Scottie Barnes is a SPUR. [needs 3rd team]

[One_and_Done]

How about a 3 teamer for Wagner from Orlando - who is the PERFECT running mate with Wemby.

To Orlando: Barnes and Castle (need to be Harper?)

To Raptors: Vassell and Spurs picks

To Spurs: Wagner

Spread around some filler.

Magic have a roster to support Barnes and his skill set plus get a legit PG prospect - finally.

Spurs would certainly like Wagner, assuming he can regain his shooting form, but there's no need for them to hand over Vassell and 'picks' to Toronto in this deal. Nor would they be including Harper. If the right level of picks can be agreed on though, Spurs would for sure be interested.

[MessiahUjiri]

How about a 3 teamer for Wagner from Orlando - who is the PERFECT running mate with Wemby.

To Orlando: Barnes and Castle (need to be Harper?)

To Raptors: Vassell and Spurs picks

To Spurs: Wagner

Spread around some filler.

Magic have a roster to support Barnes and his skill set plus get a legit PG prospect - finally.

Spurs would certainly like Wagner, assuming he can regain his shooting form, but there's no need for them to hand over Vassell and 'picks' to Toronto in this deal. Nor would they be including Harper. If the right level of picks can be agreed on though, Spurs would for sure be interested.

Lol Magic are not getting Scottie Barnes and Stephon Castle for Wagner, unless they’re sending out one of their blue chip prospects.

[One_and_Done]

How about a 3 teamer for Wagner from Orlando - who is the PERFECT running mate with Wemby.

To Orlando: Barnes and Castle (need to be Harper?)

To Raptors: Vassell and Spurs picks

To Spurs: Wagner

Spread around some filler.

Magic have a roster to support Barnes and his skill set plus get a legit PG prospect - finally.

Spurs would certainly like Wagner, assuming he can regain his shooting form, but there's no need for them to hand over Vassell and 'picks' to Toronto in this deal. Nor would they be including Harper. If the right level of picks can be agreed on though, Spurs would for sure be interested.

Lol Magic are not getting Scottie Barnes and Stephon Castle for Wagner, unless they’re sending out one of their blue chip prospects.

Yeh I think there's unlikely to be a trade the Magic like, given they're trying to win now. Toronto is pointless in the deal anyway. You just take them out, and see if the right price can be found (assumedly Castle plus a careful selection of picks, probably too careful for the Magic to agree).

The Spurs would ve better off seeing if they can acquire Lauri for cheap (some cheaper contracts, plus a modest 1st or two). The issue there is that Ainge is the GM of Utah, and has a history of overpricing all his players until they have no value left.

[SkyHook]

A lot these threads seem to come from the perspective of "Who has weaknesses that Wemby can cover?" rather than "Who helps Wemby and the others play better?" Victor is a DPOY frontrunner who's also a dynamic shooter. That goes really well with the limited PFs folks want the team to acquire. Those guys are flawed stars who need a good complimentary piece to truly be effective.

Victor is NOT that piece. He is the star, and instead of getting the benefit of a front-court running mate who can take some of the defensive and spacing burden off him, folks want Wemby to take a back seat so that those flawed players can continue to play their non-winning basketball. The same pieces that would help Sabonis, or Randle or Barnes play well would also help Wemby. He'd find far more success with a three-and-D center next to him than an on-ball scoring PF.

I don't know that I agree with this entirely because Wemby can play away from the basket offensively and the Spurs shouldn't want him banging with other big men down low 82 games a season. Also, the list of 3 and D centers is basically Myles Turner. If you expand it to include PFs, you can add JJJ.

JJJ would be the ideal fit next to Wemby tbh. If people are trying to find an ideal PF pairing for Wemby, they should look in that direction.

The Spurs are currently in a transition period, where some of the young guys are stuck behind vets, but the future Spurs starting line-up looks to be mostly set. In 2 years I'd expect the starters include Wemby, Harper, C.Bryant, plus 2 others. One of those others could be Castle/Fox, another could theoretically be Vassell or Sochan.

In short, the Spurs don't need any more 5s, 4s who can't shoot/play D, or guards. Their potential need is a starter who can play D and shoot 3s, ideally a JJJ type, but they'd settle for someone like OG or Jaylen Brown. They really don't need anything else. These trades that constantly seek to dump flawed players like Sabonis, S.Barnes, etc, are non-starters.

