Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[gaoj2]

You can compare bradon ingram and barnes’ game. Barnes is draymond green at best.

[Wise80]

At least the pg talks have finally ended lol.

This board is going to get really interesting if he and raptors start off slow.

[Appostis]

At least the pg talks have finally ended lol.

This board is going to get really interesting if he and raptors start off slow.

Some people been chomping at the bit to tear down this team.

[CazOnReal]

[CazOnReal]

At least the pg talks have finally ended lol.

This board is going to get really interesting if he and raptors start off slow.

If by "interesting" you mean "insufferably reactionary" then yes.

Like do none of you remember when Siakam - a more seasoned NBA player - struggled in the 2023/24 season adapting to a new role? It's not easy and it doesn't help when 3 of your 4 years in the league have been marked by an understated level of turnover for the roster.

Scottie and Poeltl being the most tenured players (Jakob if you count non-consecutive, Scottie if you only count consecutive) is a testament to how frustrating the teambuilding has been for the past two years in terms of both complimentary talent & asset use. And I say this as someone who's high on guys like Dick & Walter's ability to space the floor next to Scottie.

[Clay Davis]

Lol Scottie averaging 6 points on 20% shooting for the preseason. The rizz the rizz the rizz my man scottular what are YOU DOING scottular!!

[Thaddy]

Lol Scottie averaging 6 points on 20% shooting for the preseason. The rizz the rizz the rizz my man scottular what are YOU DOING scottular!!

He had good rebounding, defensive, and passing games though. He also has a supposed knee injury. I would give him 20 games next season to show improvement before going after him.

There's a lot of non box score factors too. Barnes is good at finding guys to get momentum going in transition. He provides elite help defense, secures the rebound, and moves the ball forward. This is usually to RJ or IQ.

If we got Barnes an elite transition big and wing scorers he would rack up a lot more assists. I still see him as a triple double threat in his prime.

[6ixpessant]

Scottie doesn't seem to have the same energy that he did year 1 and 2. Body language is different, and he's not improving in areas that any player can improve on. It's a bummer.

I think we have to start asking questions about his work ethic.

Look at the things he’s improved: defense and passing. I’d argue those are largely “experience” based skills. You get better at those simply by playing more and adapting to the league.

Now consider “gym rat” skills. Has he gotten more athletic? Nope. Improved his shooting? Only between 10-14 feet. Post up skills? Nope. Ball handling? Nope. Does the guy have any type of “go to” move? Nope. If he’s in the gym where are the results?

I hate thinking "Well, he got paid".....

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

It doesn’t help that he’s also immature. Hate his body language cause it looks like he just isn’t serious enough.

Oh mann, I would kill to see a Scottie for Giannis trade. After watching preseason and seeing what this squad could do.. and especially what Ingram could do, you gotta think that a Giannis makes this team a contender.

I hope once the bucks are stinking it up and are bottom feeders (highly likely), that they bite on our trade package: Scottie, Dick, Walter, picks. Still leaves us with:

IQ/Shead/Hepburn
RJ/Battle/Martin
Ingram/Ochai/AJ Lawson
Giannis/CMB/Mogbo
Poeltl/Mamu

(deeeeep team)

[6ixpessant]

It doesn’t help that he’s also immature. Hate his body language, he just isn’t serious enough.

Man, I would kill to see a Scottie for Giannis trade. After watching preseason and seeing what this squad could do.. and especially what Ingram could do, you gotta think that a Giannis makes this team a contender.

I hope once the bucks are stinking it up and are bottom feeders (highly likely), that they bite on our trade package: Scottie, Dick, Walter, picks. Still leaves us with:

IQ/Shead/Hepburn
RJ/Battle/Martin
Ingram/Ochai/AJ Lawson
Giannis/CMB/Mogbo
Poeltl/Mamu

(deeeeep team)

I loved his energy and smile when he got to Toronto, and the first couple of seasons.

It's kind of like Vlad, he got a bit frustrating with his conditioning and whatnot, and he 100% turned it all around and improved in every area of his game. The longball isn't the be all end all. Now look at him, the smiles are even bigger and he is currently (Post season) the best player in baseball.

[Shakril]

Its not the performance that raises concern, but the lack of improvement.

