Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[Grew]

I wish he would get back to doing what made him a good NBA player as a rookie. Offensive rebounding and scoring around the hoop. He was all about little psudo hook shots as a rookie, now all he wants to do is fade aways like he's Kobe. He's not good enough at his perimeter skills to abandon his foundation. I can't believe he's in a pro setting making all that coin and they allow him to continue in this direction.

The worst part of it all for me is that he has never looked physically stronger than as a rookie. It really shows he either stopped pushing himself once he made it, or he's been declining physically since the age of 22.

[Mack11]

Some of you still blaming his lack of progress on roster construction

We’re also not getting Giannis for him. The only “star” we’d likely get back are the likes of Zach Lavine. Someone who’s overpaid and seen as a losing player.

[Agimat]

The discussion around trading Rj wouldn't be as prevalent if Barnes had become a legitimate first option. Trading Rj might be addressing the wrong issue when this guy named "Scottie Barnes" still hasn't checked off what he needs to do for this team to move forward. I feel like his performance fluctuates game to game depending on his mood/emotions.

[TheGeneral99]

Bargnani was the ROY runner-up, and was 3rd in Center balloting for an All-star team in his 3 or 4th season.

Bargs had high potential and alot of people on this board thought he could be a star in the early years. He regressed. Let's hope Barnes improves. The comparison isn't that crazy IMO.

I wouldn't read too much into pre-season numbers.

Bargnani was always atrocious defensively and a horrendously poor rebounder for his size. Yeah he was okay his first 2 years because he was used more as a role player behind bigs like Bosh and Rasho.

When Bosh left, his scoring output went up simply due to higher volume, but he had almost zero impact on winning. We won 20, 22 and 23 games with Bargnani at the helm in a weak Eastern Conference between 2010 and 2012. You look at every advanced stat during that period and Bargnani was terrible. It was actually Amir Johnson and Jose that led the team in WS, VORP and RPM in those years. Even in terms of scoring Bargnani was overrated. He was skilled, but didn't use his body properly, wasn't aggressive, and didn't shoot that well from deep for a guy known as a "shooter."

His best statistical season was in 2011 where he averaged 21ppg and 5rpg on 44%fg and 35%3fg...not very good for a 7 footer that is so bad defensively.

That doesn't sound familiar? Looked good as a role player playing off stars, then when he was given the keys , not so much... not agressive, doesn't use his body or strength correctly... themore im reading what you're saying the more in the back of my mind im saying "uh oh..."

Noone is saying they play similar or have similar strengths and weaknesses. You're focusing on the wrong things.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Big difference between Bargnani and Barnes - Barnes is a positive contributor even if he's not shooting well, he has very positive advanced stats in WS, VORP, and RPM. Barnes right now is probably the ideal 3rd option on a championship contender whereas Bargnani never was near being a true 3rd option on a championship contender.

I look at it like this: In his prime Bargnani was ideally a good 6th man that could give you some decent offense, but he was not a positive contributor that you could rely on for heavy minutes. However, Barnes even with his limitations is a borderline all-star and legitimate top 30-40 player in the league.

The fear with Barnes is whether he can reach the next level offensively, but I don't think anyone here doubts that he is a very, very good player. He's a great finisher around the basket, he's great defensively, very versatile, a good passer, a great rebounder for his height, and a net positive all around. The question is whether Barnes will be an Iggy type of player, or can he progress to the next level and become a legit top 15-20 player.

[tsherkin]

Well, we already took steps to relieve him of that when we acquired Ingram. But, it's not going to happen overnight where he goes from a 20 point scorer to role player who barely scores in an instant.

Sure, and we still need to see if there are sets where he can thrive with more space and others setting him up, right?

It wasn't totally stupid to see what he could do as a scorer. He put up a 24/10/6 line on very efficient shooting in the month of December before we traded OG and Siakam. There was a lot of reason for optimism at the time and hope that he unlocked a new level and was ascending to stardom. With hindsight now, it looks like outlier 3 point shooting but that's not something we could have known at the time.

... Sure, but he was also shooting over 40% from three on nearly 7 3PA/g, and that isn't going to be a thing. That much is clear. He was also shooting 59.7% inside the arc, and he hasn't managed 54.5% 2FG on a season yet, so that also seems like a significant outlier, you know?

But yes, we have to see what happens when he's playing regularly with Ingram and Quick before we make specific judgement on his place in our offense. He definitely isn't held back primarily because of the team's context, but there are ways to help him look a little better which we could be doing.

Things would be completely different if the organization accepted who he was and presented him accordingly. Instead there was this whole agenda To build around him and get rid of everyone that got in the way of that, including the actual star at the time, siakam. Kind of makes the resentment for Scottie and the organization stronger.