Disagree. JJJ is a weak rebounder, the area where Wemby needs the most help, imo.

[One_and_Done]

I don't know that I agree with this entirely because Wemby can play away from the basket offensively and the Spurs shouldn't want him banging with other big men down low 82 games a season. Also, the list of 3 and D centers is basically Myles Turner. If you expand it to include PFs, you can add JJJ.

JJJ would be the ideal fit next to Wemby tbh. If people are trying to find an ideal PF pairing for Wemby, they should look in that direction.

The Spurs are currently in a transition period, where some of the young guys are stuck behind vets, but the future Spurs starting line-up looks to be mostly set. In 2 years I'd expect the starters include Wemby, Harper, C.Bryant, plus 2 others. One of those others could be Castle/Fox, another could theoretically be Vassell or Sochan.

In short, the Spurs don't need any more 5s, 4s who can't shoot/play D, or guards. Their potential need is a starter who can play D and shoot 3s, ideally a JJJ type, but they'd settle for someone like OG or Jaylen Brown. They really don't need anything else. These trades that constantly seek to dump flawed players like Sabonis, S.Barnes, etc, are non-starters.

Disagree. JJJ is a weak rebounder, the area where Wemby needs the most help, imo.

The Spurs will have plenty of size for rebounding with Wemby, C.Bryant, and their oversized backcourt. They would rather the DPOY 3pt shooting perimeter mobile JJJ to go with that, as opposed to a 'rebounder'. I'm not sure I even agree Wemby has a rebounding problem. The guy will probably average 10-12 rpg this season in limited minutes.

[jredsaz]

This guy is the worst man hahahaha. Mods are asleep at the wheel as always.

You may (as many of us do) disagree with his opinion, but I don't see any reason for mods to get involved. Disagreements are part of constructive dialogue

Name the recent champ where Barnes would clearly have been a starter (playing as well as he did last year)? In the last decade the one where you'd have a pretty good case is the Bucks, who were riding the last gasps of PJ Tucker... but even there, Barnes would be a bad offensive fit, so I think there'd be an argument for starting Tucker for defense and having Barnes as the scorer off the bench.

I don’t get this kind of analysis. Barnes could have played on plenty of those teams. He’s a very good, young but overpaid player. I think the value is fine but I don’t like it for the Spurs nearly as much after the Fox trade. Bryant is hypothetically the better fit now but it’s not like he will be a good three point shooter anytime soon.

[One_and_Done]

You may (as many of us do) disagree with his opinion, but I don't see any reason for mods to get involved. Disagreements are part of constructive dialogue

Name the recent champ where Barnes would clearly have been a starter (playing as well as he did last year)? In the last decade the one where you'd have a pretty good case is the Bucks, who were riding the last gasps of PJ Tucker... but even there, Barnes would be a bad offensive fit, so I think there'd be an argument for starting Tucker for defense and having Barnes as the scorer off the bench.

I don’t get this kind of analysis. Barnes could have played on plenty of those teams. He’s a very good, young but overpaid player. I think the value is fine but I don’t like it for the Spurs nearly as much after the Fox trade. Bryant is hypothetically the better fit now but it’s not like he will be a good three point shooter anytime soon.

He'll likely be a better 3pt shooter than Barnes as soon as this season.

[SkyHook]

JJJ would be the ideal fit next to Wemby tbh. If people are trying to find an ideal PF pairing for Wemby, they should look in that direction.

The Spurs are currently in a transition period, where some of the young guys are stuck behind vets, but the future Spurs starting line-up looks to be mostly set. In 2 years I'd expect the starters include Wemby, Harper, C.Bryant, plus 2 others. One of those others could be Castle/Fox, another could theoretically be Vassell or Sochan.

In short, the Spurs don't need any more 5s, 4s who can't shoot/play D, or guards. Their potential need is a starter who can play D and shoot 3s, ideally a JJJ type, but they'd settle for someone like OG or Jaylen Brown. They really don't need anything else. These trades that constantly seek to dump flawed players like Sabonis, S.Barnes, etc, are non-starters.

