Bulls vs Wolves 7pm CT

[Jcool0]

:dontknow: Buz looks like a 2026 all-star to me. He might get the Franz "I deserve it but won't get it cause I'm too young" treatment, but he looks legit.

Is it controversial to say that Buzelis is a significantly better prospect than Wagner? It shouldn’t be.

Only Bulls fans would say that

[MrSparkle]

:dontknow: Buz looks like a 2026 all-star to me. He might get the Franz "I deserve it but won't get it cause I'm too young" treatment, but he looks legit.

Is it controversial to say that Buzelis is a significantly better prospect than Wagner? It shouldn’t be.

Only Bulls fans would say that

Come on bro- Matas is gonna beat D. Rose for youngest MVP.

[coldfish]

:dontknow: Buz looks like a 2026 all-star to me. He might get the Franz "I deserve it but won't get it cause I'm too young" treatment, but he looks legit.

Is it controversial to say that Buzelis is a significantly better prospect than Wagner? It shouldn’t be.

Only Bulls fans would say that

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4566434/type/nba/year/2022/category/perGame
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4711294/matas-buzelis

Buzelis: 26.9mpg 46.7%fg 36.1%3p 83.3%ft 13.0p 4.8r 1.9a 1.1b 0.6s
Wagner: 26.9mpg 47.4%fg 32.8%3p 89.6%ft 13.8p 4.3r 2.8a 0.3b 0.8s

If you look at their post all star break numbers from their rookie year, they are objectively very close. Given Buzelis is a much better help defender than Wagner and Wagner never developed a 3p shot (sub 30% the last two years), I think its at least reasonable to say that he is the better prospect.

[othawhitemeat]

Is it controversial to say that Buzelis is a significantly better prospect than Wagner? It shouldn’t be.

Only Bulls fans would say that

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4566434/type/nba/year/2022/category/perGame
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4711294/matas-buzelis

Buzelis: 26.9mpg 46.7%fg 36.1%3p 83.3%ft 13.0p 4.8r 1.9a 1.1b 0.6s
Wagner: 26.9mpg 47.4%fg 32.8%3p 89.6%ft 13.8p 4.3r 2.8a 0.3b 0.8s

If you look at their post all star break numbers from their rookie year, they are objectively very close. Given Buzelis is a much better help defender than Wagner and Wagner never developed a 3p shot (sub 30% the last two years), I think its at least reasonable to say that he is the better prospect.

Plus Buz is a way smoother athlete.

[dougthonus]

Is it controversial to say that Buzelis is a significantly better prospect than Wagner? It shouldn’t be.

Only Bulls fans would say that

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4566434/type/nba/year/2022/category/perGame
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4711294/matas-buzelis

Buzelis: 26.9mpg 46.7%fg 36.1%3p 83.3%ft 13.0p 4.8r 1.9a 1.1b 0.6s
Wagner: 26.9mpg 47.4%fg 32.8%3p 89.6%ft 13.8p 4.3r 2.8a 0.3b 0.8s

If you look at their post all star break numbers from their rookie year, they are objectively very close. Given Buzelis is a much better help defender than Wagner and Wagner never developed a 3p shot (sub 30% the last two years), I think its at least reasonable to say that he is the better prospect.

While I definitely think you could make a case for Matas being better as a prospect, there is a pretty wide gap between the the statements "You could make a reasonable case for Matas" and "Matas is significantly better".


FWIW, your sample size is also a small segment of the season and Matas was well above his season average in that segment and Franz was well below, so a bit unfair to then say if you look at Matas's best part of his season and Franz's worst, then they were similar.

Either way, after their rookie years, I would probably have leaned Franz, but I can definitely see the case for Matas. Mixing in what we know about Franz today (that the shot never came around), I'd probably take Matas's upside of putting it all together.