Yeah, it wasn't ideal. I understand they were probably trying to contract manage a little with Siakam, but the idea of clearing offense for Scottie was always fairly stupid, given his pre-draft profile and skillset/tools, etc. A little baffling to me. Now it's on the team to try and figure out how to best position him as an asset, either for value here or in trade.

[TheGeneral99]

It's funny to think Bargs actually put up like 21.4 ppg while shooting respectably from three.

To be honest, Bargnani was not a very good 3 point shooter. Yes he shot 35% in 2011 which is decent, but he shot 30% in 2012 and 2013 from deep. The issue is that Bargnani didn't have much in his game apart from shooting, so hovering around 30-35% is not good for a player like that. He also didn't get to to the free throw line that much despite being a 7 footer. Compare that to a guy like Dirk who was a great finisher, a mid-range assassin, and he regularly shot in the high 30s and low 40s from 3, while also getting to the line 7-8 times a game. Dirk was a legit borderline 50/40/90 player for several seasons.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

It's funny to think Bargs actually put up like 21.4 ppg while shooting respectably from three.

To be honest, Bargnani was not a very good 3 point shooter. Yes he shot 35% in 2011 which is decent, but he shot 30% in 2012 and 2013 from deep. The issue is that Bargnani didn't have much in his game apart from shooting, so hovering around 30-35% is not good for a player like that. He also didn't get to to the free throw line that much despite being a 7 footer. Compare that to a guy like Dirk who was a great finisher, a mid-range assassin, and he regularly shot in the high 30s and low 40s from 3, while also getting to the line 7-8 times a game.

He was horrible for a number of reasons, but 35% from a seven footer is great numbers.

[TheGeneral99]

It's funny to think Bargs actually put up like 21.4 ppg while shooting respectably from three.

To be honest, Bargnani was not a very good 3 point shooter. Yes he shot 35% in 2011 which is decent, but he shot 30% in 2012 and 2013 from deep. The issue is that Bargnani didn't have much in his game apart from shooting, so hovering around 30-35% is not good for a player like that. He also didn't get to to the free throw line that much despite being a 7 footer. Compare that to a guy like Dirk who was a great finisher, a mid-range assassin, and he regularly shot in the high 30s and low 40s from 3, while also getting to the line 7-8 times a game.

He was horrible for a number of reasons, but 35% from a seven footer is great numbers.

35% isn't great from a player who is supposed to be a shooting specialist that cannot do much else...and it's not like he was that efficient from inside the arc as well. Heck, Barnes shot 34% from 3 in 2024 despite being a relatively poor shooter.

In the same period, Mehmet Okur was a 7 foot shooter who shot 38%, 39%, 45%, and 39% from 3 in his prime between 2007-2010.

Rasheed Wallace was 6'10 and had similar 3 point percentages to Bargs, but he was extremely efficient inside, and was one of the best defenders in the league.

Even JV had similar 3 point percentages to Bargs (less volume), but at least he was a beast in the paint with extremely efficient numbers and an excellent rebounder.

[Tacoma]

Certainly the ROY award will help offset the impact of paying 50 million a year and rebuilding the roster around a guy shooting 20%.

The point is that they made a commitment to a flawed player and may have lost half a decade of team building as a result.

Bargnani was the ROY runner-up, and was 3rd in Center balloting for an All-star team in his 3 or 4th season.

Bargs had high potential and alot of people on this board thought he could be a star in the early years. He regressed. Let's hope Barnes improves. The comparison isn't that crazy IMO.

I wouldn't read too much into pre-season numbers.

Bargnani was always atrocious defensively and a horrendously poor rebounder for his size. Yeah he was okay his first 2 years because he was used more as a role player behind bigs like Bosh and Rasho.

When Bosh left, his scoring output went up simply due to higher volume, but he had almost zero impact on winning. We won 20, 22 and 23 games with Bargnani at the helm in a weak Eastern Conference between 2010 and 2012. You look at every advanced stat during that period and Bargnani was terrible. It was actually Amir Johnson and Jose that led the team in WS, VORP and RPM in those years. Even in terms of scoring Bargnani was overrated. He was skilled, but didn't use his body properly, wasn't aggressive, and didn't shoot that well from deep for a guy known as a "shooter."

His best statistical season was in 2011 where he averaged 21ppg and 5rpg on 44%fg and 35%3fg...not very good for a 7 footer that is so bad defensively.

Yes, Bargs' scoring went up after Bosh left and similarly Barnes' scoring went up after Siakam left. More eerie similarities...