Disagree. JJJ is a weak rebounder, the area where Wemby needs the most help, imo.

The Spurs will have plenty of size for rebounding with Wemby, C.Bryant, and their oversized backcourt. They would rather the DPOY 3pt shooting perimeter mobile JJJ to go with that, as opposed to a 'rebounder'. I'm not sure I even agree Wemby has a rebounding problem. The guy will probably average 10-12 rpg this season in limited minutes.

He's weak on the offensive glass and I don't see strong rebounding around him.

[One_and_Done]

Disagree. JJJ is a weak rebounder, the area where Wemby needs the most help, imo.

The Spurs will have plenty of size for rebounding with Wemby, C.Bryant, and their oversized backcourt. They would rather the DPOY 3pt shooting perimeter mobile JJJ to go with that, as opposed to a 'rebounder'. I'm not sure I even agree Wemby has a rebounding problem. The guy will probably average 10-12 rpg this season in limited minutes.

He's weak on the offensive glass and I don't see strong rebounding around him.

I mean, he's played 1.5 seasons. I'd assume he'll improve, he's certainly showing signs of that in the preseason. Assuming he's surrounded by JJJ, Harper, C.Bryant, and Fox/Castle long term, that's alot of size. Even if it was true they weren't the best at Orbs, would it matter much? Not every team is going to be good at everything. I feel confident they'll rebound better than the 24 Celtics.

[Wolveswin]

Spurs would certainly like Wagner, assuming he can regain his shooting form, but there's no need for them to hand over Vassell and 'picks' to Toronto in this deal. Nor would they be including Harper. If the right level of picks can be agreed on though, Spurs would for sure be interested.

Lol Magic are not getting Scottie Barnes and Stephon Castle for Wagner, unless they’re sending out one of their blue chip prospects.

Yeh I think there's unlikely to be a trade the Magic like, given they're trying to win now. Toronto is pointless in the deal anyway. You just take them out, and see if the right price can be found (assumedly Castle plus a careful selection of picks, probably too careful for the Magic to agree).

The Spurs would ve better off seeing if they can acquire Lauri for cheap (some cheaper contracts, plus a modest 1st or two). The issue there is that Ainge is the GM of Utah, and has a history of overpricing all his players until they have no value left.

Magic aren’t trading Wagner for Castle and picks. That is just silly.

Magic have assets to send out in a deal that gives them Castle + Barnes (like Suggs+).

Wager > Barnes

[One_and_Done]

Lol Magic are not getting Scottie Barnes and Stephon Castle for Wagner, unless they’re sending out one of their blue chip prospects.

Yeh I think there's unlikely to be a trade the Magic like, given they're trying to win now. Toronto is pointless in the deal anyway. You just take them out, and see if the right price can be found (assumedly Castle plus a careful selection of picks, probably too careful for the Magic to agree).

The Spurs would ve better off seeing if they can acquire Lauri for cheap (some cheaper contracts, plus a modest 1st or two). The issue there is that Ainge is the GM of Utah, and has a history of overpricing all his players until they have no value left.

Magic aren’t trading Wagner for Castle and picks. That is just silly.

Magic have assets to send out in a deal that gives them Castle + Barnes (like Suggs+).

Wager > Barnes

Like I said, a deal for Wagner seems unlikely. I don't see how the Suggs deal you propose happens; if he's healthy, the Magic will keep him. If he's not, he has minimal value. Also how does that deal even work? The Spurs and Raps can't both get Suggs.

[jredsaz]

Name the recent champ where Barnes would clearly have been a starter (playing as well as he did last year)? In the last decade the one where you'd have a pretty good case is the Bucks, who were riding the last gasps of PJ Tucker... but even there, Barnes would be a bad offensive fit, so I think there'd be an argument for starting Tucker for defense and having Barnes as the scorer off the bench.

I don’t get this kind of analysis. Barnes could have played on plenty of those teams. He’s a very good, young but overpaid player. I think the value is fine but I don’t like it for the Spurs nearly as much after the Fox trade. Bryant is hypothetically the better fit now but it’s not like he will be a good three point shooter anytime soon.

He'll likely be a better 3pt shooter than Barnes as soon as this season.