[sco]

Only Bulls fans would say that

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4566434/type/nba/year/2022/category/perGame
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4711294/matas-buzelis

Buzelis: 26.9mpg 46.7%fg 36.1%3p 83.3%ft 13.0p 4.8r 1.9a 1.1b 0.6s
Wagner: 26.9mpg 47.4%fg 32.8%3p 89.6%ft 13.8p 4.3r 2.8a 0.3b 0.8s

If you look at their post all star break numbers from their rookie year, they are objectively very close. Given Buzelis is a much better help defender than Wagner and Wagner never developed a 3p shot (sub 30% the last two years), I think its at least reasonable to say that he is the better prospect.

While I definitely think you could make a case for Matas being better as a prospect, there is a pretty wide gap between the the statements "You could make a reasonable case for Matas" and "Matas is significantly better".


FWIW, your sample size is also a small segment of the season and Matas was well above his season average in that segment and Franz was well below, so a bit unfair to then say if you look at Matas's best part of his season and Franz's worst, then they were similar.

Either way, after their rookie years, I would probably have leaned Franz, but I can definitely see the case for Matas. Mixing in what we know about Franz today (that the shot never came around), I'd probably take Matas's upside of putting it all together.

While I do see some similarities in their games, I still hate comping guys along racial lines. To think if not for the Vuc debacle, we might have gotten both guys.

I still like the Matas comp to Tatum. What I like about both Tatum and Wagner is that both guys essentially play the SF game, with more ball handling and less post game.

I think about the mindset comparison between Matas and PWill, it is so different. Matas has a surprising swagger about him and it leads him to push himself. When he's on the floor, he's fearless attacking on both ends. His shot blocking prowess has been the biggest surprise since his arrival. With another non-contending season ahead of us, I'll be optimistic that we'll be happy with Matas' improving play to watch all season.

[KissedByaRose1]

Is that the best preseason win we've had in 25 years? Matas is real, this is actually happening. Team is so much more fun to watch right now. Hammer the over, we are SO back.

Buzelis needs a nickname ASAP.

[Red Larrivee]

If the Bulls leave this season with Buzelis and Giddey playing as well as they have been post-ASB and in preseason, the future looks a lot better.

[Red Larrivee]

small sample size and the games don't count but vucevic is genuinely playing at a "should not be on a roster" level in preseason

He shouldn't be on this roster. I don't know how much more clear that can be.

But if he is, he shouldn't start. This team doesn't have the horses any more to cover up for his deficiencies on defense. I'm sure he will play harder next week, but that's not saying much. He just looks very out of place with the current group. And bad.

[dougthonus]

While I do see some similarities in their games, I still hate comping guys along racial lines.

Haha, I compare them more because I followed Wagner much more than most prospects due to the trade. They do seem highly similar to me though in that they're big SFs with ball handling, mechanics, strong foundations, and the promise of a shot that hasn't delivered yet. Franz being a bit more polished offensively while Matas being a bit more polished defensively.

Tatum seemed much more like an elite prospect than either Matas or Franz.

[sco]

small sample size and the games don't count but vucevic is genuinely playing at a "should not be on a roster" level in preseason

He shouldn't be on this roster. I don't know how much more clear that can be.

But if he is, he shouldn't start. This team doesn't have the horses any more to cover up for his deficiencies on defense. I'm sure he will play harder next week, but that's not saying much. He just looks very out of place with the current group. And bad.

And beyond his defense, the fact that he needs to be fed the ball to be at all useful on offense takes away from Matas' taking a larger role. I'd even prefer Pwill as our starting C.

[sco]

While I do see some similarities in their games, I still hate comping guys along racial lines.

Haha, I compare them more because I followed Wagner much more than most prospects due to the trade. They do seem highly similar to me though in that they're big SFs with ball handling, mechanics, strong foundations, and the promise of a shot that hasn't delivered yet. Franz being a bit more polished offensively while Matas being a bit more polished defensively.

Tatum seemed much more like an elite prospect than either Matas or Franz.

No I get it. I'm a UofM fan. Franz came into the league with a great handle and ability to finish at the rim and passing ability. He also has great hands on steals. He lacked (and still lacks) a reliable 3pt shot, which is all that keeps him from being truly elite.