• Both contributes primarily on one side - Bargs on offense and Barnes on defense - while being a liability on other side;
• Both were drafted higher than expected and the guy who drafted him (Colangelo for Bargs & Masai for Barnes) anointed him a franchise level player and traded away the lead guy (Bosh & Siakam) to put them (Bargs & Barnes) at the helm that ended up backfiring;
• Both can be consider "enigmas" in a sense that Bargs is a C/PF relied up for rebounding but very bad at it, and Barnes is a SF/PF relied upon for shooting but very bad at it;
• Both were awarded a contract extension that was the largest of its kind at the time for the Raptors, and then debated as to its worthiness.

To be clear, Barnes is still overall the better player but it does seem like an uncanny deja vu. If you were to merge the 2 enigmas, Bargs on offense and Barnes on defense, you'd have a pretty good player.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

To be honest, Bargnani was not a very good 3 point shooter. Yes he shot 35% in 2011 which is decent, but he shot 30% in 2012 and 2013 from deep. The issue is that Bargnani didn't have much in his game apart from shooting, so hovering around 30-35% is not good for a player like that. He also didn't get to to the free throw line that much despite being a 7 footer. Compare that to a guy like Dirk who was a great finisher, a mid-range assassin, and he regularly shot in the high 30s and low 40s from 3, while also getting to the line 7-8 times a game.

He was horrible for a number of reasons, but 35% from a seven footer is great numbers.

35% isn't great from a player who is supposed to be a shooting specialist that cannot do much else...and it's not like he was that efficient from inside the arc as well. Heck, Barnes shot 34% from 3 in 2024 despite being a relatively poor shooter.

In the same period, Mehmet Okur was a 7 foot shooter who shot 38%, 39%, 45%, and 39% from 3 in his prime between 2007-2010.

Rasheed Wallace was 6'10 and had similar 3 point percentages to Bargs, but he was extremely efficient inside, and was one of the best defenders in the league.

That list, like now is really, really small at that height. You'll find lots of 6'9", 6'10" guys in that range. Not many at 7ft.

[TheGeneral99]

He was horrible for a number of reasons, but 35% from a seven footer is great numbers.

35% isn't great from a player who is supposed to be a shooting specialist that cannot do much else...and it's not like he was that efficient from inside the arc as well. Heck, Barnes shot 34% from 3 in 2024 despite being a relatively poor shooter.

In the same period, Mehmet Okur was a 7 foot shooter who shot 38%, 39%, 45%, and 39% from 3 in his prime between 2007-2010.

Rasheed Wallace was 6'10 and had similar 3 point percentages to Bargs, but he was extremely efficient inside, and was one of the best defenders in the league.

That list, like now is really, really small at that height. You'll find lots of 6'9", 6'10" guys in that range. Not many at 7ft.

Okay, but what does it matter if he sucks at everything else?

Usually 7 footers are supposed to be good interior defenders, rebounders, shot blockers and post-up players...Bargs had none of that. He was drafted a shooting specialist and was supposed to be a Dirk-type player.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

35% isn't great from a player who is supposed to be a shooting specialist that cannot do much else...and it's not like he was that efficient from inside the arc as well. Heck, Barnes shot 34% from 3 in 2024 despite being a relatively poor shooter.

In the same period, Mehmet Okur was a 7 foot shooter who shot 38%, 39%, 45%, and 39% from 3 in his prime between 2007-2010.

Rasheed Wallace was 6'10 and had similar 3 point percentages to Bargs, but he was extremely efficient inside, and was one of the best defenders in the league.

That list, like now is really, really small at that height. You'll find lots of 6'9", 6'10" guys in that range. Not many at 7ft.

Okay, but what does it matter if he sucks at everything else?

Usually 7 footers are supposed to be good interior defenders, rebounders, shot blockers and post-up players...Bargs had none of that. He was drafted a shooting specialist and was supposed to be a Dirk-type player.

It's effectively a really high percentage shot, that isn't going to get blocked. Why wouldn't you want that.

[TheGeneral99]

That list, like now is really, really small at that height. You'll find lots of 6'9", 6'10" guys in that range. Not many at 7ft.

Okay, but what does it matter if he sucks at everything else?

Usually 7 footers are supposed to be good interior defenders, rebounders, shot blockers and post-up players...Bargs had none of that. He was drafted a shooting specialist and was supposed to be a Dirk-type player.

It's effectively a really high percentage shot, that isn't going to get blocked. Why wouldn't you want that.

I've already said here that Bargs in his prime was best suited as a 6th man so it's not like I don't think he has some utility...but do I want a guy like that as my starter on a playoff team? No. And again, as the #1 option Bargs shot 30% in both 2012 and 2013 so it's not like he consistently stayed at the 35% mark.