Maybe but Bryant’s won’t be as good at basketball as Barnes. Like I said, I think the value is fine but I don’t like it for the Spurs after adding Fox.

[One_and_Done]

I don’t get this kind of analysis. Barnes could have played on plenty of those teams. He’s a very good, young but overpaid player. I think the value is fine but I don’t like it for the Spurs nearly as much after the Fox trade. Bryant is hypothetically the better fit now but it’s not like he will be a good three point shooter anytime soon.

He'll likely be a better 3pt shooter than Barnes as soon as this season.

Maybe but Bryant’s won’t be as good at basketball as Barnes. Like I said, I think the value is fine but I don’t like it for the Spurs after adding Fox.

Since Bryant projects to potentially have a starting role on a contender, and Barnes doesn't, I'm not sure why I'd be moving the former and his cheap contract for the latter on a max.

[Chinook]

I don't know that I agree with this entirely because Wemby can play away from the basket offensively and the Spurs shouldn't want him banging with other big men down low 82 games a season. Also, the list of 3 and D centers is basically Myles Turner. If you expand it to include PFs, you can add JJJ.

Almost every star can play away from the basket. The value of a three-and-D center is that it they provide spacing for others to operate, and Wemby would ultimately appreciate that space as much as guys like Giannis or Siakam do. What he wouldn't appreciate is having to play all the interior defense and being forced to stay on the perimeter so a guy like Sabonis or Randle can get touches inside.

It's weird that you argue you don't agree with me then say that the Spurs shouldn't want Wemby "banging with other big men down low". That's a big reason why he'd benefit from a role-playing center rather than star-PF. The Spurs correctly made it a priority to bring in competent centers of different levels and skill-sets. They have many different kinds of centers and power-forwards they can try next to him to see what works the best going forward. They have their star front-court player, and they have a few good candidates for star perimeter players.

Making any of the trades people want to foist on them doesn't make any sense right now. If they end up deciding to make a deal later, it's clear they will be able to offer good packages that preserve their right to determine which of their prospects pan out. No, they wouldn't be able to trade for Giannis or another superstar, but doing that should be the furthest thing from their minds at the moment.

[jredsaz]

He'll likely be a better 3pt shooter than Barnes as soon as this season.

Maybe but Bryant’s won’t be as good at basketball as Barnes. Like I said, I think the value is fine but I don’t like it for the Spurs after adding Fox.

Since Bryant projects to potentially have a starting role on a contender, and Barnes doesn't, I'm not sure why I'd be moving the former and his cheap contract for the latter on a max.

Because Barnes is the significantly better player. But like I said, I wouldn’t make the trade at this point with the Spurs current roster. The whole projection thing isn’t a great argument either for a 23 year old who consistently shoots 75%+ from the line.

[SkyHook]

The Spurs will have plenty of size for rebounding with Wemby, C.Bryant, and their oversized backcourt. They would rather the DPOY 3pt shooting perimeter mobile JJJ to go with that, as opposed to a 'rebounder'. I'm not sure I even agree Wemby has a rebounding problem. The guy will probably average 10-12 rpg this season in limited minutes.

He's weak on the offensive glass and I don't see strong rebounding around him.

I mean, he's played 1.5 seasons. I'd assume he'll improve, he's certainly showing signs of that in the preseason. Assuming he's surrounded by JJJ, Harper, C.Bryant, and Fox/Castle long term, that's alot of size. Even if it was true they weren't the best at Orbs, would it matter much? Not every team is going to be good at everything. I feel confident they'll rebound better than the 24 Celtics.

I don't know that it's a matter of improvement as much as positioning. Per my previous post...
Imo, the biggest need is for an absolute hoss on the boards beside him, particularly on the offensive end where Wemby is weakest (ranked 23rd in oREB% among qualifying centers). This weakness is primarily due to his positioning rather than his ability as he's taking an increasing number of his shots from behind the arc and one of the lowest percentage of shots at the rim that I can remember seeing from a 7 footer. Rebounding acquisition and/or development should be a higher priority for the Spurs than outside shooting, bulk scoring, or defensive prowess.
I just think that it's an incredible struggle for a weak rebounding team to go deep into the playoffs. There are exceptions, as you noted, but they're rare.

