Brewers/Dodgers NLCS - Game 4 Friday - 7:38PM CST

[ReasonablySober]

There isn't an amount of money Mark could spend that would have made a difference in this series. Big spending on free agency in MLB is dumb. Always has been, always will be.

[MickeyDavis]

I don't think anyone is advocating or expecting big money spending. But a reasonable increase could certainly make the team better. A payroll that is basically where it was in 2015 while having great attendance and the value of the franchise about $1.5 billion higher doesn't sit well.

Increasing payroll doesn't automatically mean free agent spending. It can mean trading one or two of the cheap guys for more proven and yes more expensive guys.

[th87]

We've scored 2.7 runs per game in our last 23 playoff games. That includes two games where we scored 7 runs and one game where we scored 9 runs. If you take away those 3 games the other 20 games we've averaged 1.95 runs per game.

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[coolhandluke121]

There isn't an amount of money Mark could spend that would have made a difference in this series. Big spending on free agency in MLB is dumb. Always has been, always will be.

There is some truth to that. There are also multiple over-spenders who flail away nearly every year and are usually worse than the Brewers. The arbitration/team control is actually just as effed up as the lack of a salary cap, at least in terms of how unfair it is to young players, and it works in Milwaukee's favor. BIg market teams have a ton of pressure to overspend, and they don't have leeway to trade established stars for cheap talent under team control.

Good scouting and management is more important than a huge payroll, but obviously it's really hard to beat a team like the Dodgers that has both (and knows how to draft and develop besides).

[MVP2110]

I don't think anyone is advocating or expecting big money spending. But a reasonable increase could certainly make the team better. A payroll that is basically where it was in 2015 while having great attendance and the value of the franchise about $1.5 billion higher doesn't sit well.

Increasing payroll doesn't automatically mean free agent spending. It can mean trading one or two of the cheap guys for more proven and yes more expensive guys.

This is almost always a bad strategy in MLB. Part of the reason the Brewers are as good as they are is because they dont do this often

[jakecronus8]

Boggles my mind that people will continuously blame Attanasio when this is clearly a baseball as a whole infrastructure issue.

Fully in on a year plus work stoppage to change the game if that's what it takes.

[MickeyDavis]

I don't think anyone is advocating or expecting big money spending. But a reasonable increase could certainly make the team better. A payroll that is basically where it was in 2015 while having great attendance and the value of the franchise about $1.5 billion higher doesn't sit well.

Increasing payroll doesn't automatically mean free agent spending. It can mean trading one or two of the cheap guys for more proven and yes more expensive guys.

This is almost always a bad strategy in MLB. Part of the reason the Brewers are as good as they are is because they dont do this often

I'm not saying you do it on a regular basis but if our minor leaguers are as good as they people say they are then trading Turang, Contreras and/or Frelick would be the right move within the next year or so. Or spending some money to extend some guys and trade the minor leaguers. That's how we got Yelich. Or Hopefully those kids can take the next step. We'll see. It's not crazy to think spending a reasonable amount of money could make the team better.

[MickeyDavis]

Boggles my mind that people will continuously blame Attanasio when this is clearly a baseball as a whole infrastructure issue.

Fully in on a year plus work stoppage to change the game if that's what it takes.

We all see the bigger picture and want the MLB salary structure reformed. But some of us also see a flat payroll over the last 10 years and think spending a little more could improve the team. Both can be true. Obviously there are no guarantees. Just as there are no guarantees that our current minor leaguers will be good major leaguers.

[ReasonablySober]

I don't think anyone is advocating or expecting big money spending. But a reasonable increase could certainly make the team better. A payroll that is basically where it was in 2015 while having great attendance and the value of the franchise about $1.5 billion higher doesn't sit well.

Increasing payroll doesn't automatically mean free agent spending. It can mean trading one or two of the cheap guys for more proven and yes more expensive guys.

This is almost always a bad strategy in MLB. Part of the reason the Brewers are as good as they are is because they dont do this often

I'm not saying you do it on a regular basis but if our minor leaguers are as good as they people say they are then trading Turang, Contreras and/or Frelick would be the right move within the next year or so. Or spending some money to extend some guys and trade the minor leaguers. That's how we got Yelich. Or Hopefully those kids can take the next step. We'll see. It's not crazy to think spending a reasonable amount of money could make the team better.

This is for sure the route they're going to take. Losing Turang and Bill will sting, but thankfully we'll already have had them for their primes (though I think Turang's game will age nicely). As long as they're healthy the Brewers should be able to get really nice young MLB ready talent.

The #1 priority in terms of spending is going to have to be signing Made, Pratt, and Pena to long term deals.

[Ron Swanson]

What an absolutely pathetic way for this team to go out. I think we all talked plenty about how "just 2-3 games of cold bats can do you in", but this level (6-straight games?) of historical offensive ineptitude is just so demoralizing. This team has zero fight right in them right now and it's rough to watch.

But yes, this about as good of a run as we can ever expect, and it's dumb luck/misfortune that the two best teams of this era (2018 and now) had to run up against the same franchise that's allowed to buy their way to a World Series each time in the NLCS. Of course the league and national media won't care, because they're actively complicit in all this. Could you imagine if Adam Silver were allowed to abolish the salary cap in basketball and just funnel every superstar player to the Lakers? Yeah, he probably creams himself fantasizing about it every night, and that's baseball in a nutshell.

[JimmyTheKid]

So... open with Ashby tonight because Shohei is a lefty?

Its just the stupidest f***ing thing ever other than this offense forgetting how to hit.