We had an old 35 year old Marc Gasol past his prime averaging 8ppg but he shot nearly 40% from 3 and was still an elite defender...even at his age as a 4th or 5th option, he was leaps more valuable than prime Bargs.

[LarSiN]

Bargnani was the ROY runner-up, and was 3rd in Center balloting for an All-star team in his 3 or 4th season.

Bargs had high potential and alot of people on this board thought he could be a star in the early years. He regressed. Let's hope Barnes improves. The comparison isn't that crazy IMO.

I wouldn't read too much into pre-season numbers.

Bargnani was always atrocious defensively and a horrendously poor rebounder for his size. Yeah he was okay his first 2 years because he was used more as a role player behind bigs like Bosh and Rasho.

When Bosh left, his scoring output went up simply due to higher volume, but he had almost zero impact on winning. We won 20, 22 and 23 games with Bargnani at the helm in a weak Eastern Conference between 2010 and 2012. You look at every advanced stat during that period and Bargnani was terrible. It was actually Amir Johnson and Jose that led the team in WS, VORP and RPM in those years. Even in terms of scoring Bargnani was overrated. He was skilled, but didn't use his body properly, wasn't aggressive, and didn't shoot that well from deep for a guy known as a "shooter."

His best statistical season was in 2011 where he averaged 21ppg and 5rpg on 44%fg and 35%3fg...not very good for a 7 footer that is so bad defensively.

Yes, Bargs' scoring went up after Bosh left and similarly Barnes' scoring went up after Siakam left. More eerie similarities...

• Both contributes primarily on one side - Bargs on offense and Barnes on defense - while being a liability on other side;
• Both were drafted higher than expected and the guy who drafted him (Colangelo for Bargs & Masai for Barnes) anointed him a franchise level player and traded away the lead guy (Bosh & Siakam) to put them (Bargs & Barnes) at the helm that ended up backfiring;
• Both can be consider "enigmas" in a sense that Bargs is a C/PF relied up for rebounding but very bad at it, and Barnes is a SF/PF relied upon for shooting but very bad at it;
• Both were awarded a contract extension that was the largest of its kind at the time for the Raptors, and then debated as to its worthiness.

To be clear, Barnes is still overall the better player but it does seem like an uncanny deja vu. If you were to merge the 2 enigmas, Bargs on offense and Barnes on defense, you'd have a pretty good player.

How is a guy who's averaged 20PPG the past 2 seasons a "liability on offense"? You lost me

[Clutch0z24]

Im down with trading Barnes if you can get something really good....Good player just not a franchise player we all hoped for....If you can fool a GM to give up a good package for him thinking they can make him a franchise player still go and do it now while you can...I think CMB will eventually be the same level player Scottie is which is a high level role player for way less money....

If you can turn Barnes into a High level prospect PG like Maxey or something and a few future 1sts id do the trade.

[TheGeneral99]

Im down with trading Barnes if you can get something really good....Good player just not a franchise player we all hoped for....If you can fool a GM to give up a good package for him thinking they can make him a franchise player still go and do it now while you can...I think CMB will eventually be the same level player Scottie is which is a high level role player for way less money....

If you can turn Barnes into a High level prospect PG like Maxey or something and a few future 1sts id do the trade.

It's funny because when we drafted Barnes in 2021 nobody expected him to be a franchise player, they expected him to be what he is now, which is a very good defender and facilitator, but with offensive limitations (similar to Draymond).

The issue was that Barnes blew all expectations out of the water his rookie season and showed glimpses that he had the capability of becoming a very good scorer. The expectations grew with his 2024 season and all-star campaign where he shot well from 3. The frustration has been that he hasn't seemed to progress as fast as we hoped given how strong he was a rookie.

[CPT]

Bargnani was always atrocious defensively and a horrendously poor rebounder for his size. Yeah he was okay his first 2 years because he was used more as a role player behind bigs like Bosh and Rasho.

When Bosh left, his scoring output went up simply due to higher volume, but he had almost zero impact on winning. We won 20, 22 and 23 games with Bargnani at the helm in a weak Eastern Conference between 2010 and 2012. You look at every advanced stat during that period and Bargnani was terrible. It was actually Amir Johnson and Jose that led the team in WS, VORP and RPM in those years. Even in terms of scoring Bargnani was overrated. He was skilled, but didn't use his body properly, wasn't aggressive, and didn't shoot that well from deep for a guy known as a "shooter."

His best statistical season was in 2011 where he averaged 21ppg and 5rpg on 44%fg and 35%3fg...not very good for a 7 footer that is so bad defensively.