[Los_29]

It’s just preseason but wow, he’s been bad. People will say he can be a great player on a championship team. But can he? His motor is inconsistent, he can’t shoot and he’s horribly inefficient despite being a higher volume player. I’m starting to get worried.

[Raptors_Dynasty]

Some of you still blaming his lack of progress on roster construction

We’re also not getting Giannis for him. The only “star” we’d likely get back are the likes of Zach Lavine. Someone who’s overpaid and seen as a losing player.

[Anticon]

Did the Raptors jumping positions in the draft in 2021 set the franchise back by 5 years? Seems possible if Barnes continues on this route.

Bargnani part 2 scenario.

[Troubadour]

Did the Raptors jumping positions in the draft in 2021 set the franchise back by 5 years? Seems possible if Barnes continues on this route.

Bargnani part 2 scenario.

Looking back on it, the ideal situation would have been to keep Norman Powell and select Sengun.

VanVleet / Powell / Anunoby / Siakam / Sengun would be a very good team.

[Appostis]

Some of you still blaming his lack of progress on roster construction

We’re also not getting Giannis for him. The only “star” we’d likely get back are the likes of Zach Lavine. Someone who’s overpaid and seen as a losing player.

Yeah because who would ever think the "team" would impact in a "team" sport.

Crazy idea.

[lolwut]

Some of you still blaming his lack of progress on roster construction

We’re also not getting Giannis for him. The only “star” we’d likely get back are the likes of Zach Lavine. Someone who’s overpaid and seen as a losing player.

Yeah because who would ever think the "team" would impact in a "team" sport.

Crazy idea.

I think the issue is that he's shown little progress in areas that are independent from team success, such as jumpshooting. He's tossing up complete bricks on wide open shots, and there's nothing more his teammates can do to help him with those.

[tsherkin]

Some of you still blaming his lack of progress on roster construction

We’re also not getting Giannis for him. The only “star” we’d likely get back are the likes of Zach Lavine. Someone who’s overpaid and seen as a losing player.

Yeah because who would ever think the "team" would impact in a "team" sport.

Crazy idea.

It is a little crazy to suggest that team context is what's separating Scottie from being a competent scorer. He could look better than he does in a very specifically-tailored role, I'm sure, but it's been clear since before he even hit the NBA that it was never going to be a strength of his. Beyond that, he plays pretty well, which is also pretty consistent. His D, his rebounding, his passing at size? Those are all known pre-draft quantities, and he is reasonably consistent with those. But he can't shoot, he isn't an elite athlete and he doesn't have an elite handle, so there are major limitations to what he can do as a scorer, and those will always be heavy limitations on his game.

The problem is more the role and expectations the franchise is putting on him than anything else. He is being given too many shots and too much responsibility to create. He doesn't have the tools to make that a viable strategy.

[tsherkin]

Its not the performance that raises concern, but the lack of improvement.

This escapes the point.

You can't judge lack of improvement based on the preseason. There's no real connection between performance in the preseason and performance in the RS.

Now, with Barnes, the real issue is expecting him to magically become the thing we've been stupidly trying to force him to become. It's extremely idiotic of the franchise to keep forcing the issue with him in a scorer's role, and that's more on management/coaching than it is on Scottie.

[PushDaRock]

Its not the performance that raises concern, but the lack of improvement.

This escapes the point.

You can't judge lack of improvement based on the preseason. There's no real connection between performance in the preseason and performance in the RS.

Now, with Barnes, the real issue is expecting him to magically become the thing we've been stupidly trying to force him to become. It's extremely idiotic of the franchise to keep forcing the issue with him in a scorer's role, and that's more on management/coaching than it is on Scottie.

Well, we already took steps to relieve him of that when we acquired Ingram. But, it's not going to happen overnight where he goes from a 20 point scorer to role player who barely scores in an instant.

It wasn't totally stupid to see what he could do as a scorer. He put up a 24/10/6 line on very efficient shooting in the month of December before we traded OG and Siakam. There was a lot of reason for optimism at the time and hope that he unlocked a new level and was ascending to stardom. With hindsight now, it looks like outlier 3 point shooting but that's not something we could have known at the time.

For myself personally, my concerns started when his scoring volume went down instead of up after Siakam left. He was the clear #1 option and either deferring or unable to do more and that was a big red flag for me.