[Thaddy]

I'm not doing that as a Raptors fan. Barnes is an elite defensive player that still projects to be a core piece of an elite transition offense. He has strong BPM for a reason.

The offense will gradually come and it is. He's adding more tools and he will break out this year. He's too big, strong, athletic, defensively and play making wise and gifted. The shot and creation ability will come gradually and it isn't really necessary.

[One_and_Done]

Maybe but Bryant’s won’t be as good at basketball as Barnes. Like I said, I think the value is fine but I don’t like it for the Spurs after adding Fox.

Since Bryant projects to potentially have a starting role on a contender, and Barnes doesn't, I'm not sure why I'd be moving the former and his cheap contract for the latter on a max.

Because Barnes is the significantly better player. But like I said, I wouldn’t make the trade at this point with the Spurs current roster. The whole projection thing isn’t a great argument either for a 23 year old who consistently shoots 75%+ from the line.

Today was a typical Barnes performance: 7 points on 3-13 shooting (0-2 from 3 of course), and his team lost. This is his 5th year in the league. The guy just isn't that good, and he's on a max contract. I wouldn't want him on my team for free if I was trying to contend. Why should the Spurs trade either Castle or Bryant for him as well? Those guys could turn out better than him, and they're on cheap contracts for years into the future.

Not only could either of them turn out better than him, but I feel pretty confident at least one of them will. The Raptors can keep Barnes, or try to move him to another perpetual play-in team.

[One_and_Done]

He's weak on the offensive glass and I don't see strong rebounding around him.

I mean, he's played 1.5 seasons. I'd assume he'll improve, he's certainly showing signs of that in the preseason. Assuming he's surrounded by JJJ, Harper, C.Bryant, and Fox/Castle long term, that's alot of size. Even if it was true they weren't the best at Orbs, would it matter much? Not every team is going to be good at everything. I feel confident they'll rebound better than the 24 Celtics.

I don't know that it's a matter of improvement as much as positioning. Per my previous post...
Imo, the biggest need is for an absolute hoss on the boards beside him, particularly on the offensive end where Wemby is weakest (ranked 23rd in oREB% among qualifying centers). This weakness is primarily due to his positioning rather than his ability as he's taking an increasing number of his shots from behind the arc and one of the lowest percentage of shots at the rim that I can remember seeing from a 7 footer. Rebounding acquisition and/or development should be a higher priority for the Spurs than outside shooting, bulk scoring, or defensive prowess.
I just think that it's an incredible struggle for a weak rebounding team to go deep into the playoffs. There are exceptions, as you noted, but they're rare.

Yeh I just don't agree that rebounding is a need for the Spurs. If they need that at the expense of shooting they'll just start Sochan, without needing to trade away anything. Sochan can play D too.

[Wolveswin]

Yeh I think there's unlikely to be a trade the Magic like, given they're trying to win now. Toronto is pointless in the deal anyway. You just take them out, and see if the right price can be found (assumedly Castle plus a careful selection of picks, probably too careful for the Magic to agree).

The Spurs would ve better off seeing if they can acquire Lauri for cheap (some cheaper contracts, plus a modest 1st or two). The issue there is that Ainge is the GM of Utah, and has a history of overpricing all his players until they have no value left.

Magic aren’t trading Wagner for Castle and picks. That is just silly.

Magic have assets to send out in a deal that gives them Castle + Barnes (like Suggs+).

Wager > Barnes

Like I said, a deal for Wagner seems unlikely. I don't see how the Suggs deal you propose happens; if he's healthy, the Magic will keep him. If he's not, he has minimal value. Also how does that deal even work? The Spurs and Raps can't both get Suggs.

Come on, that is simple…

To Magic: Castle/Barnes/Vassell

To Raps: Suggs/Black or Jett (choose 1)/Hawks 1st (via Spurs)

To Spurs: Wagner/Agbaji

Spurs turn Castle+ into perfect running mate Wagner. Wagner can play SF or PF depending on how Spurs want to set their lineup.

Raps get Suggs+ for Barnes. Suggs D would fit perfect in that lineup while opening PF slot (needed per OP).

Magic downgrade from Wagner to Barnes but have the lineup around Barnes to support his skillset. Magic also get Castle as legit PG prospect to set lineup.