Yes, Bargs' scoring went up after Bosh left and similarly Barnes' scoring went up after Siakam left. More eerie similarities...

• Both contributes primarily on one side - Bargs on offense and Barnes on defense - while being a liability on other side;
• Both were drafted higher than expected and the guy who drafted him (Colangelo for Bargs & Masai for Barnes) anointed him a franchise level player and traded away the lead guy (Bosh & Siakam) to put them (Bargs & Barnes) at the helm that ended up backfiring;
• Both can be consider "enigmas" in a sense that Bargs is a C/PF relied up for rebounding but very bad at it, and Barnes is a SF/PF relied upon for shooting but very bad at it;
• Both were awarded a contract extension that was the largest of its kind at the time for the Raptors, and then debated as to its worthiness.

To be clear, Barnes is still overall the better player but it does seem like an uncanny deja vu. If you were to merge the 2 enigmas, Bargs on offense and Barnes on defense, you'd have a pretty good player.

How is a guy who's averaged 20PPG the past 2 seasons a "liability on offense"? You lost me

Basketball teams are going to score points.

Scottie is very bad at it.

Our team is also very bad, so he did it enough times to get to 20 ppg.

[CPT]

Im down with trading Barnes if you can get something really good....Good player just not a franchise player we all hoped for....If you can fool a GM to give up a good package for him thinking they can make him a franchise player still go and do it now while you can...I think CMB will eventually be the same level player Scottie is which is a high level role player for way less money....

If you can turn Barnes into a High level prospect PG like Maxey or something and a few future 1sts id do the trade.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but if there’s a Scottie/Maxey trade, I don’t think we’re the ones getting the picks.

[CPT]

Bargnani was always atrocious defensively and a horrendously poor rebounder for his size. Yeah he was okay his first 2 years because he was used more as a role player behind bigs like Bosh and Rasho.

When Bosh left, his scoring output went up simply due to higher volume, but he had almost zero impact on winning. We won 20, 22 and 23 games with Bargnani at the helm in a weak Eastern Conference between 2010 and 2012. You look at every advanced stat during that period and Bargnani was terrible. It was actually Amir Johnson and Jose that led the team in WS, VORP and RPM in those years. Even in terms of scoring Bargnani was overrated. He was skilled, but didn't use his body properly, wasn't aggressive, and didn't shoot that well from deep for a guy known as a "shooter."

His best statistical season was in 2011 where he averaged 21ppg and 5rpg on 44%fg and 35%3fg...not very good for a 7 footer that is so bad defensively.

That doesn't sound familiar? Looked good as a role player playing off stars, then when he was given the keys , not so much... not agressive, doesn't use his body or strength correctly... themore im reading what you're saying the more in the back of my mind im saying "uh oh..."

Noone is saying they play similar or have similar strengths and weaknesses. You're focusing on the wrong things.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Big difference between Bargnani and Barnes - Barnes is a positive contributor even if he's not shooting well, he has very positive advanced stats in WS, VORP, and RPM. Barnes right now is probably the ideal 3rd option on a championship contender whereas Bargnani never was near being a true 3rd option on a championship contender.

I look at it like this: In his prime Bargnani was ideally a good 6th man that could give you some decent offense, but he was not a positive contributor that you could rely on for heavy minutes. However, Barnes even with his limitations is a borderline all-star and legitimate top 30-40 player in the league.

The fear with Barnes is whether he can reach the next level offensively, but I don't think anyone here doubts that he is a very, very good player. He's a great finisher around the basket, he's great defensively, very versatile, a good passer, a great rebounder for his height, and a net positive all around. The question is whether Barnes will be an Iggy type of player, or can he progress to the next level and become a legit top 15-20 player.

Does he? I don’t think they’re bad, but they’ve never looked that good to me either. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places/at the wrong ones.

I’m not entertaining this ridiculous Bargnani discussion btw, so if it’s just that they are better than his… well, sure.

[Clutch0z24]

Im down with trading Barnes if you can get something really good....Good player just not a franchise player we all hoped for....If you can fool a GM to give up a good package for him thinking they can make him a franchise player still go and do it now while you can...I think CMB will eventually be the same level player Scottie is which is a high level role player for way less money....

If you can turn Barnes into a High level prospect PG like Maxey or something and a few future 1sts id do the trade.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but if there’s a Scottie/Maxey trade, we’re not the ones getting the picks.

Not saying that deal particular i brought up Maxey as a sim player we could go after that style....We need a dynamic PG....IQ is not a true PG and we been missing a PG general since Lowry.....Use Barnes to find that type of player would be my goal....