[Thunder Muscle]

This is almost always a bad strategy in MLB. Part of the reason the Brewers are as good as they are is because they dont do this often

I'm not saying you do it on a regular basis but if our minor leaguers are as good as they people say they are then trading Turang, Contreras and/or Frelick would be the right move within the next year or so. Or spending some money to extend some guys and trade the minor leaguers. That's how we got Yelich. Or Hopefully those kids can take the next step. We'll see. It's not crazy to think spending a reasonable amount of money could make the team better.

This is for sure the route they're going to take. Losing Turang and Bill will sting, but thankfully we'll already have had them for their primes (though I think Turang's game will age nicely). As long as they're healthy the Brewers should be able to get really nice young MLB ready talent.

The #1 priority in terms of spending is going to have to be signing Made, Pratt, and Pena to long term deals.

I know if sign long term you can still trade, but aren’t Pratt, Pena, Made all middle infielders? Plus there is a chance Turang sticks long term as he is only going to be 26 into next season and do feel he has a chance at a long career. Just feel something has to give. And also have Fischer and Wilken as possible 3B options in the very near future too. And obviously the chances sone of these guys flame out is a possibility too.

Is Adams a 3B as well?

[th87]

Expecting the Brewers to get like 5 runs today.

While the Dodgers get 11.

[paulpressey25]

Boggles my mind that people will continuously blame Attanasio when this is clearly a baseball as a whole infrastructure issue.

Fully in on a year plus work stoppage to change the game if that's what it takes.

We all see the bigger picture and want the MLB salary structure reformed. But some of us also see a flat payroll over the last 10 years and think spending a little more could improve the team. Both can be true. Obviously there are no guarantees. Just as there are no guarantees that our current minor leaguers will be good major leaguers.

Is this chart accurate? Been seeing it tossed around nonstop by Dodger fans.

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[VooDoo7]

As if getting bounced so quickly doesn't suck enough, it also means the Dodgers will be well-rested while SEA and TOR are battling it out in their series.

[Thunder Muscle]

Boggles my mind that people will continuously blame Attanasio when this is clearly a baseball as a whole infrastructure issue.

Fully in on a year plus work stoppage to change the game if that's what it takes.

We all see the bigger picture and want the MLB salary structure reformed. But some of us also see a flat payroll over the last 10 years and think spending a little more could improve the team. Both can be true. Obviously there are no guarantees. Just as there are no guarantees that our current minor leaguers will be good major leaguers.

Is this chart accurate? Been seeing it tossed around nonstop by Dodger fans.

Read on Twitter

I been seeing that in recent weeks too and don’t believe it is completely painting the whole picture. It shows the revenue but don’t believe it is subtracting the operating expenses. If it were “profit” and not “revenue” then I think we should irate. But I thought the net operating income for 2024 was 24M.

[MVP2110]

Boggles my mind that people will continuously blame Attanasio when this is clearly a baseball as a whole infrastructure issue.

Fully in on a year plus work stoppage to change the game if that's what it takes.

We all see the bigger picture and want the MLB salary structure reformed. But some of us also see a flat payroll over the last 10 years and think spending a little more could improve the team. Both can be true. Obviously there are no guarantees. Just as there are no guarantees that our current minor leaguers will be good major leaguers.

Is this chart accurate? Been seeing it tossed around nonstop by Dodger fans.

Read on Twitter

The numbers are kind of different depending on what you count towards payroll(ex. Does deferred money count now or in the future)

But this also misses key context like non payroll expenses. For an accurate picture we would need to know what every teams profit actually is. Even in this example the Dodgers payroll is over $200 million more than the Brewers revenue

[Thunder Muscle]

Assuming the website data is correct, from 2021-2024 we are +28M/year average operating income.

So essentially instead of signing Adames (for example) and breaking even, we opted to keep operating well enough in the green.

[MickeyDavis]

I started a general salary cap discussion in the ATL thread, discussing what a MLB salary cap may look like.

[coolhandluke121]

I don't think anyone is advocating or expecting big money spending. But a reasonable increase could certainly make the team better. A payroll that is basically where it was in 2015 while having great attendance and the value of the franchise about $1.5 billion higher doesn't sit well.

Increasing payroll doesn't automatically mean free agent spending. It can mean trading one or two of the cheap guys for more proven and yes more expensive guys.

This is almost always a bad strategy in MLB. Part of the reason the Brewers are as good as they are is because they dont do this often

I'm not saying you do it on a regular basis but if our minor leaguers are as good as they people say they are then trading Turang, Contreras and/or Frelick would be the right move within the next year or so. Or spending some money to extend some guys and trade the minor leaguers. That's how we got Yelich. Or Hopefully those kids can take the next step. We'll see. It's not crazy to think spending a reasonable amount of money could make the team better.

This is a textbook case of "both can be true." It's a bad team-building strategy to trade away young, controllable talent, and a low payroll is justifiable IF you just have so many young players under team control that you're not even sure where you NEED a more expensive upgrade. BUT when you have an obvious hole or two on a clear inner-circle contender, part of not being cheap means being willing to trade young players.

I don't blame them for not spending much in free agency - none of us knew they would be the best Brewers team ever - but I think it's fair to blame them for not being willing to trade prospects. Prospects are basically commodified as "surplus value" correlated with their remaining years under team control, so not being willing to trade them can become a different form of being cheap.

When I proposed trading Pratt or Pena with other prospects for someone like Abrams or Perdomo, nobody really supported it because of prospect-hugging. It's wise to be reluctant under normal circumstances, but SS was such a glaring need and this year was such a great opportunity to chase a title that it would have been more than justifiable under the circumstances. Abrams or Perdomo would make a lot more than Pratt or Pena and then would be free agents much sooner, but this was the year to make a win-now move like that. You can go back to trading away guys like Contreras, Freddy, Megill, Turang, and Sal once you've faded as contenders again, and you can still draft and develop.