bolded) but he doesn't. Those should be his strengths.

For example:

Read on Twitter

In the video above, he has a 40 year old Middleton (sorry Kris) in front of him but he chooses to stop on a dime and settle for a short jumper.
TAKE IT TO HIS CHEST, BE MORE AGGRESSIVE AND ASSERTIVE. Middleton isn't even attempting to take a charge in this possession. He's literally at a massive disadvantage but Scottie bails him out instead of finishing at the rim or drawing a foul.

Scottie still doesn't realize how strong he is. Or chances are he does, but he's just a low IQ offensive player who chooses to play like the guard despite lacking the skillset needed to be one.

Annoys me when I see him floating around the 3pt line. He should be much closer to the paint.
Coaching staff needs to hold him accountable for his poor shot selection and inability to operate like a 3/4 on the offensive end.

Scottie has a knee injury he sat out a game for it and isn't even dunking in warm ups. I would give it more time. Preseason is a good time to get his mid range and shooting going. I'm all for that but don't drive hard and risk getting injured or aggravating an existing injury. He is doing pretty good despite that too, he's having a clear impact if you look at BPM.

[basketballto]

In retrospect, the time to trade Scottie Barnes was in the summer of 2022 and for Kevin Durant.

A lineup of VanVleet / Anunoby / Durant / Siakam would have been an instant contender in the East.

That short term move would have worked out terribly that playoff season then later in the off season where you end up paying 40 million for VanVleet and OG followed by a 5 year Siakam max. You have no depth paying the second cliff tax and getting bumped out of the playoffs first or second round. This year would have been bleak.

Glad we moved on from that core. Scotty is putting up stats no one else is. True Shooting is 52% slight below average but everything else is above average. Not all stars need to be one of the best shooters in the league to be a star. If he keeps being a quad-triple double machine he is doing more for this team to win than if he was putting up 27/3/3 with an above average TS%. This team doesn't need someone to take 10 more shots a game and score 10% more often than he is because we have better people already shooting 10% higher which ends up being 2 shots a game (4p). Scotty blocking two baskets a game already evens that advantage.

[Thaddy]

In retrospect, the time to trade Scottie Barnes was in the summer of 2022 and for Kevin Durant.

A lineup of VanVleet / Anunoby / Durant / Siakam would have been an instant contender in the East.

That short term move would have worked out terribly that playoff season then later in the off season where you end up paying 40 million for VanVleet and OG followed by a 5 year Siakam max. You have no depth paying the second cliff tax and getting bumped out of the playoffs first or second round. This year would have been bleak.

Glad we moved on from that core. Scotty is putting up stats no one else is. True Shooting is 52% slight below average but everything else is above average. Not all stars need to be one of the best shooters in the league to be a star. If he keeps being a quad-triple double machine he is doing more for this team to win than if he was putting up 27/3/3 with an above average TS%. This team doesn't need someone to take 10 more shots a game and score 10% more often than he is because we have better people already shooting 10% higher which ends up being 2 shots a game (4p). Scotty blocking two baskets a game already evens that advantage.

They should have sold much sooner than they did. If we got an all star level return for Fred, as we should have. Then we'd have enough to bring in a star. I'd guess we'd turn him into at least a prospect and a good first round pick.

Scottie is good and still our best player. He's grab and go, versatile defense, and developing a bag at a steady rate. Preseason is the time to try things and catch rhythm. During the season he'll likely be more aggressive for contact.

He will put up 18/8/7/1.5/1.5 and be All Defense level on 57% TS. That's my prediction.

[CPT]

In retrospect, the time to trade Scottie Barnes was in the summer of 2022 and for Kevin Durant.

A lineup of VanVleet / Anunoby / Durant / Siakam would have been an instant contender in the East.

I’m guessing this opinion won’t be popular, but it seems pretty clearly correct.

We would have been winning 50+ games a year, maybe some pretty deep playoff runs, outside chance at a championship. The horror.

You could even argue we’d still be in a better position right now, or at least in a better position to pivot to an actual rebuild.

[tsherkin]

The empty calories thing does not hold up either. Nineteen point nine points, eight rebounds, six assists, one and a half blocks, and over one steal per game at 22 years old is rare. His BPM was 3.9 and his defensive EPM was top ten among forwards. That is all impact, not hollow production.

He was the worst scorer in the league posting 19+ ppg last year. Don't waste key strokes trying to defend that. He was putrid. Absolutely awful. He was a terrible, TERRIBLE scorer last year. That's not something you're going to wash over with raw box score numbers.

The true shooting number is not ideal but context matters. He was initiating offense on a roster with poor spacing and no reliable secondary creator. You are treating him like a finisher when in reality he was asked to run the entire offense.

No. Context doesn't matter in this case. He sucked flaming ass body shots of terribleness as a scorer last year. He should suck less ass this year with better spacing, but at no point in his NBA career, or before, has he ever been a good scorer. He was never projected to be a good scorer. And he isn't. This is pretty straightforward and obvious.

He has other strengths and value, but scoring is absolutely the worst aspect of his game. He is not a guy you want shooting in any sort of meaningful volume. This is his SECOND season at such profoundly incompetent scoring efficiency, and the first one was as a tertiary type option. He just lacks too many tools and skills to ever be a scorer we want to lean on.

So, that's a bunch of angry vitriol, mostly in response to a really, really weak attempt to justify how incredibly dogcrap Scottie has been as a scorer (and without the excuse of significant volume responsibility, no less).

The flip side of this is that his defense is a strong point. He's a good rebounder. He moves the ball well in transition, which is nice. He is good at keying the break with defensive rebounding and pushing the ball. Those are traits we can leverage, so long as we have him give it up once we get into the halfcourt environment. That's a player we can work with, someone we can integrate into our broader plan, we just have to stop looking at him as a competent option in the halfcourt.