[MrSparkle]

Speaking of both Tatum and Franz… both seem(ed) underrated on their rookie contracts. People refused to acknowledge Tatum’s MVP ceiling. Meanwhile, I’m like “Hello? Do you know how hard it is to win deep playoff games as a 19-21yo?” He had a strong team but the starter health was consistently obliterated and he ended up being the #1 option.

Franz too. What a great player. He’s been the main force in really ruining AK’s trade (let’s be honest; we wouldn’t care as much if the final result was Jett Howard and James Bouknight). But also, he’s consistently done it all (D, playmaking, rebounding, scoring) at a high level, and on the verge of a huge season. Magic have a good shot at #1 seed imo.

Matas needs to be the driving force in making the Bulls a playoff team. He can do it but I wouldn’t jump the gun. Tatum and Franz were ahead as rookies, if for no other reason than Billy icing him too long. They had #1 responsibilities and made the best of them. Matas is gonna be a late option here until he somehow takes the reigns.

[DuckIII]

:dontknow: Buz looks like a 2026 all-star to me. He might get the Franz "I deserve it but won't get it cause I'm too young" treatment, but he looks legit.

Is it controversial to say that Buzelis is a significantly better prospect than Wagner? It shouldn’t be.

Only Bulls fans would say that

You may be onto something. I am a Bulls fan. And I did say it.

[drosestruts]

I'm excited and optimistic about the season

yet, i didn't catch a single pre-season game. Seemed like games were consistently on tuesdays and thursdays which are nights i'm often busy.

Time to figure out this CHSN thing, excited to watch and discuss some Bulls basketball with you all again

[Red8911]

Jalen Smith playing well at the 4 is something to look at, Billy could and should use him there more often.. Push PWill to the end of the bench.

Philips with 17 pts is a positive sign for him.

Carter had double figures in every pre season game. It’s his contract year, maybe he is better this season.

Terry looked good last night was all over the place defensively.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Matas is a better shooter and more agile than Franz. He has a chance of being the better player.

[Chi town]

small sample size and the games don't count but vucevic is genuinely playing at a "should not be on a roster" level in preseason

He shouldn't be on this roster. I don't know how much more clear that can be.

But if he is, he shouldn't start. This team doesn't have the horses any more to cover up for his deficiencies on defense. I'm sure he will play harder next week, but that's not saying much. He just looks very out of place with the current group. And bad.

I like a 20 20 8 split for our C’s. Play fast and make them all run and go all out on the boards.

[Chi town]

Matas is a better shooter and more agile than Franz. He has a chance of being the better player.

I think Buz is going to become an elite shooter on high volume. Movement and off the bounce.

[coldfish]

Only Bulls fans would say that

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4566434/type/nba/year/2022/category/perGame
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4711294/matas-buzelis

Buzelis: 26.9mpg 46.7%fg 36.1%3p 83.3%ft 13.0p 4.8r 1.9a 1.1b 0.6s
Wagner: 26.9mpg 47.4%fg 32.8%3p 89.6%ft 13.8p 4.3r 2.8a 0.3b 0.8s

If you look at their post all star break numbers from their rookie year, they are objectively very close. Given Buzelis is a much better help defender than Wagner and Wagner never developed a 3p shot (sub 30% the last two years), I think its at least reasonable to say that he is the better prospect.

While I definitely think you could make a case for Matas being better as a prospect, there is a pretty wide gap between the the statements "You could make a reasonable case for Matas" and "Matas is significantly better".


FWIW, your sample size is also a small segment of the season and Matas was well above his season average in that segment and Franz was well below, so a bit unfair to then say if you look at Matas's best part of his season and Franz's worst, then they were similar.

Either way, after their rookie years, I would probably have leaned Franz, but I can definitely see the case for Matas. Mixing in what we know about Franz today (that the shot never came around), I'd probably take Matas's upside of putting it all together.

Franz's whole season averages for his rookie year weren't much different than his post ASB numbers. He played a few more minutes per game pre all star break which helped his scoring a tad but his per minute numbers were actually better post ASB.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/4566434/type/nba/year/2022/category/per48

I mean, if we are going to argue semantics Franz's numbers weren't "well below".